2 more liberal MP's gone.

[On Guard for Thee]

I don't expect you to.

Is that because there really isn't one?

[Smallc]

That every party is full of human beings, and that sometimes leaders make mistakes, by either selecting certain people for certain roles, or rushing to judgement when accusations come forward. Trudeau is just as human as Harper, though your reaction to similar situations involving the two shows much about your views.

[On Guard for Thee]

That every party is full of human beings, and that sometimes leaders make mistakes, by either selecting certain people for certain roles, or rushing to judgement when accusations come forward. Trudeau is just as human as Harper, though your reaction to similar situations involving the two shows much about your views.

Yes I am aware that Trudeau and Harper are both humans. I didn't rush to judgement on Del Mastro. The courts did that job. So far it seems Harper has difficulty selecting people to put in places of power. They keep ending up in criminal court. That's just the reality. Nothing to do with my views.

[eyeball]

Did you see that video of the girl walking down the street and she says she was verbally sexual assaulted 132 times. Saying hello to her is a sexual assault or even saying how good she looked, in her tight jeans and shirt. Maybe these womem should wear burkas.

Actually what it suggests is that a lot of men should wear blinders.

[cybercoma]

That every party is full of human beings, and that sometimes leaders make mistakes

Sometimes? Harper's judgment in selecting appointees is no mistake. I can see a couple people, but repeated and pervasive problems with everyone from Senators to Ministers to his own Parliamentary Secretary. That's not a mistake. That's someone who's judgment sucks or it's intentional.

Edited November 6, 2014 by cybercoma

[Smallc]

I think it's partly intentional and partly by mistake. There are going to be the normal mistakes, of course, that any government that had been in power will have. A lot of conservatives like GWB and Harper hate government and subconsciously seek to undermine it. As a conservative minded person who doesn't hate government it sort of baffles me.

In terms of JTs reaction to this situation, I think it's overkill. There should be a presumption of innocence. I don't see that here.

[Topaz]

When one of the senator was accused of this, it was pointed out that WE, taxpayers pay out million of dollars from women/men that work on the HILL, going to court from this topic. I think its past time that men, especially now, you can't say or do what ever you feel like because society is changing and if this becomes law, many men will end up in jail or a huge fine. Of course, this would go for women too but one doesn't hear too much on that end.

[PIK]

That every party is full of human beings, and that sometimes leaders make mistakes, by either selecting certain people for certain roles, or rushing to judgement when accusations come forward. Trudeau is just as human as Harper, though your reaction to similar situations involving the two shows much about your views.

And men will be men.

[PIK]

Quoted for posterity

Pik, this entire post is pathetic and you have no idea why do you?

What you are saying is that women need to wear a burka if they do not want to be hassled on the street.

No one needs to grow up, but some people need get a clue, and yes, that means you.

I assure you , should you ever have a daughter , you wont sit back when random men comment on her body parts

You don't dress to the hilt and expect men or women to not notice. Human nature is in play here. How does a female attract a male? You can't have it both ways. Grow up yourself. This more to do with how people act towards each other in different situations.

[Big Guy]

Sexual harassment is a political killer. Sexual harassment is also a very difficult thing to pin down since it depends on the sensibilities, interpretation and tolerance of the "harassed".

Politically, this thing is picking up speed. I believe that Trudeau had no choice but to suspend the two MP's.

Two female NDP MP's came directly to him and complained about the actions of two members of his caucus. For him to try to deal with this internally would have been political suicide. Can you imagine if he did nothing and it was later disclosed? He would have been crucified.

The interesting twist here is that the NDP are now upset and accusing the Liberals of blind siding them by suspending these MP's and making the allegations public. According to reports, the two female NDP MP's wanted to remain anonymous. There is now no way that they can stay anonymous or not disclosing exactly what behaviour was interpreted as sexual harassment. Since there are no existing protocols of how to deal with MP on MP complaints, at least this event will create one.

While the Conservatives may be on the sidelines happy to watch the NDP and Liberals fight this out, they may be brought in if the macho attitude in Ottawa is investigated.

Unfortunately, I believe that this will not end well for those NDP MP's in that they will be forced to be the center of the development of a new anti harassment policy in Ottawa.

I believe that JT had no choice but to do what he did.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Big Guy

[Argus]

Well it looks like Trudeau's lack of judgement is being laid bare once again. Apparently these incidents were brought up but neither of the two complainants wanted anything to become public. He ignored their wishes and held a news conference!

We don't yet know what the allegations are. Even one of the MPs has said HE doesn't know what the allegations are. He's been punished, and his name dragged through the muck, and no one has even had the courtsey to tell him what he's accusd of doing! That is absolutely the lowest in terms of leadership and management. You don't punish someone without at the very least asking for their side of a story, much less do so without even telling them why!

According to the Citizen the complaining MPs didn't want to file formal complaints out of fear of it damaging the careers of the alleged harrasers. That would seem to indicate the alleged behaviour wasn't exactly horrific.

But Trudeau jumped the gun immediately, suspending them and holding a news conference to say, bizarrely, that in his mind it's guilty until proven innocent in terms of such allegations. This guy wants to be prime minister!?

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/ndp-says-mps-blindsided-by-liberal-move-to-go-public-with-misconduct-allegations

Edited November 6, 2014 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

And men will be men.

This is often cited as a way to excuse anti-social behavior or worse. Why can't we have responsibility for one's actions anymore ?

[Keepitsimple]

Well it looks like Trudeau's lack of judgement is being laid bare once again. Apparently these incidents were brought up but neither of the two complainants wanted anything to become public. He ignored their wishes and held a news conference!

We don't yet know what the allegations are. Even one of the MPs has said HE doesn't know what the allegations are. He's been punished, and his name dragged through the muck, and no one has even had the courtsey to tell him what he's accusd of doing! That is absolutely the lowest in terms of leadership and management. You don't punish someone without at the very least asking for their side of a story, much less do so without even telling them why!

According to the Citizen the complaining MPs didn't want to file formal complaints out of fear of it damaging the careers of the alleged harrasers. That would seem to indicate the alleged behaviour wasn't exactly horrific.

But Trudeau jumped the gun immediately, suspending them and holding a news conference to say, bizarrely, that in his mind it's guilty until proven innocent in terms of such allegations. This guy wants to be prime minister!?

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/ndp-says-mps-blindsided-by-liberal-move-to-go-public-with-misconduct-allegations

If that is what happened then it truly is a knee-jerk reaction that goes against the stated wishes of the victims and is unfair to the MP's. Bad judgement again......

[Mighty AC]

If that is what happened then it truly is a knee-jerk reaction that goes against the stated wishes of the victims and is unfair to the MP's. Bad judgement again......

In the private sector the accused individuals would be removed from the situation while an investigation took place. This is the proper course. Remove them from caucus, investigate the situation and if they're cleared then invite them back.

[Big Guy]

An MP accuses another MP of sexual harassment and wants to maintain anonymity? Why would she expect that? A person's reputation and possibly career is on the line and the accuser does not want to be identified? What did she/they expect JT to do? Have a word with the accused, give him a slap on the hand and ...? And if Trudeau did not do what would be "acceptable" to the accuser then she would have the opportunity to go to the media later with a report that Trudeau tried to sweep a scandal under the rug.

That would be a real "surprising" issue for the NDP in the coming campaign for the next election.

What other choice did JT have?

I do not think he had one.

[cybercoma]

Why would expecting him to have a word with the accused to get their acts straight be unreasonable? By blowing this open in front of the media to score political points, he has put their confidentiality in jeopardy. (Please stop saying anonymity. They're not anonymous if they brought the claims forward in person. Their identities are confidential.)

[Moonlight Graham]

A lot of conservatives like GWB and Harper hate government and subconsciously seek to undermine it.

I think you have that wrong. A lot of conservatives like GWB and Harper hate government only when it doesn't benefit their interests.

[Smallc]

I think you have that wrong. A lot of conservatives like GWB and Harper hate government only when it doesn't benefit their interests.

No, that's not true. They believe that government is a cancer to be killed in many ways.

[Smallc]

This is often cited as a way to excuse anti-social behavior or worse. Why can't we have responsibility for one's actions anymore ?

There is certainly that, but there is also a limit to how far we can carry this. Men find women attractive. Many women, for some reason, don't like that idea.

[cybercoma]

No, that's not true. They believe that government is a cancer to be killed in many ways.

I don't think there's any politicians who are dense enough to actually believe society could function without government. In fact, they absolutely love government, as long as it's bombing other countries and spying on or arresting our own citizens. They just love spending money on bombs, guns, and prisons.

[cybercoma]

There is certainly that, but there is also a limit to how far we can carry this. Men find women attractive. Many women, for some reason, don't like that idea.

Nice strawman, bud. Women don't like being harassed. Work is not a singles bar. Most people don't go there to flirt or be picked up. It's wholly inappropriate behaviour, as it's neither the time nor the place for that. It has nothing to do with men finding them attractive and everything to do with certain men who express at inappropriate times, in inappropriate places and in inappropriate ways. Moreover, women don't owe you a damn thing. I know you just love the term "privilege," but you need to seriously check your privilege if you think women should be grateful for unwanted and inappropriate sexual attention.

[On Guard for Thee]

No, that's not true. They believe that government is a cancer to be killed in many ways.

Then why do they like to have such large ones then? Harper has done nothing but grow the bureaucracy since taking power and now has the largest PMO in history.

[Remiel]

I do not think you do something as serious as accuse someone of sexual harassment if you merely want them to "get their act straight" . You are expecting some kind of consequences.

[On Guard for Thee]

Trudeau had no choice but to act IMO. He properly did not reveal the names of the accusers and we all know if he'd of sat on this the government would have screamed coverup to the high heavens. Anything for a vote.

[cybercoma]

I do not think you do something as serious as accuse someone of sexual harassment if you merely want them to "get their act straight" . You are expecting some kind of consequences.

It's not even clear that it was sexual harassment. So far all that has been said in the media is that they were acting "inappropriately."