This week in Islam

[The_Squid]

I think it's in very poor taste. Wouldn't buy it.

.

Who asked what you thought of it or if you'd buy the magazine? Funny that you gave an answer to a question that wasn't asked.....

[msj]

Waiting for jacee to honestly answer may be like waiting for Godot if you know what I mean.

But this is another opportunity to post this to educate people about some of Charlie Hebdo covers since people claim they are in "very poor taste" when they may be unaware as to their meaning.

http://www.understandingcharliehebdo.com/#des-cons

Edited February 10, 2015 by msj

[Bob Macadoo]

But not in favour of others insulting their religion.

Do you think cartoons like the ones in Charlie Hebdo should be hate crimes?

I think hate crime is inappropriate as I don't think its true they write this to inspire the destruction of an identifiable group but perhaps a case could be made to a HR Tribunal. Material promoted with an expectation of producing public harassment of an identifiable group.....though a stretch is more in line. I don't agree with it either but I could see some want legislation for that.

[Mighty AC]

This group wants cartoons to be considered hate crimes if they insult their religion. So yeah, they are not in favour of free speech.

Oh I think they are in favour of expressing themselves freely.

Peaceful protest is free speech and that's great. However, they are using their right to speak freely to ask for limits on free speech. That's a problem, but only if granted. The right to practice a religion requires protection but religious ideas themselves do not. Ideas need to be discussed openly. That way the bad ideas and their promoters can be cast out via logic, criticism and ridicule.

Similarly, I think it was a mistake for various countries to criminalize holocaust denial.

[jacee]

Peaceful protest is free speech and that's great. However, they are using their right to speak freely to ask for limits on free speech. That's a problem, but only if granted. The right to practice a religion requires protection but religious ideas themselves do not. Ideas need to be discussed openly. That way the bad ideas and their promoters can be cast out via logic, criticism and ridicule.

Similarly, I think it was a mistake for various countries to criminalize holocaust denial.

Nobody says they'really going to get what they want, but you want to deny them their right to free speech?

.

[Mighty AC]

Nobody says they'really going to get what they want, but you want to deny them their right to free speech?

.

Squid stated the protesters were asking for limits to free speech and you were stating that protest is free speech. Two different points, and I commented on both...did you even read it?

Peaceful protest is free speech and that's great. However, they are using their right to speak freely to ask for limits on free speech. That's a problem, but only if granted.

[msj]

Squid stated the protesters were asking for limits to free speech and you were stating that protest is free speech. Two different points, and I commented on both...did you even read it?

Think it's obvious she didn't.

.

[msj]

Anyway, back to the premise of the thread.

This week in Islam some dude called it as it is: ISIS is motivated by religion/Islam.

Just as anyone who has read the Koran would say (and I have read it and I do say it).

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2015/02/10/all-this-barbarity-is-sacred-a-muslim-journalist-dares-to-say-that-isis-is-motivated-by-religion/

Next week in Islam: Egyptian journalist burned to death for calling it as it is.....but it still has nothing to do with religion (obviously, of course).

[jacee]

Anyway, back to the premise of the thread.

This week in Islam some dude called it as it is: ISIS is motivated by religion/Islam.

Just as anyone who has read the Koran would say (and I have read it and I do say it).

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2015/02/10/all-this-barbarity-is-sacred-a-muslim-journalist-dares-to-say-that-isis-is-motivated-by-religion/

Next week in Islam: Egyptian journalist burned to death for calling it as it is.....but it still has nothing to do with religion (obviously, of course).

It has to do with violence.

.

[Michael Hardner]

This week in Islam - three Muslims killed in so-called 'hate crime'

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/11/murder-of-three-young-muslims-in-north-carolina-raises-claims-of-hate-crime-suspected-shooter-charged/

[Bonam]

This week in Islam - three Muslims killed in so-called 'hate crime'

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/11/murder-of-three-young-muslims-in-north-carolina-raises-claims-of-hate-crime-suspected-shooter-charged/

Read to the bottom of the article:

Some have gone as far as to call the act a “hate crime,” but that was before police said the suspect motive was a parking dispute between neighbours.

Yes, no doubt some people will keep calling it a hate crime, but other than the fact that the victims happened to be Muslim, is there anything to support the allegation?

[eyeball]

This story reminds me of how warships of nations on the verge of war will feint and dodge at such close quarters that a simple misunderstanding, miscalculation or mistake is all that's required to ignite a catastrophe.

[Mighty AC]

Read to the bottom of the article:

Some have gone as far as to call the act a “hate crime,” but that was before police said the suspect motive was a parking dispute between neighbours.

Yes, no doubt some people will keep calling it a hate crime, but other than the fact that the victims happened to be Muslim, is there anything to support the allegation?

The shooter's wife believes it was rage over the on going parking dispute, but it seems like he was an angry and unstable dude in general. He railed against gun control and religion, but mainly Islam, on Facebook. It may be hard to prove that it was a hate crime directed at a minority group, but it seems likely that the religion and ethnicity of the victims played a role.

[eyeball]

It's probably safe to conclude their ethnicity didn't contribute much to his capacity to control himself.

[WIP]

Waiting for jacee to honestly answer may be like waiting for Godot if you know what I mean.

But this is another opportunity to post this to educate people about some of Charlie Hebdo covers since people claim they are in "very poor taste" when they may be unaware as to their meaning.

http://www.understandingcharliehebdo.com/#des-cons

Maybe he noticed the same thing I did: there are too many Islam and Muslim-bashing threads to keep track of all this BS! For example, how many threads do we need to discuss Charlie Hebdo cartoons?

I don't want to spend all my time on the topic of pointing fingers at the other guy (and ignoring the ones that point back at us), so I'm pretty much where I started before the massacre at their HQ: real comedy and real satire does not necessarily comfort the afflicted, BUT it sure as hell afflicts the comfortable!

I keep hearing endlessly how the Hebdo group are liberals...as if that matters a damn; but real liberal standup comics and comedy writers that I pay attention to, focus most of their comedy wrath on the rich and powerful, NOT the visible and religious minorities in a society....that's the comedy job of the fascists...Republican comedy, or Neonazi nationalist comedy in the French example.

[WIP]

The shooter's wife believes it was rage over the on going parking dispute, but it seems like he was an angry and unstable dude in general. He railed against gun control and religion, but mainly Islam, on Facebook. It may be hard to prove that it was a hate crime directed at a minority group, but it seems likely that the religion and ethnicity of the victims played a role.

I heard Osama Bin Laden was an angry and unstable dude!

[Mighty AC]

I heard Osama Bin Laden was an angry and unstable dude!

That's the word on the street.

[msj]

Maybe he noticed the same thing I did: there are too many Islam and Muslim-bashing threads to keep track of all this BS! For example, how many threads do we need to discuss Charlie Hebdo cartoons?

I don't want to spend all my time on the topic of pointing fingers at the other guy (and ignoring the ones that point back at us), so I'm pretty much where I started before the massacre at their HQ: real comedy and real satire does not necessarily comfort the afflicted, BUT it sure as hell afflicts the comfortable!

I keep hearing endlessly how the Hebdo group are liberals...as if that matters a damn; but real liberal standup comics and comedy writers that I pay attention to, focus most of their comedy wrath on the rich and powerful, NOT the visible and religious minorities in a society....that's the comedy job of the fascists...Republican comedy, or Neonazi nationalist comedy in the French example.

Ha! I saw on Twitter the other day something to the effect that Islam is chalk full of true Scotsmen.

And here you go on using the term "real."

Sure, your opinion is that the covers are not funny.

If you read the link you will find that they aren't really meant to be.

They are darkly serious for those who take the time to actually educate themselves about the issues.

As for your "punch up not down" BS - well it is BS.

All ideas should be held up to scrutiny and ridicule no matter who believes in them.

Edited February 13, 2015 by msj

[Shady]

1 dead in Denmark after cartoonist attacked for drawing Muhammad.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/02/14/copenhagen-cafe-shots-fired/23408677/

But don't worry, it has nothing to do with Islam!

[Guest]

They were art critics!

[Argus]

1 dead in Denmark after cartoonist attacked for drawing Muhammad.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/02/14/copenhagen-cafe-shots-fired/23408677/

But don't worry, it has nothing to do with Islam!

And since he was already in a good jihad mood he had to go and kill a Jew. After all, what good Muslim jihadist passes up the chance to kill a Jew or two? Maybe that'll get him an extra virgin or two in heaven!

Edited February 15, 2015 by Argus

[Guest]

At least they nailed the bastard. Arrested a few accomplices too, according to some reports.

[msj]

This week, a contrast:

In Norway something positive with more than 1,000 Muslims coming together at a Jewish synagogue: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/02/21/group-of-norway-muslims-pledges-to-protect-oslos-only-synagogue/

At least it beats the 500 who showed up to the Copenhagen gunmans' funeral: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/02/21/i-do-not-see-him-as-a-terrorist-five-hundred-mourners-attend-funeral-of-copenhagen-gunman/

Good to see the former. Reminds me of something I saw on Twitter: if Islam is the religion of peace then its fundamentalists would be pacifists.

The latter's not so good.

Edited February 22, 2015 by msj

[The_Squid]

I heard Osama Bin Laden was an angry and unstable dude!

Was he actually "unstable"?

He seemed pretty cold and calculating to me...

[Mighty AC]

This guy is doing it right! Mr. Nawaz is a model for us all, by honestly acknowledging problems with his religion and actively working to fix them. Imagine the good that could be done if more members of all organizations from political parties, to religions to the local hockey or soccer association stopped making excuses for their group and demanded change and accountability.

"The way to tackle Muslimphobia, is to tackle Muslimphobia. Not by pretending Islamist extremism doesn't exist, which only increases Muslimphobia. If this --> http://t.co/zd2otL2hBL indicates 11% British Muslims sympathize with fighting Western interests. Don't obfuscate. Don't pretend that's ok. It doesn't help anyone, least of all British Muslims." - Maajid Nawaz