This week in Islam

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

Scroll back up to my reposes to Dialamah.

Your response was to a website that equated anything Muslim with implementation of Sharia law in Canada - it was complete garbage. There is no Sharia law in Canada - period.

[Omni]

27 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Your response was to a website that equated anything Muslim with implementation of Sharia law in Canada - it was complete garbage. There is no Sharia law in Canada - period.

Yeah I guess when you arrive at a site called billion bibles you might expect a "touch" of bias. Kinda looks like the breitbart of religious websites to me.

[The_Squid]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

Scroll back up to my reposes to Dialamah.

Please be specific.  Where in Canada is there Sharia Law?

[Michael Hardner]

I am going to ask my question again because it may actually answer the question of the thread:

 

Does anybody here think religion is the only cause of this violence OR alternately that it is not a factor ?

 

Please identify yourself.

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Omni said:

I think Leitch's concept is as silly as Harper's "snitch line" idea was. And you are aware Canada does screen the refugees before they are allowed to come to Canada.

No, it does not. Not in any way which examines their social views and values.

[Argus]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am going to ask my question again because it may actually answer the question of the thread:

I already answered your question and you ignored my answer.

[Argus]

8 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Shoved?  I've been shoved.

This is how they come up with these bizarre sorts of statistics. The widen the defintion to include everything from being pushed to being yelled at. Then they equate that with women in the third world being beaten half to death, having acid thrown in their face or set on fire and say "See!? We're just as bad!"

By the way, using the same criteria, I'm willing to bet even more Canadian men have been the 'victims' of spousal assaults from women.

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by Argus

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am going to ask my question again because it may actually answer the question of the thread:

 

Does anybody here think religion is the only cause of this violence OR alternately that it is not a factor ?

 

Please identify yourself.

Which violence?  Are you referring to a specific act in a specific post, or general violence attributed to Muslims?

Then you'd have to define what you mean by religion. 

To me, if religion can said to be the cause of an act it means the act is carried out in the name of a religion, in defence of the religion, or for the purposes of meeting the requirements of the religion as laid out by the supreme authority.  Not so hard in the case of Catholicism, say, because there is one.  Harder in the case of Islam, but as the saying goes, I know it when I see it.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

I already answered your question and you ignored my answer.

I don't always respond.  If I don't disagree then why would I respond ?

Anyway, you didn't answer it exactly - my question is can we blame these things on religion alone or can we see that religion has nothing to do with it at all.

So far nobody has taken either option, I think.

[Omni]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

No, it does not. Not in any way which examines their social views and values.

Well it certainly does screen for background checks, health issues etc., as to social values neither you or I can state factually how far that is probed.

[Argus]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't always respond.  If I don't disagree then why would I respond ?

Anyway, you didn't answer it exactly - my question is can we blame these things on religion alone or can we see that religion has nothing to do with it at all.

So far nobody has taken either option, I think.

Religion does not exist in a vacuum. It is informed by and informs culture. The problem is in knowing which is influencing which. In the case of Islam, spread over 57 countries with numerous widely different cultures, we have to say that the only thing all have in common is Islam. All these countries have the same kind of misogynistic and narrow minded social values with regard to women, sexuality and other moral imperatives, and all discriminate against non Muslims. 

So while one cannot state positively without hesitation that Islam alone is responsible I think that baring any other reasonable explanation we have to accept that it is. This is the Sherlock Holmes definition of evidence, of course.

[Argus]

Just now, Omni said:

Well it certainly does screen for background checks, health issues etc., as to social values neither you or I can state factually how far that is probed.

Given what someone posted earlier about the very ill refugees now taking advantage of our health insurance system I don't think we screen for health issues. I don't know how you'd do a background check on someone who lived in a small town in Syria anyway. Unless he or she is on an international terrorist watchlist with their fingerprints on record you basically got nothing. And if they screened for social values I think someone would have said that during the long and detailed media conversation about Leitch's proposal.

[Michael Hardner]

Barring any other explanation.... would require looking for another one.  There are at least co-factors as we can say that countries with similar levels of ... desperation let's say ... can also have similar problems.

So your answer is somewhat nuanced but you seem to pull back from saying religion is THE cause.  Anyone else ?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Barring any other explanation.... would require looking for another one.  There are at least co-factors as we can say that countries with similar levels of ... desperation let's say ... can also have similar problems.

So your answer is somewhat nuanced but you seem to pull back from saying religion is THE cause.  Anyone else ?

Well, like I said, if religion can said to be the cause of an act it means the act is carried out in the name of a religion, in defence of the religion, or for the purposes of meeting the requirements of the religion as laid out by the supreme authority.  Not so hard in the case of Catholicism, say, because there is one.  Harder in the case of Islam, but as the saying goes, I know it when I see it.

[Omni]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

Given what someone posted earlier about the very ill refugees now taking advantage of our health insurance system I don't think we screen for health issues. I don't know how you'd do a background check on someone who lived in a small town in Syria anyway. Unless he or she is on an international terrorist watchlist with their fingerprints on record you basically got nothing. And if they screened for social values I think someone would have said that during the long and detailed media conversation about Leitch's proposal.

Educate yourself a little bit.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2349421/heres-how-refugees-are-screened-before-arriving-in-canada/

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, Omni said:

Educate yourself a little bit.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2349421/heres-how-refugees-are-screened-before-arriving-in-canada/

Nothing that cite contradicts what I said. They are checked against a database and given an interview about 'past associations'. This is clearly designed to catch terrorists. But we're not talking about terrorists. We're talking about farmers. They won't have papers and they won't be on any databases, and they won't have social media records to look at. And there's nothing in your cite which even suggests they are interviewed about their social values.

[Omni]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

Nothing that cite contradicts what I said. They are checked against a database and given an interview about 'past associations'. This is clearly designed to catch terrorists. But we're not talking about terrorists. We're talking about farmers. They won't have papers and they won't be on any databases, and they won't have social media records to look at. And there's nothing in your cite which even suggests they are interviewed about their social values.

Well first of all it shows that we do screen for health issues which is a direct contradiction of what you said. But I get the impression that anyone with other than pasty white skin wouldn't pass any kind of muster with you. 

[Argus]

8 minutes ago, Omni said:

Well first of all it shows that we do screen for health issues which is a direct contradiction of what you said.

If they are screened its only for communicable diseases since we apparently don't have a problem with the aged, the blind and the mentally ill.

The father, Mohamad el Rafaie, has been physically disabled since birth. His arms and hands did not fully develop. His wife, Shamia el Rafaie, is a full-time caregiver to their older daughter Heba, 7, who was born blind. They have one other daughter, Lema, who is 4.

One floor up, the el Ebrahim family faces a similar set of circumstances. The family matriarch, Amona Ali, is 104 years old. Her son, Hagy, 63, was a clerk at an electricity company in Syria and said through a translator that given his inability to speak English, it is unlikely he will be able to work in Canada. His wife, Shakha and daughter, Fatima, are full-time caregivers to not only Ali, but also two of the couple’s five children, both adults who are mentally ill and unable to care for themselves.

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/mental+illness+disabilities+struggle+some+syrian+families/11779813/story.html

 

Quote

But I get the impression that anyone with other than pasty white skin wouldn't pass any kind of muster with you. 

Same old brainless self-righteous moralistic SJW accusations we always get when you can't figure out how to respond to an argument with anything intelligent.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Argus

[Omni]

31 minutes ago, Argus said:

Nothing that cite contradicts what I said. They are checked against a database and given an interview about 'past associations'. This is clearly designed to catch terrorists. But we're not talking about terrorists. We're talking about farmers. They won't have papers and they won't be on any databases, and they won't have social media records to look at. And there's nothing in your cite which even suggests they are interviewed about their social values.

Interesting how you seem to speak out about the faulty policies of Trump, but then seem to be so in line with his immigration policies. Should we build a wall here as well?

[GostHacked]

On 11/25/2016 at 10:55 AM, DogOnPorch said:

It's disgusting some of the commentary I've seen. Islam is so peaceful, wishing death on everybody.

I don't think you can complain about commentary. Should read some of your own posts.

[DogOnPorch]

52 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

I don't think you can complain about commentary. Should read some of your own posts.

 

You're free to re-post said disgusting posts...but you won't because there aren't any. This is just a chance for you to conduct a personal attack upon myself while defending Islam. Well done, GH.

[Goddess]

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/muslim-student-filed-bias-crime-report-to-avoid-curfew-punishment/ar-AAlBhXq

 

Quite a few of these stories have proven to be hoaxes.

While I don't doubt that these things are going on, I don't understand how filing false claims is helping Muslims out...what are they thinking??

[betsy]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't always respond.  If I don't disagree then why would I respond ?

Anyway, you didn't answer it exactly - my question is can we blame these things on religion alone or can we see that religion has nothing to do with it at all.

So far nobody has taken either option, I think.

As I've responded to your same question - violence involving terrorism is caused by religion.  Allah Akbar is their battle cry!  The terrorists claim to be doing their jihad for their god!

 

If the terrorists are stating their motive for their violence is religion - then, why shouldn't we think it is?

Edited December 15, 2016 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

52 minutes ago, Goddess said:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/muslim-student-filed-bias-crime-report-to-avoid-curfew-punishment/ar-AAlBhXq

 

Quite a few of these stories have proven to be hoaxes.

While I don't doubt that these things are going on, I don't understand how filing false claims is helping Muslims out...what are they thinking??

More afraid of Daddy's firm pimp-hand than Donald Trump.

[Goddess]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

More afraid of Daddy's firm pimp-hand than Donald Trump.

She's probably safer in prison now, than risking being honour killed by the father.