Canada and Syria at war

[Big Guy]

Would any Syrians living in Canada whose relatives are killed in Syria as "collateral damage" by Canadian fighters have grounds to retaliate?

[Rue]

Would any Syrians living in Canada whose relatives are killed in Syria as "collateral damage" by Canadian fighters have grounds to retaliate?

Where do you want to go with this?

Are you suggesting they retaliate against Canadians?

Is this some twisted attempt to justify terrorism against Canadians?

Edited April 1, 2015 by Rue

[Boges]

If the enemy aren't going to respect these Treaty of Versailles borders, why would we?

ISIS is Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. Why are we only going to fight them in Iraq IF!!!! we are going to fight them.

[Rue]

While ISIS describes itself as a state under international law it is not a state. Under international law it is simply a terrorist cell. A large one but none the less a cell that operates outside any laws international or domestic-they literally have a law to themselves.

So Boges of course they are international as well as domestic criminals. They sure as hell do not follow any treaties that you can be sure of and so as you suggest since they do not recognize any borders, its illogical to follow a set of conventions that assumes they do.

That's my way of say hell yah to you.

[Rue]

Iraq asked the US for assistance in fighting ISIS...

Ghost as a point of clarification The Iraqi Shiite leader the US under Obama placed in Iraq as its leader in fact never asked for US help against ISIS. He in fact turned on Obama no differently than Al Quaeda did in Iraq on him and then when ISIL broke off of Al Quaeda it turned on Obama.

Whether its been Sunni or Shiite extremists, both have turned on Obama ridiculing him.

This is precisely why he was warned by so many leaders especially Netantyahu not to ally with any extremists on either side. His refusal to heed the advise of Netanyahu is no different than what he was told by Britain, Germany, France, Canada, even China and India. He ignored them all.

India, China, Germany even Russia, have managed as tough as it has been to maintain relationships with BOTH Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Israel unlike Obama.

It is India, China, Russia, Germany who are now in the position behind the scenes keeping Iran-Hezbollah-Syria-Lebanon axis from full out war with the Morrocco-Saudi-Egypt-Israel-Kuwait-UE-Jordan alliance.

Obama lost all credibility years ago thinking he could play up to both Sunnis and Shiites posing himself as a closet Muslim Brotherhood member.

In the Muslim world, you don't play at being Muslim. You don't wink and grin and give the hand signal, appoint Muslim Brotherhood advisors, assist your half brother in Sudan, applaud and form alliances with Erdogan, Morsi, Hamas, then in the next breath after embracing the Muslim Brotherhood who stand for taking down traditional Sunni monarchies, then go running to Hezbollah and Iran.

That's what Obama did. Like Erdogan he tried to play one off the other. Syria bit Erdogan and Obama in the ass. So did Egypt when Morsi was thrown out.

Obama showed he is over his head. He can not comprehend Sunni Shiite politics. He can not comprehend, he just can't that Israel long before he came onto the scene, had unofficial relations with all Arab nations and when it fought terrorists always took pains never to deal directly in a way to humiliate either Iran or other host nations.

There was a game being played. Saudi Arabia played both sides of the fence for over 40 years. Obama hasn't a clue how its done. Putin yes, China, India, yes. In fact Britain was always openly anti Israel and remains so but in a blatant and direct way openly favouring its puppet monarchies and considering Israel a slap in its face for existing.

But not even Britain, Saudi Arabia. Jordan, Egypt expect Israel to back down from Iran or any terrorists. In fact they support Israel's stand against terrorists.

The problem now is Palestinians are in for it yet again. Hamas has turned away from Saudi Arabia to Hezbollah and Iran.

Its turned on its fellow Sunnis in favour of the support it gets from Iran and Hezbollah. There have been now continuous announcements from Hamas-Hezbollah and Iran during the nuclear negotiations of a war to be reignited in Palestine. Iran openly states it is supplying West Bank extremists and considers the Palestinian Authority and Jordan Saudi stooges.

If Palestine on the West Bank is to exist, it can not, if Israel remains at war with its terrorists now being sponsored by Iran who agitate in Jordan as well. Iran is not in the mood for compromise. Its at war in Lebanon, Yemen, Bahrain, Syria. Jordan, Israel, the Gulf States, the Sunni area of Iraa, the Kurd region of Iraq, all considered legitimate targets.

Saudi Arabia has clearly signalled like Egypt and Israel it has turned its back on Obama.

With that US leadership vacuum Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, the Gulf States and Jordan, see Iran as the enemy, Syria, Lebanon and Yemen as the consequence of not standing up them, Obama as an embarassing clown who can't grasp what a Muslim is other than his sheltered notions from Indonesian childhood.

Russia, China, India and Germany and now France are playing a role. So is Britain. I believe all those nations behind the scenes have sufficient connections to prevent a full blown out war. The world will survive in spite of Obama and his idiocy.

In the interim Syria, Yemen and the West Bank, Sudan, Bahrain, Gaza, Ira will all fester as Sunni and Shiite extremists kill each other off. The Sunnin monarchies and Israel will stay on the sides involving themselves in containment but not full out war. There is no such thing as full out war in the desert. War in the desert is sporadic like sand storms. It comes, it blows up and it blows out, until the next skirmish but never one constant war, just a series of disjointed blow ups or conflict zones.

The wars are run by cells, each with its own leader. There is no direct centralized leadership of extremists. Each cell operates on its own. This is what makes it like a series of bush fires that erupt not one centralized movement of flame.

Saudi Arabia will wipe out as many civilians as it has to. Its not Israel. The anti Israelis on this board of course will remain silent. The same anti Israel shrills so quick to point Israel out for killing civilians, won't discuss the Muslim on Muslim violence. They can't. In their world there is only one enemy Israel.

They can't acknowlede Israel is just one of many parties in this conflict.

Palestinians in the interim will be exploited by Iran and Hezbollah. Make no mistake Iran could care less about Palestinians. Their only use is a weapon against Israel and Jordan and for that matter Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Abbas is as good as dead if Iran has their way.

This charade of extending nuclear talks has enabled Iran to launch a war and ridicule Sunni monarchies as well as Israel threatening to blow them all up. The exercise of appeasing Iran has just served to inflamme it and the Middle East.

Obama is pulling a Neville Chamberlain to Hitler. He's being made a fool of.

[Big Guy]

Canada is now at war in Syria:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/09/middleeast/canada-isis-syria-first-airstrike/

The problem is that we do not know who we at war against and who are on our side - or what side we are on.

We are dropping bombs on a sovereign nation which has not asked us for any assistance nor has shown any aggression towards us. That condition would dictate that we are at war with Syria - except we are helping the Assad government.

The latest news has only Americans and Canadian airplanes dropping bombs in Syria at this time. We have also been told that there are no Americans of Canadian troops on the ground. We have been told that bombing requires someone on the ground to establish targets and minimize the "collateral damage" (read innocent people pulverized). Who then is on the ground in Syria?

Is it Canadian "Troop trainers"?

Is it American tourists?

Is it Syrian military?

Maybe we are bombing blind.

We are being played like a fine fiddle.

[Big Guy]

Latest reports from Syria are that the Assad government is using chlorine gas against civilians. I guess somebody from Canada should tell Assad that we bombing his enemies and that he should be nice!

Edited April 17, 2015 by Big Guy

[GostHacked]

Latest reports from Syria are that the Assad government is using chlorine gas against civilians. I guess somebody from Canada should tell Assad that we bombing his enemies and that he should be nice!

Some of the same enemies that the west funded? FSA! Chemical weapons has been tried before, but turned out it was the rebels who did the chemical attack.

[Big Guy]

So the Americans have 52 fewer Syrian civilians to free up from Assad. Those American and Canadian planes are bombing in Syria to keep the people safe from ISIS - oh - and from Assad. One recent sortie guaranteed that at least 52 civilians would not lose their freedom to either ISIL or Assad - our bombs have killed them. Hundreds more are injured to a point that they will not have to seek out refugee camps to die but can do it right at home.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/05/dozens-killed-led-air-strikes-northern-syria-150502075524437.html

Boy am I glad that we have expanded our war against ISIL in Iraq to include Syria. Now we have hundreds of Syrian relatives of "acceptable collateral damage" ready to avenge those killings. I sure hope that none of them are in Canada right now.

First create domestic terrorists by killing innocents abroad and then warn us and create fear of these terrorists.

We are being played like a fine fiddle.

[Guest]

300 Yazidi captives killed by ISIS. I'm sure glad Canadians are involved in tryng to kill as many ISIS members as possible. Imagine how many innocents would be killed if they weren't.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32565809

Edited May 2, 2015 by bcsapper

[overthere]

First create domestic terrorists by killing innocents abroad and then warn us and create fear of these terrorists.

Harper is to blame for everything.

Maybe, just maybe, Syria was a failed state long before we had much to do with the place.

[Big Guy]

When you have a majority government you are responsible for where you send our military.

[Big Guy]

To bcsapper - I agree, if we know who we are killing and why we are doing it. Our latest foray into Idlib wiped out Assad troops - and allowed Al Qaeda troops to take over. Who are we helping?

[Big Guy]

The leader of our coalition is now calling on Russia and Iran to help our cause by getting Assad of Syria to quit and go away. I assume that Canada is part of that request since we have airplanes in the air dropping bombs where the USA tells us to;

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/kerry-syria-assad-timing-negotiable-150919124946684.html

Now is this that Russian nation led by that Putin guy who the USA is trying to punish with economic sanctions because he helped the folks in Crimea to leave the Ukraine? Is this that evil Iran who the West cannot trust and who are sworn to kill all of us and we have been trying to starve with economic sanctions for year?

Of course they should do us a favor and help remove the legitimate head of a sovereign nation.

There are consequences for every action. When the West decided to get involved in other nations business, especially in Eastern and Southern Ukraine then we pointed an economic finger and a warning to Putin.

Now we expect co-operation from the folks we have been trying to starve?

Lots of luck!

Time to review our foreign policy.

[eyeball]

Harper is to blame for everything.

Maybe, just maybe, Syria was a failed state long before we had much to do with the place.

We failed Syrians by not standing up to Assad's patron. Of course we were just as busy patronizing others of his ilk so where we'd get off telling others not to escapes me.

Anyway, nobody said Harper was to blame for everything, just going along with it. Makes him look even more pathetic AFAIC.

[WIP]

Harper is to blame for everything.

Maybe, just maybe, Syria was a failed state long before we had much to do with the place.

We don't seem to have much to do with anything anymore, except wiping America's ass!

I don't know your position on climate change, but if you're a denier, you have a share of the blame for Syria becoming a failed state and devolving into anarchy and leading to millions on the march today. Because the catalyst which spawned unrest that led to a revolt and a civil war in Syria was a series of unprecedented droughts, that drove more than one million Syrian farmers off the land and into the cities.: Water, Drought, Climate Change, and Conflict in Syria

That was the first round of refugees, and in a region where fights over water spawn many conflicts, the trend towards drying in this region had been identified at least 10 years ago, and report prepared by Andrew Marshall for the Pentagon back in 2004 predicted the increase in wars and refugee crises by 2020....which is already happening now. The US Defense Dept. even during the climate change-denying president Bush was predicting a dangerous future that would strain global stability. So why did the Obama Administration reject a Russian offer to have Assad step down in 2012?

West 'ignored Russian offer in 2012 to have Syria's Assad step aside'

Seems like this is a mess that the US and their allies Saudi Arabia and Gulf States should have to deal with....since they created ISIS with all of their 'regime change' efforts!

[WIP]

We failed Syrians by not standing up to Assad's patron.

How much do you want nuclear war? Because Assad's patron - Russia has it's only foreign naval base in Syria....so any expectations that Russia would just step back and let Syria fall was wishful thinking!

[bush_cheney2004]

Seems like this is a mess that the US and their allies Saudi Arabia and Gulf States should have to deal with....since they created ISIS with all of their 'regime change' efforts!

Well...look at the bright side...at least you still have all those American resources for climate change worship (DoD, NOAA, NASA, NCDC, GISS, etc.). I am sure that the Syrians really appreciate it too !

[eyeball]

How much do you want nuclear war? Because Assad's patron - Russia has it's only foreign naval base in Syria....so any expectations that Russia would just step back and let Syria fall was wishful thinking!

I want a nuclear war like I want another hole in my head but I've come to the conclusion it's inevitable...but what do I know, now people seem to think we should ally ourselves with Putin.

Eastern ruthlessness and Western amorality could be just what the planet needs to save its bacon.

[Big Guy]

So now we have Russian airplanes and Russian anti-airplane missiles in Syria. They are there because Syria, a sovereign nation, has asked Russia for their assistance. We also have American and Canadian airplanes dropping bombs on Syrian soil. We have no business being there.

If a Russian missile or aircraft takes out an American or Canadian bomber then whose fault will that be?

If a Canadian or American bomber takes out a Russian airplane then whose fault will that be?

Who is the aggressor?

Have any of those bright lights in the Pentagon or Ottawa thought this out?

[Canada_First]

So now we have Russian airplanes and Russian anti-airplane missiles in Syria. They are there because Syria, a sovereign nation, has asked Russia for their assistance. We also have American and Canadian airplanes dropping bombs on Syrian soil. We have no business being there.

If a Russian missile or aircraft takes out an American or Canadian bomber then whose fault will that be?

If a Canadian or American bomber takes out a Russian airplane then whose fault will that be?

Who is the aggressor?

Have any of those bright lights in the Pentagon or Ottawa thought this out?

Why do you care?

[Canada_First]

How much do you want nuclear war? Because Assad's patron - Russia has it's only foreign naval base in Syria....so any expectations that Russia would just step back and let Syria fall was wishful thinking!

I'd like it very badly to take place. It'd be good for the Earth.

[Rue]

Big Guy supports Putin's illegal invasion and seizure of Ukrainian sovereign territory and cheers on Iran and Putin as they prop Assad's murderous regime continue to commit genocide on its own people for being Sunni, Christian, Berber or Druze.

Not a peep from Big Guy or his leftist buddies about Iran financing and arming Assad's genocide via Hezbollah helpers. Not a peep about them wiping out Sunnis, Kurds, Christians, Bahaiis, on and on in Iraq or their funding terrorists in Gaza and on the West Bank or in funding civil wars in South Sudan, Malawi, Nigeria, Yemen, Bahrain, and the continuing occupation of Lebanon by Hezbollah or Iraq by Iranian regular army troops. Not peep as Christians are slaughtered in Iraq, Sudan, Nigeria, all funded by Iran.

On the other hand Big Guy likes to lecture how Canada should be allied with Iran. How dare Canada try contain ISIL from murdering innocent people while at the same time disprove what Iran and Syria are doing. How dare Harper state what is a fact and that is that Iran is the no.1 financier of terror and death in the ME. No not Big Guy-he's busy apologizing and kissing Putin's f butt and wants us allied with Iran. Interesting how it works. He will spend post after post accusing Israel of being a war criminal while of course not saying a word as Iran finances the worst human rights slaughters since Hitler.

As for WIP well you have to love his lack of logic. If Canada is licking the US's ass, why does Canada refuse to cowtow to Iran like Obama does? Hmmm? Well WIP? Where has WIP been for the last eight years as Harper has totally distanced Canada's foreign policy from Obama's.? Where has he been while Obama wages war on Israel and urns a blind eye to Ukraine and Harper has made it clear he stands for both Israel and Ukraine?

Canada's foreign policy on Libya, Ukraine and Israel is diametrically opposed to that of the US under the Obama regime as is out relationship with China, Italy, France and Britain. In fact never before has our foreign policy been so different.

Harper sent fighters to Libya when Obama refused. He was dead against Obama's creating ISIL as was Britain, France and Italy who all like Canada send their fighter jets to Libya while Obama refused instead turning on Nato and creating his disasterous plan with Erdogan. Just where was WIP?

Harper has condemned Muslim terrorists and uses the word Muslim whole Obama has stated if a Muslim is a terrorist, the word Muslim must magically disappear and they can no longer be called Muslims because he says so-they cease being Muslim the moment they are terrorists because its politically incorrect to point out its their Muslim extremism that fuels their terrorist beliefs.

Its the same bullcrap double speak BigGuy uses when describing Iran or with the other bleeding hearts on this forum who get offended when its pointed out Muslim extremism is the cause of terrorism-oh no they say, its the US and Israel and maybe he EU that cause all the world's ills. Not a peep about Islamic extremism and intolerance or the roles of Russia and China. Not a damn peep..

Big Guy will lecture about Canada not taking in refugees but remain silent on the fact Russia and China won't take one Syrian in from the country they claim to be allied with.. He won't discuss Iran taking in refugees or their role in creating them Not him. Its Canada's fault. Harper kills babies. Not a peep about Iran and the Arab league refusing to take in refugees but of course a snarky series of posts that Israel should take them in.

The bullcrap that passes as comment on this forum is there for all to see. Now that Obama is in fact propping Iran, and Harper openly disputes that as forcefully as is possible its a bloody joke for WIP to claim Harper kisses Obama's ass? What a joke. In fact Obama punished Canada by refusing to allow a pipeline be built as petulant revenge against Harper for not sucking his butt.

As for the US, when and if it has a normal President again, I like many Canadians believe they are our ally. We don't kiss their butt we in fact use it tand hide deep up its butt.

Our country is the second lowest spender on is military as per its gdp in all of NATO. That is a fact. We do that precisely because the ass WIP claims we kiss we in fact have no problem relying on to protect us. We have cruised on US taxpayer funded military protection since the end of WW2. That is the cold hard fact WIP and his leftist anti Yankee friends will not acknowledge. They just take it for granted. Its easy to piss on the US when our entire lifestyle comes about as a direct result of the very country they claim we kiss.

In fact we have relied on their butt all of us and in particular the smarmy leftists who think their crap doesn't stink. It does.. They drive SUV's and suck the same kool aid called oil and yet they pretend they are righteous and not dependent on the military oil complex.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Rue

[GostHacked]

And not a word about the terrorists the west is funding and training.

[Big Guy]

Looks like Aleppo (Syria) may be the bellwether of the current Assad vs Rebels war. Assad is using ground to ground (Russian?) missiles to bomb and soften the rebel part of Aleppo:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/assad-forces-kill-dozens-civilians-syria-aleppo-150921130400825.html

Since ISIS forces are also in parts of Aleppo I wonder how the coalition knows which side it is bombing - the good guy anti Assad guys or the bad guy Anti-Assad ISIS guys.

It is also being reported that Russian drones are now in the skies over Syria. So over Syria we now have American fighters, Canadian fighters, American drones, Russian drones and Turkish fighters looking for Kurds (good guys to us).

Must be getting pretty busy in those skies.