kidnapped Israeli teens bodies found

Boges · July 21, 2014

Hezzbolah and Lebanon don't seem to be a huge problem for Israel anymore though.

Black Dog · July 21, 2014

Not the civilians, but I think attempted to completely eliminate the Hamas element in the area is a good policy.

As I said: removing Hamas from the equation wouldn't really make a difference to the peace process aside from taking away the one thing Israel can use to justify its continued expansion beyond the 1967 Green Line.

bush_cheney2004 · July 21, 2014

First Nations take note.....unsettled land claims and decades of abuse justify the use of rocket attacks..... according to some here.

dre · July 21, 2014

Is that an excuse for targeting innocent civilians with rocket attacks? And if a group were firing rockets at downtown Montreal, would you be ok with Canada just giving in to their demands? There's a reason governments don't negotiate with terrorists. Under absolutely no circumstances, can you reward the targeting of innocent civilians. This legitimizes those tactics and puts everyone at risk.

Is it an excuse? I dont know... You and I are westerners and the biggest problem we face is whether to supersize our fries or not.

But I would hazard to guess that if a foreign country used force to establish a colony in Toronto or Vancouver that the "civilians" living there would not be very safe EITHER.

You also have to realize that Hamas doesnt really TARGET anyone. The purpose of those rocket attacks is political and they know as well as anyone else that the chances of those rockets actually hitting anything are next to zero. If I blindly fire my rifle into a huge forest am I targeting deer?

This is a political chess game. Hamas wants to goad Israel into a heavy handed response so that they can use the death of civilians to their political advantage. Israel knows this, but they are also under huge political pressure to respond - even though they know these rocket attacks are a non-threat, and they know they are helping Hamas.

Edited July 21, 2014 by dre

jbg · July 21, 2014

Well... you clarified your inability to read at least. Israel has a claim to ALL of its territory. It just doesnt have a claim to any of the territory its conquered, and the reality is it officially asserts no claim. Even Israel does not claim that the west bank or Gaza are Israeli soil (with some exceptions). So this idea that palestinians should go somewhere else is really just beyond stupid.

Here is what you said:

What a stupid question. Palestinians already have a territory. Its where they live and were born. And it WAS carved out of an Arab state. Israel has no legal or just claim to ANY of it.

That means to me that you're saying that Israel was carved out of an Arab state and has no just claim to "any" of their land.

Argus · July 21, 2014

Maybe Israel should end the military occupation and siege of 4 million peoples land? Do you really expect palestinians to do nothing while more and more of their land is conquered/colonized?

The Palestinians have said repeatedly they will never agree to peaceful coexistence with Israel unless they get Jerusalem, and unless they have the 'right of return'. They have been absolutely unbending on the first, and mostly unbending on the second. Since they refuse to accept peace, why would Israel set them free to import as many weapons as they want? Then, instead of firing off rockets at Israel they'd have artillery, tanks and aircraft.

Big Guy · July 22, 2014

Over the last 13 years, there have been 28 Israelis killed, mostly civilians, by rocket attacks from Palestinians.

Over the last 13 years, there have been about 4,000 Israelis killed in traffic accidents.

In the 2008-9 invasion of Gaza by Israel, 10 Israeli soldiers were killed and about 1,500 Palestinians (mostly women and children) were killed by Israeli soldiers.

In this latest invasion, there have already been 20 Israeli soldiers killed and about 500 Palestinians (mostly women and children) have been killed by Israeli soldiers.

There have been more Israeli soldiers killed in invading Gaza these last two times, in an attempt to stop those rockets, than Israeli civilians killed by those rockets in 13 years.

The invasion in 2008 obviously did not work then why should the invasion of 2014 work?

Could the reason for these invasions be other than stopping those rockets?

Hal 9000 · July 22, 2014

Over the last 13 years, there have been 28 Israelis killed, mostly civilians, by rocket attacks from Palestinians.

Over the last 13 years, there have been about 4,000 Israelis killed in traffic accidents.

In the 2008-9 invasion of Gaza by Israel, 10 Israeli soldiers were killed and about 1,500 Palestinians (mostly women and children) were killed by Israeli soldiers.

In this latest invasion, there have already been 20 Israeli soldiers killed and about 500 Palestinians (mostly women and children) have been killed by Israeli soldiers.

There have been more Israeli soldiers killed in invading Gaza these last two times, in an attempt to stop those rockets, than Israeli civilians killed by those rockets in 13 years.

The invasion in 2008 obviously did not work then why should the invasion of 2014 work?

Could the reason for these invasions be other than stopping those rockets?

Any invasion that Israel attempts will be successful, unfortunately for them they did the same thing as Bush#1 with Iraq and that is taking their foot of their necks only to see them rebuild and pull the same shit. Had Bush killed Hussein in 1991/2, there would've been no Iraq pt.2 - but I digress.

Israel has been a target for nearly every hard line Arab country and despotic group in the mid east. Iran actually stood at the UN and threatened them. Israel has to fight back no matter what, it's all the Arab nations understand. Obama has allowed Iran to proceed with their nuclear bomb program, and Israel will no doubt face the threat from Iran in the future.

If Israel seems to be getting medieval on Hamas, it's because they feel they have to. And I agree.

P.S - Don't trust all the "civilian" numbers

Edited July 22, 2014 by Hal 9000

On Guard for Thee · July 22, 2014

First Nations take note.....unsettled land claims and decades of abuse justify the use of rocket attacks..... according to some here.

Takin' a little poke at Canada are we? Havin' a little fun are we? Looks like everybody has pushed the "ignore" button on that one, yet again.

Argus · July 22, 2014

Over the last 13 years, there have been 28 Israelis killed, mostly civilians, by rocket attacks from Palestinians.

Over the last 13 years, there have been about 4,000 Israelis killed in traffic accidents.

I see. So they should just ignore the rockets, is that your opinion?

Boges · July 22, 2014

I see. So they should just ignore the rockets, is that your opinion?

Ignore them and they'll go away. Iron Dome FTW.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Boges

Hal 9000 · July 22, 2014

Over the last 13 years, there have been 28 Israelis killed, mostly civilians, by rocket attacks from Palestinians.

Over the last 13 years, there have been about 4,000 Israelis killed in traffic accidents.

Every single month in the US, there are more traffic deaths (Approx 3,000) than the number of people killed in the 9/11 attacks.

And, nearly a half million dead from traffic accidents in the US since 9/11.

I must be missing your point!

jbg · July 22, 2014

Obama has allowed Iran to proceed with their nuclear bomb program, and Israel will no doubt face the threat from Iran in the future.

Israel will make quite sure that Iran's program never gets off the ground. Ask Iran how many of its "scientists" die in hunting accidents, accidental car explosions and the link.

If Israel seems to be getting medieval on Hamas, it's because they feel they have to. And I agree.

Israel's first loss in war will be its last.

P.S - Don't trust all the "civilian" numbers

You're not impressed by the fish wife shrieking of the Palestinian mothers? Many are so proud that their offspring martyr themselves.

WestCoastRunner · July 22, 2014

it doesn't matter that Hamas uses human shields? That's sick.

It's not the innocent civilians fault. Why kill them?

If we had female leaders over there, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

WestCoastRunner · July 22, 2014

If Palestinians have to die in order for Israel to stop the rockets then those Palestinians - who wholeheartedly support Hamas firing rockets - are just going to have to die.

Innocent families are being killed, thousands have been displaced. How do you know these civilians support Hamas firing rockets?

WestCoastRunner · July 22, 2014

The tide has turned slightly towards support for Pakistan. Social media has had a big impact on this swaying of public opinion. We can now really see how the Palestinians live on a day to day basis. Videos, pictures and commentary are being upload for the world to see. Many people are now questioning Israel's tactics and these same people are looking at this conflict through the eyes of Palestinians.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is ever so slightly losing the war of public acceptance.

cybercoma · July 22, 2014

It's not the innocent civilians fault. Why kill them?

If we had female leaders over there, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

you tell me. Why is Hamas targeting them in Israel and using them as shields in Palestine?

jacee · July 22, 2014

Is that an excuse for targeting innocent civilians with rocket attacks? And if a group were firing rockets at downtown Montreal, would you be ok with Canada just giving in to their demands? There's a reason governments don't negotiate with terrorists. Under absolutely no circumstances, can you reward the targeting of innocent civilians. This legitimizes those tactics and puts everyone at risk.

If they're firing rockets because they're living under oppressive controls ... it might be wiser to address those conditions rather than bomb and kill many innocent children.

.

bush_cheney2004 · July 22, 2014

They would fire rockets anyway...Gazans live far better than many more millions of sub-Saharan Africans, who don't seem obsessed with rocket attacks.

Boges · July 22, 2014

If they're firing rockets because they're living under oppressive controls ... it might be wiser to address those conditions rather than bomb and kill many innocent children.

.

I'm sure Hamas would say, oh you're providing more aide? OK we're good now.

Apparently calls for a ceasefire now include the promise of lots of foreign aid.

At this point Israel should probably finish this though, if they stop now, it'll just happen again.

GostHacked · July 22, 2014

Israel will make quite sure that Iran's program never gets off the ground. Ask Iran how many of its "scientists" die in hunting accidents, accidental car explosions and the link.

The kind of activity that takes out another nations scientists is pure terrorism.

Black Dog · July 22, 2014

Israel's first loss in war will be its last.

What power in the region has the ability to defeat Israel on the battlefield?

You're not impressed by the fish wife shrieking of the Palestinian mothers? Many are so proud that their offspring martyr themselves.

A pillar of humanity you are.

Argus · July 22, 2014

It's not the innocent civilians fault. Why kill them?

If we had female leaders over there, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

A female Arab leader? LOL! The first time she tried to tell a man what to do she'd be beaten to death.

However, Israel has had a female leader, Golda Meir, and she was not noticeably kind and gentle.

Big Guy · July 22, 2014

Argus, on 21 Jul 2014 - 9:44 PM, said:

I see. So they should just ignore the rockets, is that your opinion?

As I have mentioned before, I try to look at conflicts as I would analyze a chess game in progress. There are no good guys and bad guys. In this conflict, there are the Palestinian nationalists who want their land back, want Israel to not be there and to take control of their own lives.

There are the Israeli nationalists who feel they have full rights to what they consider is their land and perhaps more.

The Israeli tactic seems to be to push the Palestinians into a box in Gaza, keep them contained and build more settlements on land that is in dispute. The Palestinian tactic seems to keep world focus on their complaints by lobbing rockets into Israel and enticing the Israeli military to invade Gaza and kill more innocent civilians.

Israel has been successful in that they have been able to isolate the Palestinian nationalists into a small strip of land and expand Israeli claim to more land by building those settlements. The Palestinians have been successful in gaining more and more world sympathy to their cause with their proclivity for martyrdom at the hands of Israelis.

Negotiations are only useful when there is a desire of both sides for a solution. That situation does not exist at the moment.

Possible end result permanent solutions;

Israel exterminates all the Palestinians in Gaza but keeps the land from being contaminated for future settlement.

The Palestinian nationalists (with the help of some other country) either convince Israel to find another area of the world to create their nation or find some way to annihilate their population and resettle that land.

Israel has the military and capability to achieve their possible final solution but they are still dependent somewhat on the financial support of the USA and some other Western countries. When they no longer need that support then they will be free to act.

The Palestinian nationalists do not currently have the military or capability to achieve their final solution. If they are able to sway world opinion (or at least get the support of one of those Middle East countries with chemical weapons) it may eventually gain that capability.

There are no good guys or bad guys in this conflict - just lots of dead guys.

I am looking for the next move in that deadly chess game.

Argus · July 22, 2014

Innocent families are being killed, thousands have been displaced. How do you know these civilians support Hamas firing rockets?

It really doesn't matter. The people there support Hamas firing rockets into Israel, therefore, they really shouldn't complain when Israel retaliates.