Topaz Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 In my view, this is not Canada's war its Harper's and the 141 Tories MPs that voted for it and the one former Liberal MP Andrews that voted for bombing Syria and not all Tory MPs showed up to vote. What ever happens over there good or bad, Harper will get the credit or take a beating from the rest of Canadians. I guess the only way to change this is to vote the Tories down to second or third place or out the door in the next election. There's been over 220,000 people die in Syria and how many more will die in the bombing of the country? Quote
Rue Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) You got one thing right Eye-I believe if someone sits and hides and tries to appease ISIL or any other terrorist that empowers the terrorists and so I totally disagree with people like you or Moonlight Graham who argue appeasement and non reaction. You have used that same twisted thought process in the other thread to me saying if we criticize women for covering their faces with niqabs this will radicalize Muslims in Canada. Now you and Moonlight and others use the argument if we fight ISIL it will empower them. What nonsense. Go on then go hide under the bed. You speak that way because you have never had to live in a country with terrorists and witness what they have done. You speak from a silver spoon, a privileged vantage point where you want to block out anything evil in the world thinking if he does it magically disappears. Yah I get the logic. ISIL is only bad when Canadians shoot at them. Otherwise they would be just swell. Its not our problem-let those people settle it over there, you know over there. Let them kill each other in their neighbourhood, not yours. Oh I got it. You ooze bigotry, smugness, and this sense of superiority only you drape it in a flag of liberal progressivism. Let me try explain it to you. I am saying it provocatively to challenge you. I was born in this country. Oh I heard many stories of the horrors my family went through to get here. I heard stories from war vets as to the sacrifices their comrades made. It meant something. It meant Canada and what it offers me came at a very dear price, the price of lives killed,maimed, damaged. I got that, but I did not really get it until I started travelling. Guatamela, Haiti,Morrocco, Gaza, West Bank, Syria, Lebanon, not just Israel, those are justs some countries I witnessed death from terrorism. Its a slap. Its a slap in the face. It doesn't make me a war monger . It does make me understand a little bit why Romeo D'Allaires had a break down. It makes me understand a little why soldiers,police,emergency victims, trauma victims get that certain look in their eye forever and they never have to say a thing-their silence says it all. Terrorism is not something that goes away when you ignore it. Its not some other guy's problem. Terrorism is about doing nothing.Its about sitting back in Canada in a sheltered environment while people are slaughtered en masse.Once you have seen dead bodies whether it be in Sudan, the hills up in Haiti,a corn field in Guataemala, a street corner in Jerusalem, a burning body with a tire necklace around its neck in Gaza, it changes you. Its why people like me are so intense, not angry. We have no emotions, just intensity, an intensity of calm, nothingness, sheer nothingness because we know the only thing that stops terrorists is killing them. This is not about boy scouts. Its about states that fail and break down. Its about human beings who revert to primal ape pack behaviour and rape, cannibalize, engage in every social taboo there is. Its not just about someone with a black flag chanting the Koran-its about breakdown of humans with no rules. You want to sit smug as a rug in Canada and adapt this position the boogy man will go away? Tell me. Did it ever dawn on you that the very Muslims you claim to be tolerant of are dying? They die daily because of terrorists. Yah I get it. If it weren't or the colonialist imperialist Zionist Americans none of this would have happened. It was all swell and oh so harmonic until whitey showed up. Got it. Only it aint true. The blood was spilling long before any white boy got shot dead. Sure British, French, Germans exasperated matters during and after WW2 but the fact is in the area exploding now has been that way since we started walking on two legs. I wouldn't' worry though. You just carry on and hang out in mama's basement and at MacDonald's and when you see something bad on the news, change it to a rerun of Friends. Edited March 31, 2015 by Rue Quote
eyeball Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 I've never argued for appeasement, I've consistently said we should be arresting our war criminals and throwing them into the Hague. But people like you keep voting them into power so... Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Shady Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Possibly. But at least Obama had the brains to work through the UN with reference to article 51. I get it, so it's ok that Obama breaks international law in your mind, as long as he also tries to work through the UN. Whatever that means. Quote
Big Guy Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Posted March 31, 2015 Syria has about 150 anti aircraft missile sites. So if a Canadian airplane hits one of these then it is not an act of war? Or one of these Syrian missile sites takes out a Canadian airplane in Syrian space then that would not be an act of war? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Yes...and...yes. Let's see what happens....get some popcorn ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 I get it, so it's ok that Obama breaks international law in your mind, as long as he also tries to work through the UN. Whatever that means. There are legal niceties you may not understand. The Iraq government formally requested Obama for assistance from the US for protection against the ISIL threat to its borders. Obama took that to the UN under article 51. None of that has occurred with Harper, nor was there any attempt to seek authority from Assad. (whether you like him or not he is the president) Hence, we are breaking international law. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Disgraceful? ... Now me, I find it something I think is the result of a leader feeling he has a moral duty to stop terrorists. Disgraceful? Yes using your logic there is grace in allowing ISIS to kill and maim. . What leader might you be referencing, Rue? Have you heard of any attempts by said leader to stop the terrorist actions of the USA, which, I must point out vastly outnumber all the collective actions of all the usual suspect "terrorists". Quote
Shady Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 There are legal niceties you may not understand. The Iraq government formally requested Obama for assistance from the US for protection against the ISIL threat to its borders. Obama took that to the UN under article 51. None of that has occurred with Harper, nor was there any attempt to seek authority from Assad. (whether you like him or not he is the president) Hence, we are breaking international law.Not Iraq, Syria. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) You got one thing right Eye-I believe if someone sits and hides and tries to appease ISIL or any other terrorist that empowers the terrorists and so I totally disagree with people like you or Moonlight Graham who argue appeasement and non reaction."any other terrorist". Might that include the US, Rue, who, I've pointed out are far and away the greatest terrorist group on the planet. They have been such since long before they thought of using this latest boogeyman (terrorist). Since WWII the number of countries they have terrorized are large. The viciousness and brutality employed by the US in those terrorist ventures makes the usual suspects look like kindergarten teachers. You labor under the very common fallacy that the USA is, and has been a force for good. Nothing could be further from the truth. "[American leaders] are perhaps not so much immoral as they are amoral. It's not that they take pleasure in causing so much death and suffering. It's that they just don't care ... the same that could be said about a sociopath. As long as the death and suffering advance the agenda of the empire, as long as the right people and the right corporations gain wealth and power and privilege and prestige, as long as the death and suffering aren't happening to them or people close to them ... then they just don't care about it happening to other people, including the American soldiers whom they throw into wars and who come home-the ones who make it back alive-with Agent Orange or Gulf War Syndrome eating away at their bodies. American leaders would not be in the positions they hold if they were bothered by such things." William Blum. "humans with no rules." Your words, Rue. Terrorism is not something that goes away when you ignore it. Indeed it doesn't. But what have we all been doing for a good long time. Edited March 31, 2015 by Je suis Omar Quote
Je suis Omar Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Yes...and...yes. Let's see what happens....get some popcorn ! and a blanket and snuggle up on the couch while your government murders and maims. Are you really that comfortable with that, George? Quote
Shady Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Huh... Did Syria give permission to Obama to conduct airstrikes in Syria? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Did Syria give permission to Obama to conduct airstrikes in Syria? Nope, as I explained, Iraq asked the US for assistance to protect its borders under article 51 Quote
Shady Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Nope, as I explained, Iraq asked the US for assistance to protect its borders under article 51 And how does that apply to US airstrikes within Syria? Which was the entire point of this discussion. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Asking and permitting are two very different things. Syria Given Information About U.S.-Led Airstrikes Against ISIS: Assad The U.S.-led coalition battling ISIS militants is passing information about airstrikes to the Syrian regime through third parties including Iraq, according to President Bashar Assad. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/syria-given-information-about-u-s-led-airstrikes-against-isis-n303381 Canada may be at war IN Syria, but not WITH Syria. Your original post is factually incorrect, and misleading. As part of NATO, we are indeed at war with Syria. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 And how does that apply to US airstrikes within Syria? Which was the entire point of this discussion. Because those airstrikes are in support of the protection of Iraq, as requested by its government. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 and a blanket and snuggle up on the couch while your government murders and maims. Are you really that comfortable with that, George? Yes, Jesus, I am. You can forgive me later. Please send more dirty oil and uranium. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Because those airstrikes are in support of the protection of Iraq, as requested by its government. So the Iraqi government can authorize airstrikes in another country? What in the world are you talking about? Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) So the Iraqi government can authorize airstrikes in another country? What in the world are you talking about?Under Article 51.....Iraq and by proxy the US can "chase" ISIS into Syria to protect Iraq.......all sanctioned Apparently though Canada needs to separately apply for this get out of jail free card.......its all semantic.If a Syrian missle hits a Cdn plane......friendly fire or otherwise........hell's gonna be paid. Edited March 31, 2015 by Bob Macadoo Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 So the Iraqi government can authorize airstrikes in another country? What in the world are you talking about? No it cant, but it can seek assistance in protection from a threat. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Why is Canada the only other country doing airstrikes in Syria other than the US? If it were 2003 and Harper were PM, Canadian soldiers would be marching into Iraq. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Because Canadian voters knowingly elected a majority government with the balls to do so. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted April 1, 2015 Report Posted April 1, 2015 So the Iraqi government can authorize airstrikes in another country? What in the world are you talking about? Remove the shades from your face so you can read once in a while. Iraq asked the US for assistance in fighting ISIS , so that means Syria needs to be bombed back into the stone age after a devastating 4 year 'civil war' perpetuated by Russia and the US on opposite sides as the US used Turkey as a base of operations for the Free Syrian Army, which also seemed to have elements of Al=Queda and other terror groups that the US/Israel?Saudi Arabia on one side, while Russia/Iran/Syria on another side. Quote
dre Posted April 1, 2015 Report Posted April 1, 2015 Did Syria give permission to Obama to conduct airstrikes in Syria? I dont know but theres no questions that the Syrians, Iranians etc, are literally spoiling their panties with joy at the prospect of hapless western countries run by idiots like Obama and Harper taking out their enemies for them, and strengthening hardline Shia leaders in the Middle East. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
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