Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 17 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: When would you accept it was Islam? If the person seemed lucid, no record of mental health issues hearing voices and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Just now, Michael Hardner said: If the person seemed lucid, no record of mental health issues hearing voices and so on. The religious NEVER hear voices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: The religious NEVER hear voices. The mentally ill do, often times. Â I stated my principle, what is yours ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: The mentally ill do, often times. Â I stated my principle, what is yours ? That he's a Muslim? Oh I dunno...the beard...the keffiyeh...the Tawhid to the camera. Call me crazy... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: That he's a Muslim? Oh I dunno...the beard...the keffiyeh...the Tawhid to the camera. Call me crazy... Not my question - when do you blame the mental illness vs. when you accept what the perpetrator says is his motivation ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Just now, Michael Hardner said: Not my question - when do you blame the mental illness vs. when you accept what the perpetrator says is his motivation ? The murderer says he is innocent: case closed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: The murderer says he is innocent: case closed. I'll ask again what your principle is for a third and final time. If you don't have one, or don't want to tell me then I will believe that principles aren't a part of your world view. Â That means you can easily hold a double-standard for assessing people's behavior, policy, etc. Â It's fine to live that way, and to express opinions according to that framework. I don't do it, because if I did people wouldn't want to discuss things with me as they know I was advocating for one side and wouldn't change my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: What is your principle behind accepting mentally ill people's rationale for their action ?  When do you accept it and when don't you ? Personally, my standard is when the doctors say he is. For example, the crazy Muslim who killed his sisters last month in Ottawa was declared unfit to stand trial last week. I'm fine with that. The guy in Florida had apparently been under the treatment of the shrinks before the attack. Apparently for the same reason as the guy in Ottawa. Then there's the common sense approach, which is if he was a terrorist and wanted to shoot people he could have done it in Alaska before getting on the plane. Edited January 7, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: I'll ask again what your principle is for a third and final time. If you don't have one, or don't want to tell me then I will believe that principles aren't a part of your world view. Â That means you can easily hold a double-standard for assessing people's behavior, policy, etc. Â It's fine to live that way, and to express opinions according to that framework. I don't do it, because if I did people wouldn't want to discuss things with me as they know I was advocating for one side and wouldn't change my opinion. Â Hey...you're allowed your opinion. My position is that the fellow was a Muslim who went off the rails like all the rest we've seen and subsequently blamed on mental illness. It's a rinse and repeat cycle. If Islam makes folks 'crazy'....I'd say that's Islam's problem rather than my 'principles'...or lack there-of as you suggest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, Argus said: Personally, my standard is when the doctors say he is. For example, the crazy Muslim who killed his sisters last month in Ottawa was declared unfit to stand trial last week. I'm fine with that. The guy in Florida had apparently been under the treatment of the shrinks before the attack. Apparently for the same reason as the guy in Ottawa. Then there's the common sense approach, which is if he was a terrorist and wanted to shoot people he could have done it in Alaska before getting on the plane. Not a lot of Jews in Alaska. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, Argus said: Personally, my standard is when the doctors say he is. For example, the crazy Muslim who killed his sisters last month in Ottawa was declared unfit to stand trial last week. I'm fine with that. The guy in Florida had apparently been under the treatment of the shrinks before the attack. Apparently for the same reason as the guy in Ottawa. Then there's the common sense approach, which is if he was a terrorist and wanted to shoot people he could have done it in Alaska before getting on the plane. These are principles that you can apply to any situation. The opposite approach is to state an opinion that shades reality towards your version of politics.  It makes one look like a shill with a predictable response to every situation.  There's really no end goal in discussions with such people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: My position is that the fellow was a Muslim who went off the rails like all the rest we've seen and subsequently blamed on mental illness. It's a rinse and repeat cycle. If Islam makes folks 'crazy'....I'd say that's Islam's problem rather than my 'principles'...or lack there-of as you suggest. I didn't ask you to assess this event, which you already have. Â I asked you to state a principle you use to assess these things in general, but moving on. I guess it's my opinion that people who don't change their minds provide less interesting discussions with me - you're right about that. Â I'm going to go write a letter to Ringo and Paul McCartney now blaming them for Charlie Manson. Â See you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) He's fresh out of the hospital and no doubt needs a chuckle. Ringo...Paul didn't write "Piggies"...that was George. Edited January 7, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Not a lot of Jews in Alaska. He wasn't aiming at Jews. He was just shooting at people who got off the plane with him, mostly tourists from Minnesota. If you want to kill Jews I bet there are synagogues in Alaska, and probably largely undefended. It's not exactly high on the target list. Edited January 7, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Argus said: He wasn't aiming at Jews. He was just shooting at people who got off the plane with him, mostly tourists from Minnesota. If you want to kill Jews I bet there are synagogues in Alaska, and probably largely undefended. It's not exactly high on the target list. Â His words: I'm not Jewish. Bang! Edited January 7, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 The real question here is why, having gone to the FBI with a gun and claiming intelligence agencies were putting thoughts about joining ISIS into his brain, and held over for a psychiatric evaluation, he was then released and given back his gun. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, Argus said: The real question here is why, having gone to the FBI with a gun and claiming intelligence agencies were putting thoughts about joining ISIS into his brain, and held over for a psychiatric evaluation, he was then released and given back his gun. To have an excuse to further restrict people's liberties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Another terror attack: this time (spins wheel).... Jerusalem! Yes...IDF soldiers (men and women reservist by the looks) get run-over and murdered by yet another mentally ill person in a truck. The truck is being held for questioning...heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Another terror attack: this time (spins wheel).... Jerusalem! Yes...IDF soldiers (men and women reservist by the looks) get run-over and murdered by yet another mentally ill person in a truck. It beats me how any sane person would think this would do anything but harden Israeli attitudes towards not only Palestinians but Muslims in general, and make them even less willing to trust and more willing to kill. The Hamas spokesman who praised the killings and called for more, for example, can expect a missile through his window when the Israelis find him. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 4 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Another terror attack: this time (spins wheel).... Jerusalem! Yes...IDF soldiers (men and women reservist by the looks) get run-over and murdered by yet another mentally ill person in a truck. The truck is being held for questioning...heh. Why should this be considered a terror attack when the targets are wearing uniforms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, eyeball said: Why should this be considered a terror attack when the targets are wearing uniforms? I wouldn't have considered it so had the perpetrator been Hamas.  I don't know about ISIS. If that were so, though, and he had been caught prior to the act, could they have shot him for being out of uniform?  I can't remember the rule on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 They can just change and make up the rules as they go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, eyeball said: They can just change and make up the rules as they go. Or just not have any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, bcsapper said: I wouldn't have considered it so had the perpetrator been Hamas. Â I don't know about ISIS. They were a group of officer cadets touring (not patrolling) a peaceful civilian, scenic area with tour guides. It was a terrorist act whoever did it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is probably of that particular breed which says that all Israelis are legitimate targets since they are required to serve in the military. And all Jews are legitimate targets since they support Israel. I trust his family will be proud of him as their house is demolished and they are evicted from Jerusalem. Â Edited January 8, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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