War Against ISIL

[Derek 2.0]

See now, IMHO this is what constitutes real radicalizing rhetoric. If I was trying to recruit potential jihadists I'd steer them towards reading this sort of stuff - to give them a sense of the motivations and thinking driving their enemies.

Sure, but can they then hate our freedoms even more? Surely even the jihadists that wear the big-boy pants understand the importance of Middle Eastern oil........

[eyeball]

They only hate our freedoms to the extent that we disdain theirs.

You actually blame them?

[Derek 2.0]

They only hate our freedoms to the extent that we disdain theirs.

You actually blame them?

I certainly don't blame ourselves for their savagery.

[bush_cheney2004]

Sure, but can they then hate our freedoms even more? Surely even the jihadists that wear the big-boy pants understand the importance of Middle Eastern oil........

That's the funny part....the jihadists still want oil revenue from the infidels.

[Derek 2.0]

That's the funny part....the jihadists still want oil revenue from the infidels.

And to replace the regions current strongmen with themselves..........if Allah wills it so I suppose.

[Mighty AC]

Agreed.......that is until our economies are fueled by recycled hemp and the laughter of children

Or electricity that is profitable and can be produced at home.

[eyeball]

I certainly don't blame ourselves for their savagery.

Who or what do you think they blame for our's?

[marcus]

Agreed.......that is until our economies are fueled by recycled hemp and the laughter of children

It's time to let go of the old mentality and system and start accepting the better alternatives. Some old guys want to hold onto the old system and milk their monopoly until the very last drop. This, despite the fact that the system is killing our planet and creating conflicts and fueling radicalism and extremism.

The alternatives are going to fully replace the old system in due time, but why not support the better alternative now?

Green energy sector jobs surpass total oil sands employment

Canada’s green energy sector has grown so quickly and has become such an important part of the economy that it now employs more people than the oil sands.

About $25-billion has been invested in Canada’s clean-energy sector in the past five years, and employment is up 37 per cent, according to a new report from climate think tank Clean Energy Canada to be released Tuesday. That means the 23,700 people who work in green energy organizations outnumber the 22,340 whose work relates to the oil sands, the report says.

[Big Guy]

At 9:30 a.m. this morning on CNN under "Breaking News" it was revealed that Iranian forces are part of the attack group going into Tikrit. (Now you know why I often check Al Jazeera for news). They are now announcing what was in this thread a few days ago. The announcers said that "it is difficult to understand" why this is happening and referred to this as a very "awkward" situation.

AWKWARD !!?!?

The White House has yet to comment officially.

Nothing from PM Harper yet either.

A lot of people don't understand what is going on there, but we keep bombing them - who ever they are.

[GostHacked]

Big Guy.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-01/iraq-deploys-27-000-troops-to-retake-tikrit-from-islamic-state

Suleimani, the Iranian commander, has played an increasingly visible role in the fight against Islamic State in Iraq, helping to organize Kurdish and Shiite fighters.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/iraqs-military-begins-campaign-to-reclaim-tikrit-1425287398

Iran took a leading role in the Iraqi military’s largest offensive yet to reclaim territory from Islamic State, throwing drones, heavy weaponry and ground forces into the battle while the U.S. remained on the sidelines.

The operation that began Monday aims to retake Tikrit, best known as the hometown of Saddam Hussein, 80 miles north of the capital Baghdad. In addition to supplying drones, Iran’s powerful Revolutionary Guard force has fighters on the ground with Iraqi units, mostly operating artillery and rocket batteries, according to a U.S. military official. Iraqi Shiite militias closely allied with Iran are also heavily involved.

Iran’s semiofficial Fars news agency reported that Qasem Soleimani, head of the Revolutionary Guard’s overseas unit Quds Force, was on the ground near Tikrit advising commanders.

The offensive is a test of Iraqi security forces’ fitness for the much more daunting challenge of recapturing Mosul, Iraq’s second-largest city.

Well Big Guy, this is an interesting development. Wonder how the US/Israel will spin that.

[GostHacked]

So why would the US media ignore this really important development?

[Derek 2.0]

Or electricity that is profitable and can be produced at home.

Sure, likewise energy fracked or from tarsands.......

[Derek 2.0]

Who or what do you think they blame for our's?

Clearly us.......hence jihad.

[Derek 2.0]

It's time to let go of the old mentality and system and start accepting the better alternatives. Some old guys want to hold onto the old system and milk their monopoly until the very last drop. This, despite the fact that the system is killing our planet and creating conflicts and fueling radicalism and extremism.

The alternatives are going to fully replace the old system in due time, but why not support the better alternative now?

Once said alternatives are cheaper than Middle Eastern crude, I fully agree. The result of Middle East tensions then will clearly be indifference from the rest of the World, much like is shown towards most of Africa.

[eyeball]

Clearly us.......hence jihad.

Why though, what did we do to piss then off so much?

[Derek 2.0]

Why though, what did we do to piss then off so much?

Clearly, as often stated by them, we don't subscribe to their religious beliefs........seems simple enough.

[overthere]

They only hate our freedoms to the extent that we disdain theirs.

You actually blame them?

Now that is not true. They hate us because we exist. Our disdain is not required, we are required to convert or die. Simply loving them is not enough.

At 9:30 a.m. this morning on CNN under "Breaking News" it was revealed that Iranian forces are part of the attack group going into Tikrit. (Now you know why I often check Al Jazeera for news). They are now announcing what was in this thread a few days ago. The announcers said that "it is difficult to understand" why this is happening and referred to this as a very "awkward" situation.

AWKWARD !!?!?

The White House has yet to comment officially.

Nothing from PM Harper yet either.

A lot of people don't understand what is going on there, but we keep bombing them - who ever they are.

What is awkward or difficult to understand? It has been known for a long time that Iran hates and fears ISIS, though for different reasons than us. It's because Iran is a Shia bastion, by far the largest and strongest proponent of that brand of the religion. ISIS are Sunni nutcases, and they are cheerfully killing Irans Shia brethren in Iraq.

Iran has been talking to the west and to other ME nations for a long time about direct involvement in fighting ISIS, and here it is happening.

[Mighty AC]

Sure, likewise energy fracked or from tarsands.......

Might as well produce energy that doesn't kill us and cost society a bundle in 'externalities'.

[Big Guy]

So our partners in our coalition of the dumb, the United States, continues to shoot itself (and their partners) in the foot.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/05/us-mideast-crisis-syria-hazzm-idUSKBN0M10GV20150305

And another bunch of armaments and about 100 anti-tanks missiles go to ISIS. When is somebody in the USA and/or Canada going to sit down and try to understand what they are doing in the Middle East?

And we are still part of this debacle!

We are still being played like a fine fiddle.

[Michael Hardner]

I do not know what we are in this for. What is it that we want to happen? We are now part of a coalition which is giving air support to Iranian troops. Do we want the Iranians to win and take over Iraq? We are in a coalition of the dumb because Harper volunteered us to join in this civil war.

I think the defeat of ISIS is the goal. The other questions are good though, ie. what happens after.

And: It's dumb because Harper is involved ?

- We have become a "USA - me too" country with no solid Canadian foreign policy.

- We should be looking to other Arab states in the region if we want to stay involved and have any influence there. Iranian ground forces and Iran is the only answer to Middle East peace.

- To seek out another Arab state that may be our ally (like Iran) is sane.

These points have validity to me. And the US is indeed reaching out to other countries including Iran which you actually seem to have a problem with.

- We are involved in a civil war into which we have no business to be.

- We do not know who are our allies and who are our enemies yet we drop bombs on them encouraging terrorism on our soil.

- Supporting Israel is a mistake and she will drag us down with her - if we let her.

- To be in a war where do not even know our enemies is insane.

Are you in favour of intervention where civilians are targeted ? If so, then what about ISIS ?

We seem to know who our allies are - you've listed at least one on here.

We have always supported Israel, so I don't know where that is coming from.

I never said that we are now smart - we are still there are we not? Is that smart?

You seem to approve adding Iran to the coalition - do you ?

[GostHacked]

I think the defeat of ISIS is the goal. The other questions are good though, ie. what happens after.

Remember that Afghanistan and Iraq were invaded to pacify the areas as to not be a future hot bed for terrorism. How's that working? Missing Accomplished?

FAIL!

Don't forget Gaddafi is gone too. How well is Libya doing these days? Any terrorism going on there? How about years of smacking Yemen with drone attacks? Yemen free from terrorism? How about Syria?

All these places that western powers have gone in have only created more of a mess over the past 10-15 years.

[Michael Hardner]

Remember that Afghanistan and Iraq were invaded to pacify the areas as to not be a future hot bed for terrorism. How's that working? Missing Accomplished?

FAIL!

So you agree with me that the goal is known. Great.

[GostHacked]

So you agree with me that the goal is known. Great.

The goal they stated? A goal not attainable right from the start.

[Big Guy]

To Michael - To have a goal to destroy ISIS we have to know what ISIS is. ISIS is a movement. ISIS is comprised of Arabs of Sunni belief who want to create a country that consists of people who are Sunni only. How do you win against or destroy ISIS?

Do you kill their leaders? We do not know who they all are and when we do get one or two then another few appear. We do not even know the size of their army. They were supposed to be 20,000 strong with about 2,000 in Tikrit. Right now there are 30,000 Iranian and Iraqi troops having all kinds of problems defeating 2,000 ISIS fighters in Tikrit?

How do you identify soldier of ISIS? We go in, kill a few who have uniforms and then find thousands of uniforms buried in the sand ( or hundreds of thousands like we found in Iraq) . All the others have disappeared into the populace because they are from the populace. They then wait a while planting various IDE's, pick off the invaders soldiers and wait until they leave before the cycle starts all over again.

Am I in "favour of intervention where citizens are targeted? What about ISIS?" - ISIS is Sunni citizens fighting Sunni and Shia citizens. This is not an invasion force coming in from the outside. This is a civil war that has been festering for hundreds of years.

Who are our allies? Actually it would be more important to know who is our enemy. We are dropping bombs on people and we should know if they are enemy, ally or just somebody trying to mind their own business. For us, Iran is an enemy since we are applying sanctions and warning of more action if they do not stop their nuclear initiative but we are part of the coalition dropping bombs on people to protect Iranian ground troops trying to take Tikrit. Does that make sense?

We have not always supported Israel. Up to the current Harper government, Canada has maintained an even handed approach to the Middle East, supporting various UN motions criticizing Israel and others criticizing Palestinians. We have always criticized the Israeli building of settlements on contested land. We had been an "honest broker" in the Middle East before Harper came to power.

I think we are dumb because we are in a civil war - again. We did not learn in Iraq or Afghanistan or Libya (by the way Libya is now a failed state with tens of thousands of deaths since our benevolent bombing).

What I am saying is Canadians - get out of the Middle East and let the Americans try to clean up their own mess. Create a foreign policy that separates us from the actions of Israel and the consequences of those pro-Israeli policies. Open up dialogue with Iran as a partner in the establishment of stability in the Middle East. I have been harping here for weeks that Iran is the key to peace in that area. The only real accomplishment in the success against ISIS has been the Iranian ground troops backed by Iranian armaments.

I believe that Netanyahu would love to see the USA (and probably the "me too" Canadians) get into a war with Iran. The USA has already spend blood and treasure to weaken Israeli enemies - Iraq, Yemen, Libya. Israel is using us to weaken countries in the Middle East, build its own power, alienate moderate Arabs and meanwhile strengthen its military and expand its land.

We are being played like fine fiddle.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Big Guy

[GostHacked]

Well how do you kill an idea, an ideology? That's all ISIS really is. An ideology. A radical extremist interpretation of Islam.

Once people understand that the idea needs to be eliminated they can start to resolve the problem. That will never go away simply by invading, occupation, and destruction of nations accused of harboring terrorism.

Nation building should not come in the forms of military force that causes nothing but destruction. This is a battle for the mind and not really for physical ground.