PIK Posted November 5, 2014 Report Posted November 5, 2014 http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/11/05/two-liberal-mps-booted-from-caucus-on-personal-misconduct-allegations It will be interesting to see what JT says about this. Did they do something wrong or maybe disagreed with the way JT is doing things. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Shady Posted November 5, 2014 Report Posted November 5, 2014 They probably had independent views on issues Justin doesn't agree with. And you can't disagree with Dear Leader. Quote
Big Guy Posted November 5, 2014 Report Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Looks like it was for allegations of sexual harassment. Interesting reaction. Certainly different than how the other parties deal with allegations against their members. These were "allegations" from two NDP females. Interesting to see that JT believes in suspending until proof is shown unlike Harper who chooses to wait for the proof. What happens if these allegations are not proven to be true? Edited November 5, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
The_Squid Posted November 5, 2014 Report Posted November 5, 2014 Looks like it was for allegations of sexual harassment. Interesting reaction. Certainly different than how the other parties deal with allegations against their members. These were "allegations" from two NDP females. Interesting to see that JT believes in suspending until proof is shown unlike Harper who chooses to wait for the proof. What happens if these allegations are not proven to be true? JT has chosen exactly the correct way to deal with it. If the allegations are not proven, then JT has a judgement call to make. Is there a pattern with these MPs? Have they shown poor judgement in the past? What is the likelihood that this occurred, despite a lack of positive proof? Those are the questions he will have to wrestle with. Quote
PIK Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Posted November 5, 2014 JT has chosen exactly the correct way to deal with it. If the allegations are not proven, then JT has a judgement call to make. Is there a pattern with these MPs? Have they shown poor judgement in the past? What is the likelihood that this occurred, despite a lack of positive proof? Those are the questions he will have to wrestle with.Funny when harper does it, it poor judgment. Maybe JT is smartening up and realizing you want to win act like a champion.(harper) Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Big Guy Posted November 5, 2014 Report Posted November 5, 2014 What concerns me is the caustic atmosphere in Ottawa. Each party is looking for ways to denigrate and/or undermine the other with half truths and outright lies. I hope this does not end in a "he says she says" scenario where a member of one party can get rid of another member of another party through sheer allegations. There have been situations where sexual harassment was overt and meant to harass and punished accordingly. But there have been too many situations where the definition of sexual harassment by one individual was very different from another. I have seen a definition where you are sexually harassed when you feel sexually harassed. I hope this gets investigated by a third impartial body. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
PIK Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Posted November 5, 2014 What concerns me is the caustic atmosphere in Ottawa. Each party is looking for ways to denigrate and/or undermine the other with half truths and outright lies. I hope this does not end in a "he says she says" scenario where a member of one party can get rid of another member of another party through sheer allegations. There have been situations where sexual harassment was overt and meant to harass and punished accordingly. But there have been too many situations where the definition of sexual harassment by one individual was very different from another. I have seen a definition where you are sexually harassed when you feel sexually harassed. I hope this gets investigated by a third impartial body. Did you see that video of the girl walking down the street and she says she was verbally sexual assaulted 132 times. Saying hello to her is a sexual assault or even saying how good she looked, in her tight jeans and shirt. Maybe these womem should wear burkas. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
The_Squid Posted November 5, 2014 Report Posted November 5, 2014 Funny when harper does it, it poor judgment. Maybe JT is smartening up and realizing you want to win act like a champion.(harper) Where did I say Harper had poor judgement? And what MPs are you referring to? Quote
The_Squid Posted November 5, 2014 Report Posted November 5, 2014 Did you see that video of the girl walking down the street and she says she was verbally sexual assaulted 132 times. Saying hello to her is a sexual assault or even saying how good she looked, in her tight jeans and shirt. Maybe these womem should wear burkas. Women do not deserve to be harassed as they walk down the street. That's a disgusting attitude. Grow up. Quote
PIK Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Posted November 5, 2014 Where did I say Harper had poor judgement? And what MPs are you referring to? Not you. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Topaz Posted November 5, 2014 Report Posted November 5, 2014 I thought this was a personal and not sexual but its probably more about men vs women issue and not party. I agree with Justin there needs to be a separate body for problems within Parliament and that same body should look after ALL things connect to the MPs like pay raises while they are at it. Quote
PIK Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Posted November 5, 2014 Women do not deserve to be harassed as they walk down the street. That's a disgusting attitude. Grow up. Saying hello is harassment? And who in hell do these women think they are. If you don't like it, wear a burka, don't go out dress to kill and then get upset when someone says that you look nice. You and they need to grow up. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Mighty AC Posted November 5, 2014 Report Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Did you see that video of the girl walking down the street and she says she was verbally sexual assaulted 132 times. Saying hello to her is a sexual assault or even saying how good she looked, in her tight jeans and shirt. Maybe these womem should wear burkas. The actual wording was 100+ incidents of verbal street harassment, not sexual harassment. It did start an interesting campaign where men called out similar "compliments" to other men just to see if they still consider it polite. Funny, how the "just being nice by acknowledging your appearance" BS goes away when the context changes. Another interesting fact is the producers of the video acknowledged that they did edit out most of the catcalls by white men. Edited November 5, 2014 by Mighty AC Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
cybercoma Posted November 5, 2014 Report Posted November 5, 2014 They probably had independent views on issues Justin doesn't agree with. And you can't disagree with Dear Leader. So the women accusing them of sexual harassment are liars? Quote
Argus Posted November 6, 2014 Report Posted November 6, 2014 So the women accusing them of sexual harassment are liars? Maybe, maybe not. This strikes me as very bizarre that two different MPs get suspended for the same thing at the same time following complaints from 2 NDP female MPs. A lot of people don't really know what sexual harassment means. Generally speaking, to rise to an actionable level, it has to be either quite severe - which is hard to believe would occur between multiple MPs, or repeated over time. A one time event rarely makes the cut unless it's physical, nor does a little teasing and flirting - unless its repeated despite being unwelcome. Right now we have NO details on what happened, but could the suspensions be an overreaction? Given Trudeau's history of making snap decisions based on his perception of how it'll make him look to his adoring fans of politically correct lefties, they very well could be. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
overthere Posted November 6, 2014 Report Posted November 6, 2014 I am going to give odds that one of the complainants is not Libby Davies I thought this was a personal and not sexual but its probably more about men vs women issue and not party. I agree with Justin there needs to be a separate body for problems within Parliament and that same body should look after ALL things connect to the MPs like pay raises while they are at it. Screw that. I don't want to pay for yet another wankoff Institute of Political Correctness in Ottawa, c/w executive director and many staff, all accused of partisanship. If there is criminal conduct, we have plenty of cops and lawyers already on the public teat. If it is not criminal misconduct, their own parties can deal with it. Why does Trudeau wish to abdicate responsibility for the actions of his minions by passing it off? Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
guyser Posted November 6, 2014 Report Posted November 6, 2014 Saying hello is harassment? And who in hell do these women think they are. If you don't like it, wear a burka, don't go out dress to kill and then get upset when someone says that you look nice. You and they need to grow up.Quoted for posterity Pik, this entire post is pathetic and you have no idea why do you? What you are saying is that women need to wear a burka if they do not want to be hassled on the street. No one needs to grow up, but some people need get a clue, and yes, that means you. I assure you , should you ever have a daughter , you wont sit back when random men comment on her body parts Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 6, 2014 Report Posted November 6, 2014 Did you see that video of the girl walking down the street and she says she was verbally sexual assaulted 132 times. Saying hello to her is a sexual assault or even saying how good she looked, in her tight jeans and shirt. Maybe these womem should wear burkas. Why don't you wear one. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 6, 2014 Report Posted November 6, 2014 Man Trudeau has a great team. Hey, so does Harper, could you stop wiping the tears from your eye as Del Mastro gave his bullshit story today of course solely so he could keep his pension after his convictions on election fraud? Oops, don't put your hanky away we still have 3 of Harper's senate appointees to deal with. You know, the one's who already have criminal cases non the go? Quote
Smallc Posted November 6, 2014 Report Posted November 6, 2014 That...is exactly my point. Thank you for proving it for me. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted November 6, 2014 Report Posted November 6, 2014 That...is exactly my point. Thank you for proving it for me. Oh Ok, I didn't quite get your point. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 6, 2014 Report Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) . Edited November 6, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
August1991 Posted November 6, 2014 Report Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) Maybe, maybe not. This strikes me as very bizarre that two different MPs get suspended for the same thing at the same time following complaints from 2 NDP female MPs. A lot of people don't really know what sexual harassment means. Generally speaking, to rise to an actionable level, it has to be either quite severe - which is hard to believe would occur between multiple MPs, or repeated over time. A one time event rarely makes the cut unless it's physical, nor does a little teasing and flirting - unless its repeated despite being unwelcome. Right now we have NO details on what happened, but could the suspensions be an overreaction? Given Trudeau's history of making snap decisions based on his perception of how it'll make him look to his adoring fans of politically correct lefties, they very well could be. I quickly flipped through comments on the Huffington Post article and I found nothing that so well expresses my own thoughts as Argus has. We simply don't enough to make any judgment. Where is the presumption of innocence? As to Trudeau Jnr, I have to agree that he is prone to making hasty comments/decisions. =========== If someone steals a cellphone, then we have a clear case of guilty/innocent - although the thief may lie about the theft. If someone makes a joke about eye colour, then interpretations can go in many directions - and more often than not, the jokester will deny nothing and openly repeat the joke. A term such as "sexual harassment" covers both types of offenses. Edited November 6, 2014 by August1991 Quote
Smallc Posted November 6, 2014 Report Posted November 6, 2014 Oh Ok, I didn't quite get your point. I don't expect you to. Quote
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