Canada-#1 at Vancouver,#3 at Sochi-should we spend more? Push more?

[guyser]

Since Canada finished third in the Medal count* in Sochi and first at Vancouver, the Own the Podium is working, however should we increase funding to our athletes? (*IOC convention)

Do we want to finish first more often at Winter Oly's ? Are we getting enough bang for our buck ?

Being first meant a lot, finishing third in Russia was a hell of a showing.

What should we do?

Edited February 24, 2014 by Guyser2

[TimG]

Money can give one country an advantage but there is a point of diminishing returns. From a purely statistical perspective countries with larger populations will produce more winners if they have a comparable amount of support.

[Black Dog]

Whatever we're doing now seems to be working....

[Boges]

I think we should focus on sports where we have a shot at winning. Holland finished in the Top 4 because they dominated one sport.

I personally don't care about Canadians in Nordic sports because they're at a massive disadvantage. I think there's potential in sliding sports and speed skating to increase funding. These games were rather disappointed in those disciples.

The big question is how to fund Summer athletes. Canada only won a single Gold in London.

[Black Dog]

I think we should focus on sports where we have a shot at winning. Holland finished in the Top 4 because they dominated one sport.

I personally don't care about Canadians in Nordic sports because they're at a massive disadvantage. I think there's potential in sliding sports and speed skating to increase funding. These games were rather disappointed in those disciples.

The big question is how to fund Summer athletes. Canada only won a single Gold in London.

In the same spirit of funding that which you are good at, doesn't it make sense to keep funneling the bulk of resources into our winter program? We're a winter nation, summer Olympics just isn't our forte (plus the summer games suck)

[guyser]

Money can give one country an advantage but there is a point of diminishing returns. From a purely statistical perspective countries with larger populations will produce more winners if they have a comparable amount of support.

China?

Russia?

Britain?

USA?

How did that work for them?

[Boges]

In the same spirit of funding that which you are good at, doesn't it make sense to keep funneling the bulk of resources into our winter program? We're a winter nation, summer Olympics just isn't our forte (plus the summer games suck)

Your opinion of it sucking notwithstanding, lots of people care about the Summer Games.

Track and Field success for Canada has always been a feel good story. I'd rather see money put into track and field than ski jumping.

[TimG]

China?

Russia?

Britain?

USA?

How did that work for them?

Last I checked Russia and US did better in the medal count. China does not spend that much money on the winter Olympics nor does Britain.

My point is Canada can do better against countries that aren't providing a similar level of support. For countries that are providing a similar level of support the larger countries have the advantage.

[Boges]

Last I checked Russia and US did better in the medal count. China does not spend that much money on the winter Olympics nor does Britain.My point is Canada can do better against countries that aren't providing a similar level of support. For countries that are providing a similar level of support the larger countries have the advantage.

Simply because the pool of athletes is greater.

Medal count can be very misleading. Holland can win 24 medals in one sport where Canada sweeps the four team sports. Which looks better on the medal standings? Which is actually more impressive?

Nordic sports have a great deal of medals assigned to them, sliding sports don't nor do team sports.

In the summer the US rack up lots of medals in the pools and on the Track. Look at Jamaica, a country of 3 million people can do better than Canada because they dominate in a single sport.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Boges

[bush_cheney2004]

Nevertheless, Canada has made tremendous progress from the legacy of a host country that didn't win any gold medals in not one, but two Olympic Games. "Own the Podium" worked for 2010, and is still paying dividends. If it ain't broke....

[guyser]

Last I checked Russia and US did better in the medal count. China does not spend that much money on the winter Olympics nor does Britain.

Not sure where you checked then.

Russia yes they finished higher ...by 3 , USA finished behind Canada....by one

China recruits, houses, educates, provides all of lifes necessities, coaches, therapists, from a very early age. REcruiters are sent into early primary grades looking for those with talent and then takes them from their families. China spends far more than we will ever spend.

Britain spends at least 30,000 Pounds on an A carded athete. Another 55G pounds on in kind services.

My point is Canada can do better against countries that aren't providing a similar level of support. For countries that are providing a similar level of support the larger countries have the advantage.

Canada is beating countries that provide more support and beating larger populated countries. Edited February 24, 2014 by Guyser2

[TimG]

China recruits, houses, educates, provides all of lifes necessities, coaches, therapists, from a very early age.

Really? So where is this support for Chinese hockey players? How about bobsledders or snow borders? You have to look at the support on a sport by sport basis. Almost all of China's resources go into summer Olympic events. Also, there is a lag between allocating more money and better results. If you can't say when China started supporting a given sport you can't say they spend more money than Canada. However, in any given sport if China spends money on it, they will eventually clobber the competition unless the sport has some special cultural significance (i.e. hockey). In the case of sports like hockey the broad public interest will create a much bigger pool of elite players to choose from.

And the US finished ahead of Canada in the medal count (28 vs 25).

Edited February 24, 2014 by TimG

[guyser]

Really? So where is this support for Chinese hockey players? How about bobsledders or snow borders?

Not much support, nor advancement for those sports in China

But that does not make the point any less, when in fact China covers all the kids expenses from a very early age right thru the Olympics. If not supporting , feeding , housing et al does not add up to way more than an A carded athlete in Canada (who gets it only when mid to late teens and qualifiying times etc) for a decade then......

However, in any given sport if China spends money on it, they will eventually clobber the competition unless the sport has some special cultural significance (i.e. hockey). In the case of sports like hockey the broad public interest will create a much bigger pool of elite players to choose from.

Clobber?

China 5 Gold in gymnastics, USA 3.

Swimming perhaps? Better than 3-1 in favour of the USA (16-5), who assuredly didnt haul their kids away from mom and dad and send them to live in athlete compuonds and schools

And the US finished ahead of Canada in the medal count (28 vs 25).

Canada finished in 3rd spot. Go look it up. See Gold, 10 is better than 9.

[guyser]

Really? So where is this support for Chinese hockey players? How about bobsledders or snow borders?

Not much support, nor advancement for those sports in China

But that does not make the point any less, when in fact China covers all the kids expenses from a very early age right thru the Olympics. If not supporting , feeding , housing et al does not add up to way more than an A carded athlete in Canada (who gets it only when mid to late teens and qualifiying times etc) for a decade then......

However, in any given sport if China spends money on it, they will eventually clobber the competition unless the sport has some special cultural significance (i.e. hockey). In the case of sports like hockey the broad public interest will create a much bigger pool of elite players to choose from.

Clobber?

China 5 Gold in gymnastics, USA 3.

Swimming perhaps? Better than 3-1 in favour of the USA (16-5), who assuredly didnt haul their kids away from mom and dad and send them to live in athlete compuonds and schools

And the US finished ahead of Canada in the medal count (28 vs 25).

Canada finished in 3rd spot. Go look it up. See Gold, 10 is better than 9.

[Accountability Now]

Since Canada finished third in the Medal count* in Sochi and first at Vancouver, the Own the Podium is working, however should we increase funding to our athletes? (*IOC convention)

Do we want to finish first more often at Winter Oly's ? Are we getting enough bang for our buck ?

Being first meant a lot, finishing third in Russia was a hell of a showing.

What should we do?

Its obvious that funding has a huge part to play in the overall success as we see that Quebec had 40% of our total athletes and won a good amount of the medals. Quebec spends about 2.6 milllion each year on amateur sports compared to $160,000 that Alberta spends. This in light of the fact that Alberta has the most national program training centers in the country.

You can take into account the population difference for the total amounts but in the end Quebec funds its amateur athletes and the results show. If Canada wants to get better as a whole then I think the funding has to hit the grassroots and give exposure to the amateur athletes out there. Lets face it.....how many kids are ever introduced to luge, bobsleigh or even speed skating. No problems with hockey, curling or even the newer X-games style skiing events.

[-TSS-]

Canada won hockey. Russia topped the medal-table. Guess which country is more satisfied.

[Shady]

Nevertheless, Canada has made tremendous progress from the legacy of a host country that didn't win any gold medals in not one, but two Olympic Games. "Own the Podium" worked for 2010, and is still paying dividends. If it ain't broke....

Exactly. It seems to be a decent cost effective program. I say leave it be. It's relatively new. Medal counts will always fluctuate.

[Bonam]

Canada does plenty well for a nation of its population. There are better things to spend money on. I see no need to increase funding.

[Moonlight Graham]

If Canada wants to get better as a whole then I think the funding has to hit the grassroots and give exposure to the amateur athletes out there. Lets face it.....how many kids are ever introduced to luge, bobsleigh or even speed skating. No problems with hockey, curling or even the newer X-games style skiing events.

Luge, bobsleigh, skeleton etc. are ridiculous sports. I've never met anyone who has ever even tried those sports, have you? Even if I wanted to I wouldn't know where to try them, I've never seen one of those tracks in my life. There are only 14 world-approved bobsleigh tracks on earth. Sounds like an expensive, extremely niche sport that very few have access to. They should get rid of these ridiculous tracks and replace the events with toboggan races or something...at least humans actually do those activities in the winter.

I wouldn't waste big money building these expensive tracks and bobsleds etc. just to get a few more medals. We should spend an adequate amount of money on our Olympics athletes because a good showing at the Olympics helps build national pride, but Canada does very well in the Winter Olympics for our population size, so there's far better things our government can spend its money on than a few more medals.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Moonlight Graham

[Mighty AC]

Sure we could continue to throw more money at our athletes and we would likely see continued success, but diminishing returns on a per dollar basis. It's time to think outside of the box. I have come up with a three pronged approach that would revitalize the 'Own The Podium' program.

1) Bribe figure skating judges.
2) Pay the world's top athletes to take dives. Do you really think Chuck Hamelin and his brother accidentally fell 3 times after wining his gold?
3) Sabotage those that won't play ball.

The Tonya Harding incident, for example, was the result of a lack of funding. If she had proper sabotage training and the funds to hire world class thugs she would have achieved great things.

[guyser]

I like this ^ post, quite funny.

[Accountability Now]

Luge, bobsleigh, skeleton etc. are ridiculous sports. I've never met anyone who has ever even tried those sports, have you? Even if I wanted to I wouldn't know where to try them, I've never seen one of those tracks in my life. There are only 14 world-approved bobsleigh tracks on earth. Sounds like an expensive, extremely niche sport that very few have access to. They should get rid of these ridiculous tracks and replace the events with toboggan races or something...at least humans actually do those activities in the winter.

No...I've never known anyone that has even tried those sports. Like you said, there are only 14 tracks in the world..I assume 2-3 in Canada? How does one get into something like that? I like your idea of the toboggan races....X-games style...with body checking...Lol

[Moonlight Graham]

Sure we could continue to throw more money at our athletes and we would likely see continued success, but diminishing returns on a per dollar basis. It's time to think outside of the box. I have come up with a three pronged approach that would revitalize the 'Own The Podium' program.

1) Bribe figure skating judges.

2) Pay the world's top athletes to take dives. Do you really think Chuck Hamelin and his brother accidentally fell 3 times after wining his gold?

3) Sabotage those that won't play ball.

The Tonya Harding incident, for example, was the result of a lack of funding. If she had proper sabotage training and the funds to hire world class thugs she would have achieved great things.

Great ideas. It seemed to work for the Russians this time! They won 33 medals in Sochi including 13 golds, yet last time in Vancouver they only won 15 total medals & only 3 gold. I find it hard to believe that's all due to "increased athlete funding". I watched the figure skating and the Russians clearly rigged the scored for their athletes in the pairs (the 3rd-ranked Russian pairs score was BS, but the gold & silver Russians did deserve to win) and ladies figure skating.

Paying a judge or 2 a million dollars to rig scores would be hard for anyone to turn down, and it's probably cheaper than increasing funding. We also need to invest in undetectable performance-enhancing drug labs. Maybe even fit our athletes with cybernetic implants into their shoulders and hip-flexors.

[Mighty AC]

Paying a judge or 2 a million dollars to rig scores would be hard for anyone to turn down, and it's probably cheaper than increasing funding. We also need to invest in undetectable performance-enhancing drug labs. Maybe even fit our athletes with cybernetic implants into their shoulders and hip-flexors.

Solid out of the box thinking! We're on to something here.

Your implant idea could be the future of sport. How cool would the cyborg Olympics be?

[Wilber]

Great ideas. It seemed to work for the Russians this time! They won 33 medals in Sochi including 13 golds, yet last time in Vancouver they only won 15 total medals & only 3 gold. I find it hard to believe that's all due to "increased athlete funding". I watched the figure skating and the Russians clearly rigged the scored for their athletes in the pairs (the 3rd-ranked Russian pairs score was BS, but the gold & silver Russians did deserve to win) and ladies figure skating.

Paying a judge or 2 a million dollars to rig scores would be hard for anyone to turn down, and it's probably cheaper than increasing funding. We also need to invest in undetectable performance-enhancing drug labs. Maybe even fit our athletes with cybernetic implants into their shoulders and hip-flexors.

I don't know. Russia finished just ahead of Canada in 2006 and Canada went from 7 golds in 2006 to a record 14 in 2010. Countries pull out all the stops when they host an Olympic games. All the new sports being introduced has also made things more unpredictable. Canada went backwards in sliding and speed skating as did the US.

Figure skating and its judging will always be a contentious issue. Same goes for all judged sports but skating seems to be the worst.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Wilber