Teacher Stress Is Killing My Profession

[On Guard for Thee]

I just heard yesterday that Harper is the worst PM in Canadian history. I wasn't totally sure but now I know the "things you see and hear are true" then I rest my case.

[PrimeNumber]

I just heard yesterday that Harper is the worst PM in Canadian history. I wasn't totally sure but now I know the "things you see and hear are true" then I rest my case.

I heard this as well, from multiple sources.

[Bryan]

That's why I said that quoting "sources" is irrelevant.

Now, if you were personally in the cabinets of several PMs and you told me that Harper was the worst one you worked for, and gave a list of specific things he made you do, THEN the story would have credibility.

[On Guard for Thee]

You don't have to actually work for him to understand how bad his policies are.

[poochy]

You don't have to actually work for him to understand how bad his policies are.

Yea, can you imagine if he had done any of the horrible things that he was definetly going to do, like ban abortion, or ban gay marrigae, or keep women in the home, or put troops on the streets! I guess we got off easy, or perhaps the people who might have actually thought those things were likely didn't and don't have any credibility. Perhaps, i don't know, a marginally conservative pm will always have people that simply hate him for not being a liberal, or being from the 'redneck west' (not really) and maybe that clouds their judgement. Living in Ontario the liberals have done much more to negatively affect my life, mostly financially, than the feds have, and as much money as they have stolen from me, from all of us, i don't think they are evil dictators or darth vader, just dishonest politicians, in other words, normal. But for many on the left that would vote for those liberals that's exactly what they think of the pm. That doesnt seem rational.

[AngusThermopyle]

Well said poochy.

[Argus]

You don't have to actually work for him to understand how bad his policies are.

No, but you have to understand the complexities of the issues, which is where virtually all his critics fail.

I don't personally like the man, but then, I haven't liked any PM going back to Trudeau senior. I will say that I have been angered by Harper's policies a lot less than I was with his predecessors. And while it hasn't been absent (Hello Tony Clement) the misuse of taxpayer funds to help their electoral fortunes, not to mention friends and campaign supporters has been far less than with any previous government.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Argus

[Moonbox]

Sorry, I'll trust my "anecdotal" evidence more that some article written by a left wing rag (likely planted by teacher unions) like the Huffington Post or Globe and Mail.

You can trust whatever you want. Just don't expect anyone to consider your anecdotes as anything more than worthless. At least writers of the Globe and Mail (I laughed when you called it a left-wing rag) have some intellectual and journalistic responsibility to publish facts, and those facts are 10000x more reliable than you telling us about "some guy you know".

[drummindiver]

More anecdotal nonsense. I the teachers that I know who use their cell phones in their classrooms are using them as tools to enhance learning. Did you ever think of that, Hal? But I guess you are unfamiliar with 21st Century Learning, aren't you?

You're google/youtube comment is beyond ridiculous. I guess anyone can make up silly stories to make point.

You need a cell phone to learn in the 21st century? An "educator" needs a cell phone to, ahem, educate in the 21st century? And you claim other ppls' comments are ridiculous?

Edited December 31, 2014 by drummindiver

[drummindiver]

Yea, can you imagine if he had done any of the horrible things that he was definetly going to do, like ban abortion, or ban gay marrigae, or keep women in the home, or put troops on the streets! I guess we got off easy, or perhaps the people who might have actually thought those things were likely didn't and don't have any credibility. Perhaps, i don't know, a marginally conservative pm will always have people that simply hate him for not being a liberal, or being from the 'redneck west' (not really) and maybe that clouds their judgement. Living in Ontario the liberals have done much more to negatively affect my life, mostly financially, than the feds have, and as much money as they have stolen from me, from all of us, i don't think they are evil dictators or darth vader, just dishonest politicians, in other words, normal. But for many on the left that would vote for those liberals that's exactly what they think of the pm. That doesnt seem rational.

As a person living (suffering) in Ontario due to Liberal policies, I couldn't have said this better. I vote Conservative, though I abhor many of their policies. At the end of the day, it is better than the alternatives.

[ironstone]

Hey socialist! You have told all of us just how difficult it is to be a teacher these days.I would agree that it may not be the easiest job out there but can you at least tell us about all the good perks that go with the job?The very good pay,having most summers off,generous sick leave on top of that,the wonderful pension plan where you may likely be collecting a pension for more years than you actually worked?Tell us about the good stuff like that...

[Michael Hardner]

Hey socialist! You have told all of us just how difficult it is to be a teacher these days.I would agree that it may not be the easiest job out there but can you at least tell us about all the good perks that go with the job?The very good pay,having most summers off,generous sick leave on top of that,the wonderful pension plan where you may likely be collecting a pension for more years than you actually worked?Tell us about the good stuff like that...

We've talked about that already on other threads, actually. I believe "Summers off" came out to about two weeks' difference in work year in actuality, comparing two workers in early part of their careers but newer teachers work harder.

Pension Plan and perks are just part of collective bargaining, though. You seem to think that people in society are paid according to some idea of fairness, which is naive in my view.

[overthere]

Pension Plan and perks are just part of collective bargaining, though. You seem to think that people in society are paid according to some idea of fairness, which is naive in my view.

People in society are paid according to supply and demand, except in public sector union situations.

We have seen plenty of evidence recently in Canada to see what happens with private sector union operations. if they cannot compete on all aspects of costs including pay and benefits with overseas workers, the operation folds and moves out of Canada. Non union private sector workers have always had to operate on a supply/demand basis, with some exceptions like Trudeaus disastrous attempt at wage/price controls, or during major wars when the govt intervened.

But public sector unions including teachers, fire, police and often general purpose civil servants have mastered the manipulation of politicians. There is little or no incentive for politicians to battle their own staff, it usually generates more votes to simply cave in and overpay.

[jacee]

People in society are paid according to supply and demand, except in public sector union situations.

Some in the private sector are overpaid when demand is high.

Doesn't happen in the public sector.

It balances out. Get over it.

You want the 'perks' of a teacher?

You get the 30 kids too.

Nothing to see here ...

.

[Michael Hardner]

People in society are paid according to supply and demand, except in public sector union situations.

That's not true at all. It's supply and demand but the guild has the control of supply is all. It's like saying telephone prices are dictated by supply and demand.

[Topaz]

Well, look at it this way, since Harper is the first Conservative PM, the future Conservative PMs can only get better. Mulroney was the last Progressive Conservative and I still would like to know the differences in the two parties. I know the differences in the men.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

There was an article talking about how Principals and other administrators are self medicating to deal with the high level stress. Their jobs have changed from mantaining the morale tone of the school to addressing the ever increasing number of entitled and overbearing parents who only care about their child and not the effect their child has on others... They don't really have any power to change a school either because they are simply pushing policies of someone higher up on the totem poll who gets paid more and wants to get paid even more by pushing policies... regardless of how assinine the policy is. That all filters down to teachers as well.

One thing that is clear to me is that a huge problem is the special needs "integration at all costs" when it comes to teacher stress. Back when we were in school, the kids that would throw daily tantrums and hold classes hostage with their behaviour would be shipped off to specialized programs to focus on that behaviour and let children that were able to learn in the regular classroom setting... learn in a regular classroom setting. Unfortunately, giving specialized programs to violent, behavioural, or special needs students is "demeaning" to them. The truth is that they benefit from the specialized setting and perform better in where they are the norm, not the exception to stand out. The modern educational concept is that everyone's education should suffer by having little terrors everywhere to constantly derail the teacher's attempt to educate and have meaningful lessons. You can see the effect from year to year too. Teachers call them "crop failures". Years where there are so many bad apples and high needs students that the whole year of student learning experiences was so negatively effected for EVERY YEAR of schooling because no one fails grades anymore. The teachers had to spend their effort controlling tantrums, violent and high needs behaviour to the point where there are very few students with ambition or that stand out in positive ways because the teachers were drained in addressing the other behaviour.

Edited January 19, 2015 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Big Guy]

Everybody thinks that others jobs are easier and overpaid. To teach requires a specific type of personality. To teach very well requires an affinity for youngsters and dedication to the process. That involves stress. It comes with the territory.

It is a well paid profession that is very rewarding to those who have the requirements, character and work ethic to be successful, in the classroom. Those who get "stressed out" should review their methodology, attitude and dedication. If your health begins to suffer then it is time to look into another profession. There are lots of young qualified graduates who are looking for an opportunity.

[PIK]

The stress comes from their own unions, the job is easy. Teach the same thing yr after yr. If they don't like it, I hear timmies are hiring.

[overthere]

Some in the private sector are overpaid when demand is high.

Incorrect. They are paid what the value of their services warrants. That is not overpayment, it is market value.

That's not true at all. It's supply and demand but the guild has the control of supply is all. It's like saying telephone prices are dictated by supply and demand.

They do not have control though. When demand spikes and wages soar, workers flood to the guild and/or industry finds ways to get a new supply of labour. If industry finds it simply cannot operate profitably with expensive labour, the doors close and the jobs go elsewhere. Of course. Hello Ontario.

.

Doesn't happen in the public sector.

Of course it does. Teachers unions in my province both license new teachers and are responsible for disciplining teachers. Not only do they therefore influence supply, they are well aware of how to control their own employers.

All it would take to change these realities would be a small measure of spine from politicians , but that would be a lot to expect from pols.

Cops and firemen are in similar situations, they are well aware of how to manage their masters.

We are the fools for allowing it and paying for it.

Edited January 19, 2015 by overthere

[ironstone]

We've talked about that already on other threads, actually. I believe "Summers off" came out to about two weeks' difference in work year in actuality, comparing two workers in early part of their careers but newer teachers work harder.

Pension Plan and perks are just part of collective bargaining, though. You seem to think that people in society are paid according to some idea of fairness, which is naive in my view.

I forgot one thing in the teaching profession,they don't actually have to get the best results from their students any more.I thought students don't fail these days,they just get passed up to the next grade regardless of how bad their grades may be.

And I do believe the majority of teachers get a lot more than two weeks off too.

[Michael Hardner]

I forgot one thing in the teaching profession,they don't actually have to get the best results from their students any more.

What does that mean for teacher stress ? It seems like it would make it worse, since the students don't have to apply themselves, you don't have the carrot/stick of high/low grades to get them to behave ?

I thought students don't fail these days,they just get passed up to the next grade regardless of how bad their grades may be

And I do believe the majority of teachers get a lot more than two weeks off too.

I don't think you understood my post. I believe we made a general comparison and found teachers to work about two weeks less all things taken into account. We didn't account for factors like, for example, new teachers working more ... or end-of-career workers (not in the teacher profession) getting more vacation time. But there you have it.

[socialist]

What does that mean for teacher stress ? It seems like it would make it worse, since the students don't have to apply themselves, you don't have the carrot/stick of high/low grades to get them to behave ?

I thought students don't fail these days,they just get passed up to the next grade regardless of how bad their grades may be

I don't think you understood my post. I believe we made a general comparison and found teachers to work about two weeks less all things taken into account. We didn't account for factors like, for example, new teachers working more ... or end-of-career workers (not in the teacher profession) getting more vacation time. But there you have it.

I know first hand that teacher stress is a serious problem. People don't realize the numerous stresses that we deal with. I already know many teachers that are already stressed, and we are just a few weeks back from the break. I would say over 3/4 of my colleagues are stressed. This is not a good situation.

[Michael Hardner]

I know first hand that teacher stress is a serious problem. People don't realize the numerous stresses that we deal with. I already know many teachers that are already stressed, and we are just a few weeks back from the break.

I would say over 3/4 of my colleagues are stressed. This is not a good situation.

This is anecdotal, and anyway I wasn't asking that. I was responding to an unclear point from another poster.

[Ash74]

I know first hand that teacher stress is a serious problem. People don't realize the numerous stresses that we deal with. I already know many teachers that are already stressed, and we are just a few weeks back from the break. I would say over 3/4 of my colleagues are stressed. This is not a good situation.

Can anybody tell me of a person with responsibilities in their profession that does not have stress?