ISIS Declares Islamic State.

[bush_cheney2004]

Typical of what?

Typical of parroting back American policies from the American media that you obviously consume (another Sunday morning is upon us, eh?). Where is the "Canadian content" ? People from around the world come here to get a Canadian perspective, not just regurgitated American culture and references. What happened to "human rights" or the "responsibility to protect", and all that other original CanCon programming ? Defining Canada's policy in terms of what the Americans will or will not do is a typical cop out.

[GostHacked]

The Canadian media is crap when it comes to reporting on the problems of the USA. So why not get it from the horse's mouth?

[Big Guy]

Typical of parroting back American policies from the American media that you obviously consume (another Sunday morning is upon us, eh?). Where is the "Canadian content" ? People from around the world come here to get a Canadian perspective, not just regurgitated American culture and references. What happened to "human rights" or the "responsibility to protect", and all that other original CanCon programming ? Defining Canada's policy in terms of what the Americans will or will not do is a typical cop out.

I was wrong. What kind of person would go out of their way to create an Avatar that is obviously "American" - bush_cheney2004 - USA!, USA!, USA! and use it to try to create problems between Canada and our brothers to the South? It certainly would not be an American who wishes the best for the USA. It has to be someone whose job is to agitate to try to get Canadians to get upset with Americans.

Perhaps I should address this poster as Ali to correctly identify his heritage. I do not think you should be able to get away with that and achieve your agenda. Because of that I have reported this threat of intentionally inciting hate against the USA to CSIS. They have to means to see if you are a serious threat or not.

https://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/bts/thrt_frm-en.php

At least there will be more people reading your posts.

[Big Guy]

Well I'm not privy to national security files but I do know the UK has ratcheted it's security threat level up to one notch below the max. based on what they seem to know about IS intentions. The reason I rather glossed over Big guys multi ?'s is becase first, that's his schtick and often they are redundant, but more importantly I would imagine the important ones have been assessed and also that if spend forever dithering and naval gazing a lot of people are going to die. They have a lot of high grade arms and they have avowed their hatred for the west and they don't mind beheading people and putting it on Youtube. I'm not sure we need a whole lot more evidence to do something!

Lots of luck. These are the same guys who decided to get into combat in Afghanistan, bomb Libya and wanted to go into Iraq when another party was in power. I also believe that there is a big difference between "doing something" and helping alleviate the problem.

BTW These are not my questions, they are suggested by Colin Powell who I consider one of the smartest military men the Americans have produced;

1.Is a vital national security interest threatened?

I can see no VITAL security interest. These are about 20,000 desert fighters.

2.Do we have a clear attainable objective?

No. I would assume that the objective is to destroy ISIS. How do you destroy a movement? How will you know that “it” is destroyed. Who is ISIS? Just what is their strength? Who is backing them? None of this is “clear”.

3.Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?

We do not know. These are the same decision makers that sent Canadians into Afghanistan as a “clean-up” having considered the risks and costs? You trust them?

4.Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?

Who knows? Have our people been in touch with Iran or Syria to see what assistance they are willing to provide in ground troops?

5.Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?

Yes? The same one we used in Afghanistan?

6.Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?

I have not seen any debate or any information from our government of the possible consequences of our actions.

7.Is the action supported by the Canadian people?

No. The majority of Canadians do not support Canadian boots on the ground in Iraq, Libya or Syria.

8.Do we have genuine broad international support?

Not nearly. If there was broad international support then the Arab states would be involved. There is no support from the “friendly” countries in the area.

I believe that getting involved in this civil war is a mistake.

[Rue]

Dre I did not blame or even suggest Obama created the Sunni-Shiite civil war. Stop misstating what I said and trying to create a new meaning.

Better yet stick to trying to pedal your own opinions. Do not pose as if you restated what I said.

What I stated and I will state again is that the creation of ISIS not the dispute between Shiites and Sunnis or the centuries of infighting between Muslims as you wrongfully stated I said, . is a direct creation as a result of a policy of Obama and Erdogan. I was talking about the creation and evolution of the group known as ISIS not anything else and yes both Obama and Errdogan are directly responsible for its financing, training and original operations.

The two deliberately prevented aid from the original Sunnis fighting Assad and chose instead to side with the Muslim Brotherhood's choice, ISIS, which is in fact nothing more then an assortment of terror cells of Sunni extremists left over from the Iraq war including Al Quaeda its no.1 source of manpower. These are not Syrians but non Syrians.

Any idiot realizes the internal violence not just between Sunnis and Shiites, but between Shiites, between Sunnis, and between either Sunnis and Shiites with non Muslims has been going on since Islam evolved and began preaching that anyone who did not follow Muhammed's teachings was an infidel going to hell and not worthy of equal rights with Muslims.

Run along Dre and apologize for Hamas.

When Obama decided to support the Muslim Brotherhood and Erdogan and finance ISIS he triggered a chain reaction of empowerment among radical Sunni extremists instead of the Muslim utopia he and Erdogan envisioned.

Muslim extremist groups in the Middle East are a myriad of thousands of extremist cells, each with its own self appointed leader quoting the Koran. some have formed ISIS. The multiple cells in ISIS are a loose confederation with no central command.

They are coalitions that come together and separate non stop continually mutating in structure and size.

The only common pattern of ideology that has emerged in this maze of Muslim extremist rhetoric is a shared hatred of anything Western in value and the belief that the world must be ruled by a Muslim dhumma, one Muslim caliphate or state run my an Islamic council of clergymen following Sharia law. How that sharia law is to be interpreted differs between the sects but what they all agree on is that women are inferior, anyone non Muslim is inferior (a dhimmi or khafir) and thnon Muslims should pay a dhimmi tax to be allowed to live as non Muslims. They also believe all Jews, not just so called "Zionist" Jews are infidel who lie and follow the wrong son of Abraham and need to be cleansed off the planet.

The ideology is presented each day in the media, and in the speeches, statements, articles, and declarations of these groups.

Dre you have no clue what a Muslim extremist is let alone the origins of Islam. I doubt you even met a Muslim let alone a Jew.

You certainly never lived with either.

Run along Dre you can't figure out the stars aren't where you think they are when you gaze upon the horizon.

By the way Dre those are called figs and dates.

Genius. They are not wolves...Canaan Dogs.

Another genius who thinks he knows the desert.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Rue

[marcus]

Stop misstating what I said and trying to create a new meaning.

Better yet stick to trying to pedal your own opinions. Do not pose as if you restated what I said.

Says Rue.

[Rue]

Very good Marcus. You at least got that right.

[Big Guy]

At this point in time ISIS is in control of land in Iraq, Syria and bordering directly on Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Turkey.

Let us assume that the USA (with Canadian help) does what it has just promised to do – wipe out ISIS. That would leave a large vacuum where ISIS was in control.

Which country is going to send their ground troops into the void to take control? Jordan or Syria or Saudi Arabia or Iran or Turkey or .....?

Are the USA and Canada going to decide who gets that land?

How are they (we) going to enforce their choice?

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/the-many-ways-to-map-the-islamic-state/379196/

[On Guard for Thee]

At this point in time ISIS is in control of land in Iraq, Syria and bordering directly on Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Turkey.

Let us assume that the USA (with Canadian help) does what it has just promised to do – wipe out ISIS. That would leave a large vacuum where ISIS was in control.

Which country is going to send their ground troops into the void to take control? Jordan or Syria or Saudi Arabia or Iran or Turkey or .....?

Are the USA and Canada going to decide who gets that land?

How are they (we) going to enforce their choice?

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/the-many-ways-to-map-the-islamic-state/379196/

First of all I don't know which "party" you are referring to who wanted to go into Iraq in your previous post. Chretien was in power and said non. And do you think the so called void you speak of is better filled by a bunch or religious fanatical murderers? Take out ISIS and then let a post Malaki (inclusive) government assume power. You can sit around and play the blame game about mistakes made previously, many by the US I will concede, but how many innocent people are going to be shot and thrown into a mass grave because they don't line up with ISIS psycho Islam? And how long before they solidify their position in the east, and then turn their attention to the west? You do remember that 9-11 thing right?

[bush_cheney2004]

I was wrong. What kind of person would go out of their way to create an Avatar that is obviously "American" - bush_cheney2004 - USA!, USA!, USA! and use it to try to create problems between Canada and our brothers to the South?

Indeed...what kind of Canadian person chooses an "Avatar" image from American pop culture ? So far, there is very little coming from you that is authentically Canadian at all, save for the usual contempt and disdain for America that historically is the very basis of forming an identity to the North.

[bush_cheney2004]

...BTW These are not my questions, they are suggested by Colin Powell who I consider one of the smartest military men the Americans have produced;

More Americana....nothing original here.

[overthere]

Chretien was in power and said non.

Did he really say that?

Though no declaration of war was issued, the Governor General-in-Council did order the mobilization of a number of Canadian Forces personnel to serve actively in Iraq.^[2] On 31 March 2003, it was reported in Maclean's that in the previous month Canadian officers, aboard three frigates and a destroyer, had been placed in command of the multinational naval group Task Force 151, which patrolled the Persian Gulf region. A further 30 Canadians worked at the US Central Command in Qatar, and 150 troops were on exchange with US and British forces in proximity to combat.^[4]North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) stationed Canadian Air Force pilots also flew combat missions with the US Air Force E-3 Sentry, and exchange officers fought with US units. Canadian pilots also flew Boeing C-17s into Iraq to "season" the flight crews

[Big Guy]

Indeed...what kind of Canadian person chooses an "Avatar" image from American pop culture ? So far, there is very little coming from you that is authentically Canadian at all, save for the usual contempt and disdain for America that historically is the very basis of forming an identity to the North.

Hey Ali, that's not my problem. CSIS has been alerted and they will deal their American counterparts. They are very interested in the use of social media and the Internet by subversives trying to agitate and create problems between our great nations. If you are just some guy in a basement somewhere in Mimico getting off on taunting, teasing and creating a dislike for Americans then they will find that out. On the other hand if you have darker motives and a longer term agenda then they will do something about that.

I do not have the tools, they do. I understand that they do act on every report. I leave it in their hands. I can only alert them to the possibility.

[Big Guy]

First of all I don't know which "party" you are referring to who wanted to go into Iraq in your previous post. Chretien was in power and said non. And do you think the so called void you speak of is better filled by a bunch or religious fanatical murderers? Take out ISIS and then let a post Malaki (inclusive) government assume power. You can sit around and play the blame game about mistakes made previously, many by the US I will concede, but how many innocent people are going to be shot and thrown into a mass grave because they don't line up with ISIS psycho Islam? And how long before they solidify their position in the east, and then turn their attention to the west? You do remember that 9-11 thing right?

Personally what party did what to whom is of no interest to me. That is history. I point out the mistakes because we should learn from them and not repeat them. I do not know how many innocent people are going to be shot and thrown into a mass grave. Every day there are thousands of innocent people somewhere around this world who are killed and many are not even thrown into graves. People around the world are not only beheaded but tortured, skinned, burned, buried alive and starved to death.

When did Canada become the nation " which keeps innocent people from being killed and thrown into mass graves"?

I do not want to try to frame your position in an unclear manner so, I appears to me that you believe that if Canada does not get involved then ISIS will expand in the area, gain strength through some manner and attack Canada? If I misread your position then please correct me.

I heard that same argument and logic with the war in Vietnam. North Vietnam won that war and the domino effect never took place - even after all those Americans and Canadians were killed.

BTW - Why are Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Oman, Eritrea, Dubai et al not sending troops to stop this 20,000 army that intends to take over the world? ISIS would certainly have to take them over before invading Canada.

As to 9/11, that kind of tragedy or attack or reaction or assault or murderous excursion or terrorist victory or ... That kind of thing happens when we stick our nose into somebody else's civil wars. Most of the folks in that part of the world do not want us there. Perhaps it is more believable coming from Bin Laden himself;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

And another (American) point of view;

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-673275

Edited September 7, 2014 by Big Guy

[bush_cheney2004]

...I do not have the tools, they do. I understand that they do act on every report. I leave it in their hands. I can only alert them to the possibility.

Agreed...you are most impotent when it comes to such things. Keep using American tools and culture to stay informed.

[bush_cheney2004]

And another (American) point of view;

Of course....America is the gift that keeps on giving to nervous brothers and sisters to the North.

[bush_cheney2004]

When did Canada become the nation " which keeps innocent people from being killed and thrown into mass graves"?

Soon after it explicitly didn't do so in Rwanda. It is now a NATO pretense for policy action(s).

Edited September 7, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Big Guy]

Agreed...you are most impotent when it comes to such things. Keep using American tools and culture to stay informed.

Of course....America is the gift that keeps on giving to nervous brothers and sisters to the North.

Hey Ali, now that I know where your taunts are coming from and why, I leave it to others to take your statements seriously. You guys get educated in the USA and then use that education against us.

اذهب الى الجحيم

[On Guard for Thee]

Personally what party did what to whom is of no interest to me. That is history. I point out the mistakes because we should learn from them and not repeat them. I do not know how many innocent people are going to be shot and thrown into a mass grave. Every day there are thousands of innocent people somewhere around this world who are killed and many are not even thrown into graves. People around the world are not only beheaded but tortured, skinned, burned, buried alive and starved to death.

When did Canada become the nation " which keeps innocent people from being killed and thrown into mass graves"?

I do not want to try to frame your position in an unclear manner so, I appears to me that you believe that if Canada does not get involved then ISIS will expand in the area, gain strength through some manner and attack Canada? If I misread your position then please correct me.

I heard that same argument and logic with the war in Vietnam. North Vietnam won that war and the domino effect never took place - even after all those Americans and Canadians were killed.

BTW - Why are Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Oman, Eritrea, Dubai et al not sending troops to stop this 20,000 army that intends to take over the world? ISIS would certainly have to take them over before invading Canada.

As to 9/11, that kind of tragedy or attack or reaction or assault or murderous excursion or terrorist victory or ... That kind of thing happens when we stick our nose into somebody else's civil wars. Most of the folks in that part of the world do not want us there. Perhaps it is more believable coming from Bin Laden himself;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

And another (American) point of view;

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-673275

Turkey is already part of the 10 nation coalition. Most of the other countries you mention are certainly not part of NATO, so I guess you'd have to assume they didn't get to the meeting. Iran has already sent troops to Iraq. Talk about "politics making strange bedfellows" when Iran and the US can see eye to eye on something. Even they realize these guys are a threat and need to be stopped.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hey Ali, now that I know where your taunts are coming from and why, I leave it to others to take your statements seriously. You guys get educated in the USA and then use that education against us.

اذهب الى الجحيم

Of course.....it is delightful to read posts from the nervous northerners who dread that their ruling party may finally pull the trigger on Iraq (or Ukraine), without hesitation or purpose of evasion. It's America's fault....they make us do these things ! "Damn Americans...I hate those bastards".

[Big Guy]

Turkey is already part of the 10 nation coalition. Most of the other countries you mention are certainly not part of NATO, so I guess you'd have to assume they didn't get to the meeting. Iran has already sent troops to Iraq. Talk about "politics making strange bedfellows" when Iran and the US can see eye to eye on something. Even they realize these guys are a threat and need to be stopped.

I do not disagree with you that they have to be and will be stopped but where we differ is by whom.

This whole situation would be a joke if it wasn't so tragic. Now I see American Senators declaring that the USA should be bombing ISIS in Syria because it won't help Assad because we will only kill the bad rebels (the ones who ... are bad) and not the "good" rebels. We have no idea who is on "our" side and what side we are supporting.

These are not the conditions under which to get involved in this conflict.

[Big Guy]

Of course.....it is delightful to read posts from the nervous northerners who dread that their ruling party may finally pull the trigger on Iraq (or Ukraine), without hesitation or purpose of evasion. It's America's fault....they make us do these things ! "Damn Americans...I hate those bastards".

انك لم يخدع أحدا

Edited September 7, 2014 by Big Guy

[bush_cheney2004]

These are not the conditions under which to get involved in this conflict.

Too late....Canada is already running guns and supplies via RCAF airlift. Nervous northerners are literally sweating bullets.

[-1=e^ipi]

Perhaps I should address this poster as Ali to correctly identify his heritage. I do not think you should be able to get away with that and achieve your agenda. Because of that I have reported this threat of intentionally inciting hate against the USA to CSIS. They have to means to see if you are a serious threat or not.

https://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/bts/thrt_frm-en.php

At least there will be more people reading your posts.

Wow, way to waste tax payer money on your nonsense delusions. Don't you think CSIS has better things to do?

[Big Guy]

Too late....Canada is already running guns and supplies via RCAF airlift. Nervous northerners are literally sweating bullets.

لديك أي فكرة عما تتحدث