This week in Islam

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, AsksWhy said:

To be crystal clear: I agree that what has been done is disgusting. Unfortunately, there's a market for everything and the world business model supports if not forces people to do strange things to make money - its the nature of the beast.

Wow.  You haven't posted on this in 2019 from what I can see, so it's not clear who you're replying to if anyone.  "What has been done is disgusting" - without context you could be talking about anything in this thread.  So, you were not 'crystal clear'.

[Goddess]

14 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I must say, that kind of thing is good to hear.  Especially the moves against FGM.

It is.  What I don't understand is why when a random sheikh or mufti says We need to do something about FGM in Islam, that's "good to hear" but if anyone else says We need to do something about FGM in Islam, it's denied that there is a problem, it's denied that Muslims practice it, and the labels Islamophobe, bigot, racist are thrown around.  Screeching about how 15% of Canadians are prejudiced against Jews, while 100% and nearly 100% of Muslims in Islam majority countries admit prejudice against Jews, that's not a problem and you're an Islamophobe if you talk about it - No, the problem is Canadians with their 15% - ruining the world, not the Muslims at 100% and AlQud's is just a rally exactly  like Christians have ALL the time. 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

It is.  What I don't understand is why when a random sheikh or mufti says We need to do something about FGM in Islam, that's "good to hear" but if anyone else says We need to do something about FGM in Islam, it's denied that there is a problem, it's denied that Muslims practice it, and the labels Islamophobe, bigot, racist are thrown around.  Screeching about how 15% of Canadians are prejudiced against Jews, while 100% and nearly 100% of Muslims in Islam majority countries admit prejudice against Jews, that's not a problem and you're an Islamophobe if you talk about it - No, the problem is Canadians with their 15% - ruining the world, not the Muslims at 100% and AlQud's is just a rally exactly  like Christians have ALL the time. 

Oooh look!  Have you been taking creative writing courses?  Must congratulate you on your mastery of the misinformation technique; perhaps you could make a little extra coin at Breitbart or any conspiritard site.

[Goddess]

6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Oooh look!  Have you been taking creative writing courses?  Must congratulate you on your mastery of the misinformation technique; perhaps you could make a little extra coin at Breitbart or any conspiritard site.

Did you have something to add to the thread or you're just here to name-call and make sure the thread gets locked?

[dialamah]

9 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Did you have something to add to the thread or you're just here to name-call and make sure the thread gets locked?

I added substantially to the thread, and you just couldn't wait to bop on here and rewrite my contribution to suit your personal biases.

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I added substantially to the thread, and you just couldn't wait to bop on here and rewrite my contribution to suit your personal biases.

I didn't rewrite anything.  I questioned why you suddenly believe it's a good thing that Islam deals with its FGM problem now, as in the past you denied it was a problem and certainly denied it had anything to do with Muslims. Argued vociferously that Muslims did NOT have a problem with it and that it was really Christians who had the issue with FGM.  Same with anti-semitism on the other thread - you have argued and argued and argued that antisemitism in Islam is exactly the same as everywhere else and Muslims did NOT have a problem with it.  Called everyone names who said it was a problem, and called all the news reports "fake" and "shitty".  In fact, you tried to post that it's CANADIANS that have a problem with Jews.

Self-righteous hypocrisy is your forte.

[dialamah]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

questioned why you suddenly believe it's a good thing that Islam deals with its FGM problem now, as in the past you denied it was a problem and certainly denied it had anything to do with Muslims.

This is lying, as you well know.  In the past I have said:

1.  FGM is a problem in MENA countries, in some places practiced as much or more by non-Muslims as Muslims, that the practice predates Christianity and Islam and is thought to have arisen in ancient Egypt.  I have objected to the bigotry that ignores the prevalence of FGM among non-Muslims in the Middle East and Africa and points to Muslims as the near-sole practitioners.  I have objected to the assumption that Christian girls from those regions are not at risk.

2. There are ongoing efforts in these countries to eradicate FGM regardless of the religion of the practitioner.  It's slow going.

3.  Canada should do more to identify and protect girls at risk in Canada, whether Muslim or not.

Please find a quote where I have denied, in so many words, that it has "nothing to do with Muslims and it was really Christians who had the problem".

 

[scribblet]

If you want to read  a moderate Muslim  follow Imam Mohamad Tawhidi‏Verified account @Imamofpeace on Twitter, he is a breath of fresh air.   Fortunately he doesn't let death threats stop him

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4388672/Mohammad-Tawhidi-hiding-following-chilling-Islam-threat.html

 

[AsksWhy]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Wow.  You haven't posted on this in 2019 from what I can see, so it's not clear who you're replying to if anyone.  "What has been done is disgusting" - without context you could be talking about anything in this thread.  So, you were not 'crystal clear'.

INTERNATIONAL FORUM ETIQUETTE: someone who replies to a thread for the first time should be responding to the Original Post (OP). For those who know this, my response should be crystal clear.

Considering your response to my post, I presume that either you were unaware that that was my first post to this thread, or you are not aware of this unwritten rule - in which case you're welcome for the free lesson.

[eyeball]

On 4/30/2014 at 6:39 PM, kimmy said:

And I know that there are people who'll say "yeah, well, Christians did the same kind of stuff in the dark ages, and Islam started 600 years behind Christianity, so they just need a little more time."

But you know, hundreds of years ago when Christian cultures were discovering how to be human, they didn't have the benefit of learning from a global community of more enlightened neighbors. They were figuring it out from scratch.

These dummies, on the other hand, stand on an island surrounded by more enlightened people, and shut their eyes to it. Worse, some of these countries, like Syria and Iran and Afghanistan, are places where more modern ideas used to be embraced, and Islamists said "these ideas of treating women and minorities like humans suck. We should go back to the old ways."

I honestly find it infuriating.

-k

Speaking of going backwards...what are we to make of Christians reviving their primitive practice of strapping women down and forcing them to give birth against their will?  Even after having figured stuff out.

Christians have known perfectly well how to behave properly for nearly 2000 years and they still can't get it right.  I find this nonsense about who's moved/moving forwards and backwards a little hilarious.

[Argus]

11 hours ago, AsksWhy said:

INTERNATIONAL FORUM ETIQUETTE: someone who replies to a thread for the first time should be responding to the Original Post (OP). For those who know this, my response should be crystal clear.

Perhaps, given the post is 5 years old on a topic with  129 pages of discussion, your rule might be altered to make your point more clearly.

[Goddess]

17 hours ago, scribblet said:

If you want to read  a moderate Muslim  follow Imam Mohamad Tawhidi‏Verified account @Imamofpeace on Twitter, he is a breath of fresh air.   Fortunately he doesn't let death threats stop him

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4388672/Mohammad-Tawhidi-hiding-following-chilling-Islam-threat.html

 

He is calling for the shutdown of Islamic schools in Australia.

He's against burkas being worn in public.

He's against Sharia Law.

He calls out corruption in the Islamic community.

He's against fatwas for killing ex-Muslims and those who speak out.

He's says he's never once been subjected to discrimination even though his name is Mohamad and he has a beard and is a cleric.

Quote

 

'In no way do I wish to bring pressure upon Muslims or cause any harm or violence to them, but we live in a democracy and we are allowed to criticise.'

He said he wasn't adding to anti-Islamic sentiment. 

'I'm not adding to it, I'm advising the critics what they should be speaking of. 

 

Hmmm, these are all the things critics of Islam have said here and been lambasted and argued against and called Islamophobes by the person who Thanked You for the article.  

[dialamah]

23 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Hmmm, these are all the things critics of Islam have said here and been lambasted and argued against and called Islamophobes by the person who Thanked You for the article.  

Yes, the "thank you" was for introducing me to a moderate of whom I hadn't previously heard.  Doesn't mean I necessarily agree with everything he believes.  Only one Mosque per State?  That makes no sense, unless he's also suggesting limiting all worship houses.  I don't agree with that, people are entitled to worship as they wish, regardless of how irrelevant I find them.

Too bad about what's happening with him though; he is as entitled to express his views as anyone else, without having his life threatened.  

[Goddess]

9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yes, the "thank you" was for introducing me to a moderate of whom I hadn't previously heard.  Doesn't mean I necessarily agree with everything he believes.  Only one Mosque per State?  That makes no sense, unless he's also suggesting limiting all worship houses.  I don't agree with that, people are entitled to worship as they wish, regardless of how irrelevant I find them.

Too bad about what's happening with him though; he is as entitled to express his views as anyone else, without having his life threatened.  

I actually don't agree completely with getting rid of mosques.  I would however, like to see all mosques in Western countries be subject to a police search for radical Islamic materials and have every single imam and the sermons they deliver subject to investigation.

If that means searching all churches for radical Islamic materials and having all churches' pastors and their sermons investigated to appease the "progressives", then so be it.  If Muslims in any Western country want to riot and kill because their mosques and imams are being investigated, then everyone who takes part in the riots and killings who can be deported, should be.  Immediately.  With all their family.

I would not understand why anyone who calls themselves a "moderate" Muslim and knows what's going on in the world, would object to having their mosque searched for radical materials or their imam investigated.  I would think they would welcome it.  But I highly doubt it.

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, Goddess said:

I would however, like to see all mosques in Western countries be subject to a police search for radical Islamic materials and have every single imam and the sermons they deliver subject to investigation.

I don't disagree with that, although I think there would need to be some safeguards, though I have no idea what they'd be.

If I was going to investigate Christian religions for anything, it would be sexual and physical abuse of women and girls, especially closed community types like Mennonites and polygamous Mormon sects.  But again, I would want to figure out a way to do it that still safeguarded rights.

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I don't disagree with that...

Ridiculous.  People actually make a big fuss over arbitrary searches.  Back when the government was talking about monitoring online communication there was a large push back.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ridiculous.  People actually make a big fuss over arbitrary searches.  Back when the government was talking about monitoring online communication there was a large push back.

This is a good point, but at the same time anti-Jew rhetoric and Islamic radicalization needs to be addressed, if such is happening.  There is more evidence of female oppression in closed religious communities and addressing that presents the same issue in terms of rights.  This is why I mentioned safeguards and admitted I don't know what they'd be.

Edited May 23, 2019 by dialamah

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

This is a good point, but at the same time anti-Jew rhetoric and Islamic radicalization needs to be addressed, if such is happening.  There is more evidence of female oppression in closed religious communities and addressing that presents the same issue in terms of rights.  This is why I mentioned safeguards and admitted I don't know what they'd be.

Anti-Jew rhetoric seems to come from Nazi groups too.  So should we raid Faith Goldy's supporters homes ?  Your observations are just that, and you can state them and see what people say...

[AsksWhy]

11 hours ago, Argus said:

Perhaps, given the post is 5 years old on a topic with  129 pages of discussion, your rule might be altered to make your point more clearly.

Perhaps, or better yet the admins might want to consider archiving older topics to help keep this site current.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, AsksWhy said:

Perhaps, or better yet the admins might want to consider archiving older topics to help keep this site current.

Sure, someone could always start a new one, with the same name.

[Argus]

No doing any of that immoral type stuff like yoga in Iran! Gotta protect people from wicked thoughts!

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-48395711

[AsksWhy]

10 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Sure, someone could always start a new one, with the same name.

Or we could skip that scenario by simply hiding the posts that make the thread old. Heck, we could even hide posts like mine and yours that have gone so off topic they just clutter up the thread.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, AsksWhy said:

Or we could skip that scenario by simply hiding the posts that make the thread old. Heck, we could even hide posts like mine and yours that have gone so off topic they just clutter up the thread.

Off topic is half the fun.  How would we have been able to chat otherwise?

And let's face it, it's all clutter.

[dialamah]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Anti-Jew rhetoric seems to come from Nazi groups too.  So should we raid Faith Goldy's supporters homes ?  Your observations are just that, and you can state them and see what people say...

If I may point out that neither Goddess nor I suggested going into Muslim homes, but to ensure religious and community leaders aren't enabling extremism or hate.   

I don't like hateful rhetoric; I think it's damaging to society as a whole, whether online or off.  I don't know for sure if such rhetoric is a large part of lectures or sermons in Mosques, and there's been little evidence of Islamic extremism in Canada, but I would like to be sure it's not festering and growing, as White Supremacy has been festering and growing in the unwatched corners of the internet. 

At the same time, I can see the risks that "assuming" Mosques or Imams need closer watching presents for the rest of us in terms of personal freedoms.  If Imams cannot refer to Jews as "the vilest people", should internet commenters also be sanctioned for calling Muslims iredeemably barbaric and violent?  

Edited May 24, 2019 by dialamah

[Goddess]

37 minutes ago, dialamah said:

and there's been little evidence of Islamic extremism in Canada

You know I'm going to disagree with this. 

There's been actually quite a few imams in Canada preaching hate, a google search brings up quite a few pages of instances.

In addition, the Al Qud festival held in major Canadian cities annually has been well-documented as nothing more than a hatefest.

Also, there have been many Islamic extremism incidents in Canada, including some that we don't hear about and some that we don't hear about until after the danger has been handled by authorities. So far, 60 extremists who left to join ISIS have been allowed back into the country to roam the streets freely and we still have to deal with others who are wanting to come back, which begs the question - Why do they even want to come back if they hate us?

There's also been evidence of certain Islamic organizations funneling money to extremists.

I would not classify all this as "little" evidence of Islamic extremism in Canada.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Goddess