bush_cheney2004 Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Compare and contrast....the U.S. government actually had/has a "Peace Corps". Canada...not so much ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Compare and contrast....the U.S. government actually had/has a "Peace Corps". Canada...not so much ! Canada of course has CUSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Radicalization is a process by which an individual or group comes to adopt increasingly extreme political, social, or religious ideals and aspirations that; reject or undermine the status quo. reject and/or undermine contemporary ideas and expressions of freedom of choice. This is wikipedia's definition, and #2 is not sourced on their page. I completely reject #2 as part of a definition of "radical" or "radicalization". There's nothing in itself wrong with being a radical, especially if it's non-violent. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Can Canada repeal biology and psychology and prevent teens and young adults from developing adolescent angst? Adolescent angst is the key phrase here. You have young, rebellious people filled with piss & vinegar who have just recently matured enough in mental capacity to be able to understand all the BS and injustices in this world. Combine those 2 things and you have young people ready and willing to join many different causes and get their angst out in many different ways. Some young people will channel that passion by going overseas and help with humanitarian work, some will turn to protests and activism, and the odd person will go overseas to help in jihad against the big bad westerners. Some kids also shove fireworks up their ass or get drunk until they need their stomach pumped. It's going to be really hard to stop the odd naive young person from doing stupid things. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 It's going to be really hard to stop the odd naive young person from doing stupid things. Or the odd crazy middle-aged person, or the odd stupid old person, let's be real here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 Trolling is allowed here. Derailing threads is allowed here. Asshatery is allowed here. All this has been ramping up in the past couple months, a bit more so than usual. Perpetuated by the usual suspects. This place may be no better than Rabble.... Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted October 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 There could be other reasons why young people are going to Iraq to join ISIS: "Five street signs surrounding a Vienna mosque (Austria) were plastered with inflammatory labels such as "Shariastreet" and "IS Recruitment" last week - one among a rising number of anti-Muslim incursions recently. The Muslim community is sounding the alarm over a new wave of Islamophobia in the wake of a polarising public discourse over the growing number of young Austrians who have joined the ranks of the group calling itself Islamic State, also known as ISIL. Over the past weeks, several women wearing headscarves have been victims of physical attacks. In August, swastikas were painted on the walls of a mosque in Tirol." http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/10/austrian-youth-flocking-isil-2014108101425255506.html I guess there are consequences of Islamophobia. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Islam is responsible for almost all radicalization. I don't know why some people still can't accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Leaving aside the problem that your assertion is statistically unprovable given the data, I can accept that these groups are radicalizing people and that it is a threat. Where I get into problems is where people try to assert that something is fundamentally different about this religion, that it "causes" certain behaviors on its own, and that we should make exceptions for that religion in our policies as a result. I don't think anybody is doubting that radicalization is happening, or that Islamist groups don't exist. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Leaving aside the problem that your assertion is statistically unprovable given the data, I can accept that these groups are radicalizing people and that it is a threat. Where I get into problems is where people try to assert that something is fundamentally different about this religion, that it "causes" certain behaviors on its own, and that we should make exceptions for that religion in our policies as a result. I don't think anybody is doubting that radicalization is happening, or that Islamist groups don't exist. Exactly this. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 It's also interesting to me how we can sit here and condemn Islam for radicalization, but won't do the same for poverty, discrimination and systemic inequality when it comes to the radicalization and violence in black communities or aboriginal first nations communities. Somehow religion has a structural influence on Muslims, but poverty, discrimination, and inequality don't have structural influences on people. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted October 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 It's also interesting to me how we can sit here and condemn Islam for radicalization, but won't do the same for poverty, discrimination and systemic inequality when it comes to the radicalization and violence in black communities or aboriginal first nations communities. Somehow religion has a structural influence on Muslims, but poverty, discrimination, and inequality don't have structural influences on people. I believe the answer is that some people want to believe that other people do bad things because there is something inherently wrong with them or they have a mysterious DNA propensity for bad or they are brain washed or their culture forces them to ... To understand and accept the fact that environment plays the major part in their actions makes it a problem that can be alleviated. Change the environment and change the behaviour. Maybe something like “All men are created equal”? But then how can you justify and satisfy inbred prejudice, discrimination, bigotry, racism, sexism, xenophobia, or any kind of bias based on ignorance? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I believe the answer is that some people want to believe that other people do bad things because there is something inherently wrong with them or they have a mysterious DNA propensity for bad or they are brain washed or their culture forces them to ... To understand and accept the fact that environment plays the major part in their actions makes it a problem that can be alleviated. Change the environment and change the behaviour. Maybe something like “All men are created equal”? But then how can you justify and satisfy inbred prejudice, discrimination, bigotry, racism, sexism, xenophobia, or any kind of bias based on ignorance? It's because poverty, etc isn't the same as a violent radical ideology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) And even if it was, I can't remember the last time anyone was beheaded in an attempt to set up a worldwide poor state. People might do bad things because they are poor, but they don't advocate the death penalty for anyone who gets a job and leaves poverty behind. Edited October 18, 2014 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 It's because poverty, etc isn't the same as a violent radical ideology. Agreed...much of the world lives in "poverty". Poverty is not a crime. Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Islam is responsible for almost all radicalization. I don't know why some people still can't accept that. Because it's absolute nonsense. It's Islam that's been radicalized, or a branch thereof. I realize it's a radicalizing concept but you're reacting to an effect not a cause. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 If you've seen hypnotist show, they can have a crowd of 500 or so people, maybe 15 or 20 get on stage and maybe 5 are good candidates for being hypnotized. These groups use that similar method. Everything from shammy sales to hypnotists to conspiracy theorists to Joel Osteen, if you have a big enough audience, you'll make at least a few sales. There will always be a certain group of people who are susceptible to easy manipulation. The way western society is portrayed makes it even easier for radical groups to enlist feeble minded people to their cause - whatever that might be. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted October 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 If you've seen hypnotist show, they can have a crowd of 500 or so people, maybe 15 or 20 get on stage and maybe 5 are good candidates for being hypnotized. These groups use that similar method. Everything from shammy sales to hypnotists to conspiracy theorists to Joel Osteen, if you have a big enough audience, you'll make at least a few sales. There will always be a certain group of people who are susceptible to easy manipulation. The way western society is portrayed makes it even easier for radical groups to enlist feeble minded people to their cause - whatever that might be. So you assert that these young people who become "radicalized" and go to fight in another country are feeble minded? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 So you assert that these young people who become "radicalized" and go to fight in another country are feeble minded? Well, I'm glad you asked because...Yes, I do! Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted October 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Well, I'm glad you asked because...Yes, I do! Feeble minded - “unable to make intelligent decisions or judgments.” Synonyms: stupid, idiotic, imbecilic, foolish, witless, doltish, empty-headed, vacuous Is that how you would describe those young Jews who come back to Israel to serve in the IDF? http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/why-do-so-many-diaspora-jews-want-to-join-the-idf-1.283800 I suggest that they are intelligent youngsters looking for relevance and a sense of belonging - be it the American kid travelling to Israel to join the IDF or the American kid travelling to Gaza to fight the Israeli invasion of Gaza. I believe that it has nothing to do with intelligence. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 It also has nothing to do with radicalization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Radicalization is almost entirely due to an individual's cognitive dissonance and moral disgust. It drives people nuts. I can see how listening to democracies that preach about freedom on the one hand while supporting dictators and tyranny with the other could do that. I can also see how a people that are torn between denying or insisting this is what is happening would make it just about impossible for them to not become polarized and eventually even radicalized themselves. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Feeble minded - “unable to make intelligent decisions or judgments.” Synonyms: stupid, idiotic, imbecilic, foolish, witless, doltish, empty-headed, vacuous Is that how you would describe those young Jews who come back to Israel to serve in the IDF? http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/why-do-so-many-diaspora-jews-want-to-join-the-idf-1.283800 I suggest that they are intelligent youngsters looking for relevance and a sense of belonging - be it the American kid travelling to Israel to join the IDF or the American kid travelling to Gaza to fight the Israeli invasion of Gaza. I believe that it has nothing to do with intelligence. Sorry, I didn't know you were going to compare a guy going home to help his country and a dude joining a terrorist organization to behead westerners. You win! BTW - A lot of seemingly intelligent people are easily susceptible to suggestion or manipulation. Level of schooling doesn't necessarily make someone wise or less naive. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted October 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Sorry, I didn't know you were going to compare a guy going home to help his country and a dude joining a terrorist organization to behead westerners. You win! BTW - A lot of seemingly intelligent people are easily susceptible to suggestion or manipulation. Level of schooling doesn't necessarily make someone wise or less naive. Thanks for the response. I do not post to win or lose but to find out what people think and more important, why they think that way. It still fascinates me how many well informed people have to assign mental health issues to explain why people support different causes. Personally, I see no difference in somebody shooting somebody else or beheading them or gutting them with a knife or obliterating with a bomb or strangling them to death or cutting them so they bleed to death or whatever. The intent is to take that life. I also do not understand the difference in commitment of an Israeli soldier who charges into a crossfire and a Palestinian who tapes explosives to his body and runs into the enemy camp. When an individual knowingly gives their lives for a cause in which we believe then we call them a hero and martyr but when another does the same for his/her own cause then we see them as having a mental illness or just plane crazy. I guess this rationalization is based on our discomfort with somebody who is ready to die for a cause. Why are there so many suicide bombers ready to die opposing the West and nobody from the West ready to become suicide bombers for our causes? I would think that if there were that many people prepared and planning to die for a cause that maybe we should take a second look at their cause? "It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." - Sun Tzu Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Personally, I see no difference in somebody shooting somebody else or beheading them or gutting them with a knife or obliterating with a bomb or strangling them to death or cutting them so they bleed to death or whatever. The intent is to take that life. I also do not understand the difference in commitment of an Israeli soldier who charges into a crossfire and a Palestinian who tapes explosives to his body and runs into the enemy camp. When an individual knowingly gives their lives for a cause in which we believe then we call them a hero and martyr but when another does the same for his/her own cause then we see them as having a mental illness or just plane crazy. The differences in the actions are only relevant if you consider the victims. The distinction between shooting or beheading an enemy soldier who is a threat to you is not a big one. Doing either to a POW or a Journalist is a hugely different act, and no comparison, I would say. The same with suicide bombers. Giving your life for your cause by charging an enemy machine gun or flying your Zero into an enemy cruiser, there is no big distinction. Brainwashing some poor prole into carrying the bomb into a market on a Saturday morning because many of the shoppers believe something slightly different from you is a hugely different act, and no comparison, I would also say. Edited October 19, 2014 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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