kidnapped Israeli teens bodies found

[Shady]

That asks an interesting question - how are the Israelis finding those tunnels so they can destroy them?

The same way the U.S. border patrol finds tunnels from Mexico.

[jbg]

That asks an interesting question - how are the Israelis finding those tunnels so they can destroy them?

The same way the U.S. border patrol finds tunnels from Mexico.

Actually I'm surprised and disappointed that Mossad didn't find out about the building of these tunnels earlire and use the information to mount this operation on a more prompt basis.

[jacee]

Strawman are you kidding.....Last time i checked Israel was a sovern nation , which when you boil it down means no tunnels regardless of what they are using them for unless authorized by the Israelis government........Which also means they can blow them when they are found at any time, without permission from anyone....why is that so hard to wrap your mind around....instead you deflect any oppostion by saying they are humanitarian tunnels for food, fuel etc.....Who cares, the tunnels themselfs are not suppose to be there.

I just don't think you really grasp the situation in Gaza:

1.7m people live there in a small, densely populated strip of land. The majority are from refugee families evicted from Israel after 1948 when the 'Jewish homeland' was created.

Gaza ids blockaded by Israel which controls all movement of goods. People scramble to survive with shortages of basic necessities, under the very oppressive control of Israel.

Their circumstances are simply not tolerable, and so they constantly struggle against Israel's control and usd the tunnels for necessary supplies blockaded by Israel.

And to attack Israel ... their oppressor.

.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Their circumstances are simply not tolerable, and so they constantly struggle against Israel's control and usd the tunnels for necessary supplies blockaded by Israel.

Sure....tell the Sub-Saharan Africans how bad it is in Gaza. Gaza makes Haiti look like a relative paradise, no ?

[Shady]

Gaza ids blockaded by Israel which controls all movement of goods. .

No that's not true. Israel and Egypt share borders with Gaza. Perhaps you should ask yourself why Egypt also closes it's border? And these necessary supplies you talk about. They get them from tunnels to Israel? Also, do rockets count as necessary supplies?

[dre]

Sure....tell the Sub-Saharan Africans how bad it is in Gaza. Gaza makes Haiti look like a relative paradise, no ?

<facepalm/>

[jbg]

I just don't think you really grasp the situation in Gaza:

1.7m people live there in a small, densely populated strip of land. The majority are from refugee families evicted from Israel after 1948 when the 'Jewish homeland' was created.

Gaza ids blockaded by Israel which controls all movement of goods. People scramble to survive with shortages of basic necessities, under the very oppressive control of Israel.

Their circumstances are simply not tolerable, and so they constantly struggle against Israel's control and usd the tunnels for necessary supplies blockaded by Israel.

And to attack Israel ... their oppressor.

.

It was certainly no better on Nasser's watch, except for the unrestrained reproduction that has occurred since that time. The Jews absorbed their refugees. The Arabs kept theirs in squalid camps so that exactly what is happening now would occur.

I frankly don't see why people don't get it; Israel is a civilized country, and the surrounding countries, by and large, are not. In all of these countries or quasi-countries the leaders live in splendor while the common people live in abject misery. While the leaders of Jordan in the 1990's and Egypt in the 1970's established official relations with Israel, the children have continued to be supplied with inflammatory literature such as "Protocols of the Elders of Zion." And not many books are translated into Arabic.

There is no equivalence here. Israel has tried to and succeeded in building a state. The Arabs have very few or no successes in this regard. To read this thread and this board, the anti-Israelis ignore the role of the Arabs in worsening if not creating their problems.

[Big Guy]

The same way the U.S. border patrol finds tunnels from Mexico.

Is that why half of Mexico is in the USA?

One of the reasons that Israel is giving fore invading Gaza is to find and destroy the tunnel networks. It appears that they do not have the technology to find them. So what is going to happen after the troops go back to Israel and the Hamas comes out of hiding?

http://www.haaretz.com/business/.premium-1.606658

Just found a very interesting video on details of those tunnels;

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2014/04/gaza-tunnels-201441772150756893.html

Edited August 6, 2014 by Big Guy

[On Guard for Thee]

Sure....tell the Sub-Saharan Africans how bad it is in Gaza. Gaza makes Haiti look like a relative paradise, no?

No. Obviously you have never been to the places you speak of and you just spout more of that old American ignorance.

[On Guard for Thee]

Many places in sub Saharan Africa are paradises compared to Haiti or Gaza.

[bush_cheney2004]

Gazans have it so bad compared to Haiti:

Gaza Strip GDP per capita = 6100 USD

Haiti GDP per capita = 740 USD

...poor Gazans....send them some money to buy more rockets.

Gaza City:

Haiti:

Edited August 6, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

Actually I'm surprised and disappointed that Mossad didn't find out about the building of these tunnels earlire and use the information to mount this operation on a more prompt basis.

Who's to say the Mossad had not taken advantage of the tunnels themselves? A little false flag provocation perhaps?

[dre]

Gazans have it so bad compared to Haiti:

Gaza Strip GDP per capita = 6100 USD

Haiti GDP per capita = 740 USD

...poor Gazans....send them some money to buy more rockets.

Gaza City:

Haiti:

Oh jesus... MLW just got hit by another "stupid rocket"... This time anecdotal images designed to show how great life in Gaza is ROFLMAO.

[Rue]

Jacee your lectures to others on what Gaza is and how it was created are based on what you read. You depend on some internet articles that reflect a political bias you agree with and your knowledge ends there.

.

The internet world is sanitary and it provides you no idea what Gaza smells like, what death smells like, what sewage smells like, You have no idea what Hamas is, and how they operate and hold their people hostage.

Your political bias will not allow you to acknowledge why Nasser created the GAza strip and what he did to the Palestinians let alone what Hamas has done to its people.

In your script you selectively ignore everything in history and parrot a script that makes it oh so easy for you-you know, you have it figured out. Its all so simple-the bad Jews of Israel did 'it", i.e., anything and everything you care to blame them for.

The Arab world did nothing to Palestinians to create the situation they are in. Hamas? They are just boy scouts.

Your credibility was rendered absurd when you came on this board demanding Israel abide by a 10 year truce with Hamas ignoring the fact that at the time you were doing this "advocacy" Hamas had just broken its 4th truce with Israel and used it as a cover to kill soldiers.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Rue

[Rue]

Dre you of course would prefer pictures of screaming Gaza children-as long as the pictures suit your political bias.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Rue

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh jesus... MLW just got hit by another "stupid rocket"... This time anecdotal images designed to show how great life in Gaza is ROFLMAO.

That's the whole point.....the Haitians don't launch "stupid rockets". They are poor...but not stupid.

[Army Guy]

I just don't think you really grasp the situation in Gaza:

1.7m people live there in a small, densely populated strip of land. The majority are from refugee families evicted from Israel after 1948 when the 'Jewish homeland' was created.

Gaza ids blockaded by Israel which controls all movement of goods. People scramble to survive with shortages of basic necessities, under the very oppressive control of Israel.

Their circumstances are simply not tolerable, and so they constantly struggle against Israel's control and usd the tunnels for necessary supplies blockaded by Israel.

And to attack Israel ... their oppressor.

.

I may not be the best source of info, but i've been to Gaza in the late 80's while on tour with MFO....i've seen the conditions, and once felt like you do, angry at israel , then my opinon was quickly changed in the wake of the bombings by then PLO....another group of nice guys, Can we get a source on "they were evicted from Israel in 1948 " please. because that is not what my history book is showing.....

Israel does not control the movement of all goods within Gaza. It does whowever control all goods coming and going from Israel, again that is their sovern right to trade with whom ever they want.

As for the Airport it was destroyed long ago by Israel airforce, in reprisal for attacks...the Port area in Gaza was being used to smuggle in rockets so Israel blockads it , inspecting all cargo to ensure no wpns ammo, rockets get in.....Over the years PLO and Hamas have brought upon themselfs great pain, you poke the bear and you'll get handled roughly....if you want to shed tears for them great....but the rest of us don't want to here it, our eyes have already been opened. And while Israel is far from inocent in all of this matter....Hamas has taken this to new levels...

Circumstances are tolerable, the people are still there, still living the status quo....still no one is reaching out for peace...your 10 year plan does not count....

[Rue]

Army what you saw is pretty much what was there when I was there. Not much has changed. What makes it insane is that Gaza could be a self perpetuating city. It had an infrastructure that was built and working in the 1990's before the Hamas cell from Syria violently took over Hamas and tore it all down and got rid of all the Hamas charities or Hamas members who were against terror as a political tool. They did at one point working with Israel offer an alternative to the corrupt PLO.

That was the point. When it became evident to Gaza citizens they could work in Israel and live side by side with them in peace. the terrorist cells blew that all up rather than lose their reason to exist.

This is about terror groups deliberately blowing up Gaza and rendering its people dehumanized to recreate an environment that offers only despair to the people to fuel an environment to promote the vision that its impossible to live with Jews side by side as equals.

Jacee has no clue what Hamas did to peaceful Muslims in Gaza who denounced terror. Not a friggin clue.

She has no clue how the leader of Hamas screamed out at the top of his lungs that any Gaza citizen who reached out or cooperated with Israel was traitor to be killed while sending his brother in law, children and grandchildren to Israel for medical treatments.

I was one of those who said, don't treat the sob's family let them go to Europe but Israel has a medical policy it will not turn away any Palestinian patients who come and ask for treatment.

Jacee needs to spend a few days with both Israelis and Palestinians. She never will. That's the thing I find. People who claim to be experts on others live in antispectic segregated and sheltered neighbourhoods where everyone is an albino .

Edited August 6, 2014 by Rue

[Argus]

You dont bother reading the thread. I already specifically mentioned the "attack" tunnels from Gaza into Israel. Try to pay attention and follow along maybe?

Yes, and so I said then you shouldn't wonder why Israel is involved in operations to destroy them.

You people snivel all the time about the civilian casualties but you shy away from any suggestion of what the hell else Israel is supposed to do about such things other than go after Hamas.

[dre]

Yes, and so I said then you shouldn't wonder why Israel is involved in operations to destroy them.

Man... its hard to even tell what youre talking about. Where did I "wonder why Israel is involved in operations to destroy them"? Did you accidentally reply to someone else? Imaginary voices in your head maybe?

[Rue]

Dre the continuing poster you do not support Hamas and its tactics in the words you have posted on this forum is absurd.

What next do you want people to start cutting and pasting your past comments on Hamas?

Really?

Guess what-you aren't that important.

You have made it clear where you stand on Hamas.

Even funnier you won't dare come on this forum and state you condemn what Hamas did and what it stands for. You won't criticize its charter or its beliefs. Not you.

But you will continue this who me support Hamas charade.

Your position reminds me of the other great debater Alfred E. Neuman and his motto-what me worry?

[GostHacked]

You are not that important either Rue.

[Big Guy]

t

You are not that important either Rue.

What !!!!

Are you saying that no one opinion is more important than another opinion posted here and that one poster is more important then another poster?

Then what is the use of preparing these fully researched essays to try to prove that _____ is an ignorant jerk, that the ____ wingers are nuts and that the __________ government is at fault for this conflict between ______ and ______?

If I can't be seen as more important and better informed than ______, then why bother posting?

[Rue]

Well Ghost so I am not important. Golly and gee and gosh er roo. Still waiting for your explanation how Israel and the IDF exploit the death of Israeli soldiers.

Not that your throwing out allegations you can't back up is important or anything like that,

[dre]

Dre the continuing poster you do not support Hamas and its tactics in the words you have posted on this forum is absurd.

What next do you want people to start cutting and pasting your past comments on Hamas?

Really?

Guess what-you aren't that important.

You have made it clear where you stand on Hamas.

Even funnier you won't dare come on this forum and state you condemn what Hamas did and what it stands for. You won't criticize its charter or its beliefs. Not you.

But you will continue this who me support Hamas charade.

Your position reminds me of the other great debater Alfred E. Neuman and his motto-what me worry?

Yet MORE wretching and bleating.

This has nothing to me with me or anyone else supporting Hamas. I dont support either side in Conflict: Dirtfarm, or any of the lousy things those idiots to to each other, and Iv never posted anything to the contrary. I havent read their charter, but

You on the other hand DO support groups like Hamas, by supporting Israeli policies that keep militant groups in Palestine relevant and some-what popular. People like you and the hardliners on the OTHER side interestingly enough have a kind of symbiotic relationship. You cant exist without each other. Theres a wierd kind of irony in it.