The HAMAS Charter - Murderous Insanity

[marcus]

Rue is taking everything so personally.

Jacee has a valid point. How does Israel call itself a country if it has never accepted the internationally recognized border? A border that the Palestinians, the rest of the world, including Canada and U.S. accept.

Edited August 19, 2014 by marcus

[marcus]

Zionists have a hard time accepting their roots and their past. One of the reasons Israel came to be was due to the terrorist groups which attacked not only the occupiers, the British but also the natives of the land. They fail to talk about the numerous massacres committed by Jewish terrorist groups whose leaders ended up becoming Israeli prime ministers. Now, they have the audacity to throw their hands in their air and act shocked when the group they are brutally occupying and stealing land from stands up for themselves.

A letter to the Israeli government from a retired terrorist

Ruth Reznik was only 14 when she joined a Zionist militia and took up arms against the British in Palestine. Now, she says, is the time to understand why Gazans are taking up arms against Israel.

[jbg]

Jacee has a valid point. How does Israel call itself a country if it has never accepted the internationally recognized border? A border that the Palestinians, the rest of the world, including Canada and U.S. accept.

Israel accepted the borders on partition. The Arabs immediately invaded. Israel pushed back beyond the borders that the Arabs rejected. Why should the Arabs get a mulligan on their refusal to accept Israel in the first place?

[eyeball]

The same reason you would expect a Mulligan if your home was stolen.

[overthere]

The same reason you would expect a Mulligan if your home was stolen.

When are you leaving the land you now illegally occupy, the land you stole from First Nations?

[overthere]

Its bad enough you do not have the integrity to acknowledge the Hamas Charter or what it stands for and therefore does to its people and Israel's.

Now you want to pretend Hamas does not know where Israel does not exist and Israel does not exist because you say it has no borders.

Its past Alice in Wonderland. At this point its just petulance.

Now you don't just pretend Hamas is not a terrorist group but Israel does not exist.

Brilliant.

Israel's border with Egypt has been the international border demarcated in 1906 between Britain and the Ottoman Empire.

In fact the borders with Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were drawn up by the United Kingdom and France in anticipation of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in the First World War and the carve up of the Ottoman Empire between them.

They are referred to as the 1923 Paulet-Newcombe Agreement borders, being those of Mandate Palestine, which were settled in 1923.

Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan have now been formally recognized and confirmed as part of the peace treaties with those countries, and with Lebanon as part of the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

It is in fact the borders with Syria and the Palestinian territories that remain in dispute.

Israel's borders with the West Bank and Gaza Strip are currently the Green Line, except in East Jerusalem, and the ceasefire line with Syria runs along the UN-monitored boundary between the Golan Heights and Syrian controlled territory.

For Jaceee to pretend the above is not a fact and that Israel does not exist because the above does not in fact exist, is past assinine. Its as I say petulant.

She can hold her breath until she turns blue but they exist.

Bingo

[Rue]

1-Rue is taking everything so personally.

2-jacee has a valid point.

3-How does Israel call itself a country if it has never accepted the internationally recognized border? A border that the Palestinians, the rest of the world, including Canada and U.S. accept.

In regards to 1, no but your comment attempting to projecting feelings on to me are.

In regards to 2, actually no she does not. Its invalid. The law alreddy recognizes Israel as a state and its borders and it also recognizes Israel has the right to safe and secure borders.

In regards to 3, that question indicates you are as mistaken as Jacee's continuing comments and therein lies the problem. The two of you before you come on this board and make such statements or ask such questions need to find out what the international law actually says.

Israel does not dispute its borders with Jordan or Egypt or Lebanon. It does have an on-going dispute with Syria yes. It doesn't mean because of that dispute neither exists as a state. What it means is there is an on-going dispute between two states and the exact borders are yet to be decided-no more, no less. Yes states exist with disputed borders.

Plenty of states have borders in dispute with other states-it does not mean they do not exist. Japan, Russia, China, Vietnam, South and North Korea, Pakistan, China, India, Ukraine, Russia all are engaged in on-going border disputes.

Bolivia still disputes its border with Chile after all these years.

Argentina disputes whether the Falkland Islands is Argentinian or British. Canada and Denmark disagree over where the border should be with certain islands in the North. Russia, Canada and the US have border delienation disputes in the Artic as well.

So its patently absurd and idiotic to suggest a state can not exist with border disputes.

As for the ridiculous attempt to suggest Hamas recognizes Israel's borders, this is of course patently false. Hamas has openly stated it will never recognize not just the Israeli borders but those of Jordan as well.

In regards to Abbas, he has made it clear the only way he will recognize 1967 borders with Israel, is if in fact Israel agrees to stop being a Jewish state. His exact precondition for recognition is that Israel take back in ANY Muslim identifying himself or herself as Palestinian. In otherwords, Abbas will only recognize Israel's 1967 borders if it becomes a Muslim majority population state and he has repeated this over and over again as has the Leagoe of Arab nations which states it will never recognize borders with Israel if its a Jewish state. This is precisely why the PA, Fatah, all the terror cells and Hamas charters call for a Sharia law state where Israel is.

In fact BOTH the PA and Hamas charters call for a Sunni calpihate in Israel, Jordan, the West bank and Gaza.

Interestingly ISIS calls for a Sunni calipahte state in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq and then an eventual reunification of both these caliphates and then an even bigger one extending from Morrocco on one end to Pakistan and Kashmir on the other with chunks of China and Russia too.

Eventually the ISIS and HAMAS charters call for the Islamization of the entire Globe.

Iran and Hezbollah want a Sharia law caliphate in Iran, Iraq, Lebanon and Syria.

Turkey envisions a Sunni Muslim calpihate of all of the mentioned countries plus itself as head.

All one has to do is read the Charters of Hamas, the PA, Fatah, Hezbollah, Iran, Muslim Brotherhood.

The fact that Monty and Jacee want to pretend Abbas or Hamas recognizes Israel let alone the right of independent nations to be sovereign of a large Muslim caliphate state is past absurd.

Then again in their world, one just ignores anything that does not fit in with their reality.

Muhammed in Wonderland.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Rue

[eyeball]

When are you leaving the land you now illegally occupy, the land you stole from First Nations?

I purchased my land legally, from a guy named Ron. Treaties with 1st Nations have been concluded on all the land surrounding me so...are you sure you really understand the issues being discussed here? It doesn't seem like it.

[Rue]

Ron? Yah I knew that guy, He had Alzheimer's. Wife looked like a vampire. The movie he was in with the monkey was a tours de force. He should have won the Oscar.

[Keepitsimple]

Another ceasefire ended by Hamas rockets - once again, they are responsible for the resulting deaths of innocents.

[overthere]

I purchased my land legally, from a guy named Ron. Treaties with 1st Nations have been concluded on all the land surrounding me so...are you sure you really understand the issues being discussed here? It doesn't seem like it.

Ron had no right to the land, he is a thief and so are you by your own logic.

[eyeball]

Hmm well that's certainly news to me.

How do you explain the lack of rockets raining down on my property? There hasn't been a single one in 35 years.

Edited August 20, 2014 by eyeball

[jbg]

The same reason you would expect a Mulligan if your home was stolen.

So essentially you are conceding that Israel will never be left in peace?

[eyeball]

I gave up on hope for peace in the ME decades ago.

It's long past time for the rest of the world to move on.

Edited August 20, 2014 by eyeball

[dre]

When are you leaving the land you now illegally occupy, the land you stole from First Nations?

<facepalm/>

[dre]

So essentially you are conceding that Israel will never be left in peace?

No nation that behaves the way Israel does will ever be left in peace.

[Rue]

Once again Dre you show you are on this board to defend Hamas. If your comment had any credibility it would not simply point the finger at Israel. It would make the exact same comment about all the Islamic nations and the many terrorist organizations.

Instead you simply spit out an Israel insult. Now and then when confronted, you play the who me not neutral response claiming you are critical of Hamas but then your revert right back to the one sided baiting and name calling. In fact you never miss an opportunity to show with such comments how lacking in any credibility or sincerity you are.

Your words just reflect another anti Israel shrill,

[Rue]

Eyeball your comment that native people do not shell you with rockets means what?

What that is your rationalization for claiming your right to land and your way of life is superior and you are in the position to question Jews for choosing to live in a Jewish state?

Is that it Bwana?

Lol. I am sure you can invite Dre over for some drinks and enjoy your highly evolved and mutually beneficial relationship.

Here's the problem. While Dre ignores the corruption rampant in his own 'peoples'" nations and you get all smug and snitty over your living in peace with the "natives" let's try explain something to you.

The native peoples in Canada have a legal system that makes rockets unecessary. They continue their disputes over land titles in court.

Of course that one soared right over your head like a rocket.

Hamas has always had the option to take land titles disputes to court. It will not and has refused. It has stated openly that in its version of law, in its version of Sharia law to be exact, Jews are dhimmi. They can not own land ever or even consider being equal in ANY legal rights to Muslims.

Zip over your head with another rocket.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Rue

[eyeball]

The native peoples in Canada have a legal system that makes rockets unecessary. They continue their disputes over land titles in court.

Yes I thought I made that quite clear when I said treaties with 1st Nations have been concluded on all the land surrounding me so...

Of course that one soared right over your head like a rocket.

Whose head?

[Big Guy]

There are those who feel that Israel was defending itself when it invaded Gaza and others who support the Palestinian argument of virtual imprisonment, attempted genocide and taking of their land.

The point is that it is becoming a PR war with both sides rationalizing their behaviour. Both sides seem to have arguments that are questionable but firmly believed by their supporters in the UN and on this board.

Unless you are a fanatical supporter of Israel or a fanatical supporter of Hamas there are many questions that have not been answered on both sides. Unfortunately, the dialogue, instead of bringing the sides closer together is further entrenching each side into opposite and uncompromising positions. Meanwhile, more people are getting killed, rockets continue to fly and airplanes drop bombs.

Now reports are that the leader of Hamas was targeted but missed and his wife and child were killed. That is going to go a long way towards a peaceful settlement.

General consensus is that the longer this latest conflict appears to be a tie then the more beneficial to Hamas. If that is the case, then the Hamas agenda is being satisfied.

[Keepitsimple]

There are those who feel that Israel was defending itself when it invaded Gaza and others who support the Palestinian argument of virtual imprisonment, attempted genocide and taking of their land.

The point is that it is becoming a PR war with both sides rationalizing their behaviour. Both sides seem to have arguments that are questionable but firmly believed by their supporters in the UN and on this board.

Unless you are a fanatical supporter of Israel or a fanatical supporter of Hamas there are many questions that have not been answered on both sides. Unfortunately, the dialogue, instead of bringing the sides closer together is further entrenching each side into opposite and uncompromising positions. Meanwhile, more people are getting killed, rockets continue to fly and airplanes drop bombs.

Now reports are that the leader of Hamas was targeted but missed and his wife and child were killed. That is going to go a long way towards a peaceful settlement.

General consensus is that the longer this latest conflict appears to be a tie then the more beneficial to Hamas. If that is the case, then the Hamas agenda is being satisfied.

Just another attempt at creating some sort of moral equivalency between Hamas - a terrorist organization that through its own public charter has sworn to nothing less that the complete elimination of the state of Israel and the killing of any and all Jews......and a country that has been under continued attack since it's creation. Hamas continues to sacrifice Palestinian women and children - simply to create outrage in the pliant western media. Even before the end of the last ceasefire, rockets flew......and innocents again started to die as a result.

[Argus]

Bingo!

The 'race' card has been played!

I don't care what kind of state Israel calls itself, but if Israel wants to call itself a state at all, it better

accept its legal borders

and stay within them!

.

Like Russia?

[Big Guy]

Just another attempt at creating some sort of moral equivalency between Hamas - a terrorist organization that through its own public charter has sworn to nothing less that the complete elimination of the state of Israel and the killing of any and all Jews......and a country that has been under continued attack since it's creation. Hamas continues to sacrifice Palestinian women and children - simply to create outrage in the pliant western media. Even before the end of the last ceasefire, rockets flew......and innocents again started to die as a result.

I attempt nothing. In my eyes, there is a moral equivalency when both sides are prepared to kill innocent women and children to attain their ends.

"... simply to create outrage in the pliant western media." - That is their agenda.

You and/or I might not like it but they are being successful. I am only stating what I observe.

Please do not take the line that "either you are with me or against me". There are many other positions.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Big Guy

[Keepitsimple]

I attempt nothing. In my eyes, there is a moral equivalency when both sides are prepared to kill innocent women and children to attain their ends.

"... simply to create outrage in the pliant western media." - That is their agenda.

You and/or I might not like it but they are being successful. I am only stating what I observe.

Please do not take the line that "either you are with me or against me". There are many other positions.

If you accept that that's the Hamas agenda - then why say there is "moral equivalency"? There may be many nuances depending on your particular bias.....but don't lose track of the facts when innocents die. Hamas simply does not care about the deaths of innocents - they invite it and according to some sources, they demand their own people to accept "martyrdom". Israel on the other hand - goes to lengths never before seen in any conflict to minimize the "collateral damage". That doesn't make Israel the "good guy" - but it certainly defines Hamas for what they are - a murderous cancer not far removed from the heinous criminals of ISIS.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[Big Guy]

If you accept that that's the Hamas agenda - then why say there is "moral equivalency"? There may be many nuances depending on your particular bias.....but don't lose track of the facts when innocents die. Hamas simply does not care about the deaths of innocents - they invite it and according to some sources, they demand their own people to accept "martyrdom". Israel on the other hand - goes to lengths never before seen in any conflict to minimize the "collateral damage". That doesn't make Israel the "good guy" - but it certainly defines Hamas for what they are - a murderous cancer not far removed from the heinous criminals of ISIS.

Both sides claim that their goal is to protect their people. As to "Hamas simply does not care about the deaths of innocents", I have no idea what is in the minds of the Hamas government and "terrorists" or the minds of the Israeli government or the military generals.

One side calls the death of innocents of the other side to be "retribution" while the other side describes the death of innocents of the opposition as "collateral damage". No matter what you call them they are still dead.

I say that there is a moral equivalency. Both sides rationalize that the means that they are employing justifies the end that they are seeking. There is a moral equivalency - one of outrageous immoral action.