What improvements would you like to see in this discussion forum?

[Argus]

Bleeding Heart,

You say "consistent trolling." That's your opinion, and perception.

Pretty much everyone's opinion, actually.

[bush_cheney2004]

I notice all criticisms of trolling are being directed to an individual....and yet in this page alone, I see two other trollish posts - one borders on flaming - and the other one is an outright flame.

Does any other poster here notice? Or you all prefer to look the other way since the one being trolled and flamed doesn't belong to your "tribe?"

Yes, and the psychology of it all is quite interesting (i.e. 'tribe'). This member lost his cool and blatantly violated forum rules in a thread that is highlighting such things. This is a web forum, not a WWI trench with gas attacks. Why does anyone need or want to "lose it" like that, and alienate new and existing membership ?

I agree with your comment that it is the reader's behaviour that drives this conflict, and this has been confirmed by others above. We do not have the right to be offended by ideas and opinions, excepting forum rules for proper decorum. We do have the right to respond with competing ideas and opinions, without being bullied by the 'tribe'.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't buy your complaints. They sound self-righteous and officious at the same time. You continue to suggest there is nothing wrong with deliberately goading and taunting people, only with those people if they respond. Well, we're not all unemotional robots, and when someone deliberately sets out to make themselves unpleasant that's going to draw a reaction.

Then I would suggest that such emotional members not read or respond to posts that push them over the edge. Use the ignore feature...it...is...right.......there.

Edited February 20, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[guyser]

What neither of you get, although I suspect both of you do but like playing dumb, is that no one here loses their cool, or gets emotional in any real sense.

Both of you are like two little kids pontificating the why me approach, all the while smiling underneath. Childish is not in doubt.

And both of you fail to see that the rules bar trolling and not researching your posts.

[bush_cheney2004]

And both of you fail to see that the rules bar trolling and not researching your posts.

Not your call...you can't silence those with whom you disagree. Why is it so important to invest that kind of rule breaking behaviour to counter such posts ? What is the big deal ?

Edited February 20, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[guyser]

Not your call...you can't silence those with whom you disagree. Why is it so important to invest that kind of rule breaking behaviour to counter such posts ? What is the big deal ?

Ahh one trick pony doing it again.

For the umpteenth time, you were posting lies. You continue to do so.

It is my call to post about a lie as it is everyone who wants to make it theirs.

I am not silencing anyone (theres that Right wing stupid talking point again)

[bush_cheney2004]

For the umpteenth time, you were posting lies. You continue to do so.

It is my call to post about a lie as it is everyone who wants to make it theirs.

I am not silencing anyone (theres that Right wing stupid talking point again)

No, you are free to call another member's posts "lies", but you are not free to stop or bully members who make posts that you judge to be "lies". This distinction seems to escape you.

Edited February 20, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

No, you are free to call another member's posts "lies", but you are not free to stop or bully members who make posts that you judge to be "lies". This distinction seems to escape you.

This place would be much better if you were no longer a member here. That is all that needs to be said.

[Charles Anthony]

Folks,

Anybody who posts any more personal attacks from this point onward will have their posting privileges suspended temporarily.

Govern yourselves accordingly.

If you can not Report and Ignore, do not respond to anything that deserves a Report IN YOUR OPINION.

Ch. A.

[GostHacked]

Folks,

Anybody who posts any more personal attacks from this point onward will have their posting privileges suspended temporarily.

Govern yourselves accordingly.

If you can not Report and Ignore, do not respond to anything that deserves a Report IN YOUR OPINION.

Ch. A.

Deal with the problematic posters as some of us have requested. If your decisions on the reporting is arbitrary there is really no point in reporting. Meaning this issue will continue as it has for the duration of this thread.

[guyser]

No, you are free to call another member's posts "lies", but you are not free to stop or bully members who make posts that you judge to be "lies". This distinction seems to escape you.

Never tried to stop anyone from posting.Another one of your fantasies perhaps?

I am not calling them lies, I am saying it is, without doubt nor question, a lie. Post up the truth anytime , you wont but the offer is there.

The sun rises in the west.

Really isnt a lie? Your idea of a distinction is skewed beyond reason.

Distinction is not a problem here, look inward.

[bush_cheney2004]

Never tried to stop anyone from posting.Another one of your fantasies perhaps?

I am not calling them lies, I am saying it is, without doubt nor question, a lie. Post up the truth anytime , you wont but the offer is there.

Doesn't matter.....a single member's or group of members ("tribe") judgement(s) is not the final say around here. Other members can post as they please within the forum rules framework.

[guyser]

Doesn't matter.....

So , you post that I am trying to silence you, and I respond that I never tried and your answer is 'Doesn't matter' ?

a single member's or group of members ("tribe") judgement(s) is not the final say around here. Other members can post as they please within the forum rules framework.

Others mostly do, some obviously dont at times.<cough cough>

The final word for the problem in question is not up for judgement, as much as you wilfully obfuscate, deflect and ignore requests to post up a reference.

The sun rises in the west. <------ there is no judgement on the accuracy of that sentence. That sentence is and can only be false.

[bush_cheney2004]

So , you post that I am trying to silence you, and I respond that I never tried and your answer is 'Doesn't matter' ?

Good, then I shall continue to post in an identical manner with no more personal attacks from you. This is indeed a great day.

BTW, the sun does not rise..the earth rotates at the sidereal rate.

Edited February 20, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[carepov]

Folks,

Anybody who posts any more personal attacks from this point onward will have their posting privileges suspended temporarily.

Govern yourselves accordingly.

If you can not Report and Ignore, do not respond to anything that deserves a Report IN YOUR OPINION.

Ch. A.

I like this forum and think that Charles and Greg are doing a great job. The lines defining "trolling", "flaming" and "thread drift" are fuzzy and they seem to have the right approach by just ignoring most of these violations. This was a good intervention by Charles: Personal attacks must stop. If you don't have anything nice to say about someone - don't say anything at all.

-I like how BC2004 consistently avoids personal attacks despite often being the target.

-I admire waldo's passion in all his posts.

-I respect Dog on Porch's historical knowledge.

-I learned a lot about our military thanks to Derek and SignalsCpl.

-Has anyone seen segnosaur and Wayward Son? I miss them.

Perhaps it would be nice to have a few more members but in most threads, a discussion with 4-6 people seems to be optimal.

I would like a feature where we can store/save some of our personal favourite posts, and perhaps there could also be a public list where we can vote on the best ever posts:

-I loved when dre said "nationalism is a mild form of mental retardation"

-My favourite posts by far are Rue's, I practically fell out of my chair after reading the one about counties diddling other countries and his rap songs

[betsy]

Yea, but you may well be right about how you have been "trolled"...or maybe not.

As you say, that's your perception.

With the other case, it's not a poster's perception; or three posters' perceptions; it's lots. And lots.

You're also ignoring the fact that he has admitted it.....gleefully. So that's a slight difference too, donchathink?

Yes, it depends on one's perception...I could've been wrong. Thus, I never really took to reporting people for trolling. I've reported a couple in the last few months I was still active here for disrupting and derailing my threads I think (but never for "trolling").

There are trolls, I'm not saying there are not. However, since trolling is subjective - no one can really be sure of one's true intentions. I cannot comment on the alleged admission of the individual since I have not been following that particular incident. I wouldn't know how the admission came about, or what prompted the admission....or if it was even a real admission or not.

In the end, it still boils down to the reader to be the one to make a decision how he'd respond.

As for majority of members agreeing on the same thing - I don't think that has any credibility at all on this board - like I said, there are like-minded individuals here who'd support and abet each other that they look more like a clique.

There is bias.

It's a shame how it's gotten this far....

[betsy]

But you don't believe that "the problem lies with the reader." That is, you think that's true for the people who consider the poster an irritant.....but you don't offer the same advice for the poster himself, when he's being criticized.

What advice should I give against trolling? Like I said, it's subjective!

I don't think I want to say...."members, walk on eggshells lest you say something that can be construed for trolling, or you might rub some sensitive individual who may've happen to have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed, or it may be that time of the month for her."

You want it both ways--as when you suggest that trolling is fine...and it's totally subjective....even as you claim that you have been trolled yourself.

There is no both ways. It's just plain common sense.

Yes, "trolling," under the definition that everyone on this board is defining it - being anyone who is an "irritant" - should be allowed. Whoever expects that there wouldn't be anyone or anything in this world that wouldn't be an irritant?

We are all "irritants" to someone at sometime. That's normal.

But to point a finger at someone and try to have him/her suspended for being an "irritant" is not only unfair, but it's hypocritical. Especially when some of those accusers are probably the biggest trolls in this board.

That's not hard to prove. Just check out all my threads....you'll see all the familiar names that either insulted, goaded, mocked, de-railed and disprupted my threads.

Edited February 20, 2014 by betsy

[betsy]

Reply to Moonlight Graham,

I know you didn't mean me. I used myself as an example regarding the emoticons.....some folks here were really climbing up the walls over the way I used them.

I think of a flasher who derives satisfaction when someone is scandalized over their flashings. The more reaction they get, the better. Flashers would know who best to target for flashings, I guess.

I can't help compare the reactions of some of these people about trolls and emoticons - the way they carry on and howl - they pose a very tantalizing specimen that indeed would tempt someone to become a troll! They would be the type to attract a troll.

[betsy]

Guyser 2,

I know about the rules against trolling. If you've been reading my posts here you'd see that I'm suggesting they scrap it.

We've had that rule since when I first started here (I used a different name at the beginning)...and we've had the same problem even then! Everyone has always been harping about trolls!

That rule is a source of headache for the mods. All it does is encourage bickering - accusations back and forth - since it gives us something to bicker about! That only makes this board a parody of a mature discussion forum.

I say put the onus on the reader, after all this is an adult board.

Edited February 20, 2014 by betsy

[jbg]

I like this forum and think that Charles and Greg are doing a great job.

They are volunteers and no matter the quibbles should be praised for doing something thankless and subject to mind-numbing cricism; even if I am one of the critics I still thank them.

[betsy]

In fact youre quite right.

However as respects the poster and his constant lying about the CBC, I need no reference the truth is well known.

Not to mention the one making the claim should post up, but that has never happened in this case.

We're not talking about the CBC here. I don't care about particulars of that issue - we're talking about trolling and flaming. Not individual issues....but in general.

I don't want to single you out but derailing a thread is trolling! We've all been guilty of that.

Understand the issue first before yelling please and thank you.

Shouldve said your last line first and dispensed with the rest. You are referencing things you do not understand.

I don't have to understand the issue about the CBC since I'm not here to be referee between you two!

If someone makes a claim which you find questionable, then challenge them to provide something to support their claim.

No one is required to give references, but if they don't give any....then it's more likely what they say is all bs.

But calling someone a liar is flaming, unless you can PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is indeed lying.

Saying, "it's well known," or "everybody knows about it" is not the kind of reference that is meant in a debate or serious discussion.

[matilda]

This board seems to have gone off topic so please feel free to move my post into the appropriate topic. Thank you.

If one wishes to avoid board costs there are many good free ones that have much in the line of custom "skins", portal customization, along with Free Mods as well as Free Hosting. Free forums can also be ad free but using a good Adblocker wehich solves the problem if you hate ads. Attracting new members is an uphill battle. However, by adding keywords for search engines to pick up is a good way for anyone searching to be redirected to this forum. And yes, you guessed it - I am an active forum administrator as well as a Internet security advisor.

* To get rid of spammers, one needs to instal a mod that will prevent them from registering. Mods are usually free.

* Want to "duke" it out ... have a chatroom installed. When chat is ended, everything is erased & it is self moderated. or a password protected forum. If you want a contentious discussion, then password protect that specific forum which will and can keep out trolls. Passwords would be isssued to members who request it by the assigned moderator and the administrator.

* More than one moderator is required and a set of moderating Guidelines should be posted in the staff room as a referral when needed.

* Have moderators work specific sections and one overall Global moderator who oversees all moderating.

* Forget all the cutsey stuff such as "likes," etc. ... instead have something on the order of Poster of the Month ... this poster would qualify on the basis of quality posts and not quantity .. this might help reduce personal attacks. Candidate is selected by moderators & Admins or you can do a poll by member selection.

* Have a Report button in the area of where you post, edit, & so forth.

* Rather than moderators do a "hard delete" of a post, topic or thread, it should be moved to the staff room for review first or it can be hidden from members and is not staff if that feature is installed.

* As a perk, get a mod to add a Country Flag for each member or a Mood Smiley.

* Mods can be installed for automatic graphic resizing to board specified size as well as URL shorteners.

* Not hard to increase the size of the avatar or the signature in the ACP [Admin control panel]. Most Avatars are 100x100 pixels but can be bigger however, not recommended as it runs into the message area when they are too large.

* Some dislike Smilies but there are some humorous ones out there [i have a sizeable collection] and members love using them to help express their post as funny or whatever.

As a separate category ...........

* Have a BOARD WELCOME including ABOUT US and something in it about the forum and how a member can benefit & so forth. Make no promises that cannot be upheld. Keep it short and down to the point. Search engines read this and put it out on the internet.

* Rules - I like to call them Rules of Engagement &/or Forum Guidelines - Less intimidating.

* Have an Announcement Forum

Announcements would be any board changes, rules changes, forum maintenance, etc.

* Member Forum Tutorials .. lock each tutorial for ease of location.

* Member Forum Assistance Q&A.Only.

& beneath it Feedback & Suggestions.

* Open an ENTERTAINMENT CATEGORY with topics similar to the following ..

* U-Tube & Music

* Jokes of the Day

* Polling Station [Miscellaneous polls]

* Coffee Shoppe - non political chit chat.

* Have a contest from time to time & create a winners list.

POLITICS CATEGORY

* Controversial Discussions - by password members only

[A kitchen where there is a lot of heat and if one cannot stand it, then get out of the kitchen]

* Environment

* General News & Social Issues

* Politcal humor & cartoons

* Worldwide Politics

[under worldwide politics use the current breakdown that is now being used.]

GENERAL CATEGORY

* Miscellaneous Topics

[if it doesn't fit anywhere else, can be posted here]

* Handheld Gadgets

[this is for IPhones, Ipads, tablets, etc. as help & discussion & tips ]

* Hobbies & Gaming. [optional]

ARCADE [optional] .. they are always popular and a place to chill out. May be worth considering.

That is all I can think of for now but I would say it is sufficient so as not to take away from the political discussion ... You can use the ideas here or toss them out .. choice is yours.

Edited February 21, 2014 by matilda

[betsy]

I'd like to explain where I'm coming from regarding the rule against trolling.

Citing "trolling" as the reason for reporting - and suspending or penalizing - someone is nebulous.

Reports should be specific. If someone hijacks the thread, then report it as it is - hijacking the thread. If the poster is disrupting the discussion with one-liners that doesn't contribute anything, then report it as such.

Thus, the trolling rule is not needed at all.

But because a rule exists against trolling, that is being used too often and abused.

It only serves to encourage this kind of childish squabble among members - and this has been an on-going squabble for so long - which in turn reflects badly on this forum.

Edited February 21, 2014 by betsy

[matilda]

Dealing with trolls is not easy because even if they are banned, they will re-register under another name and continue their disruption. The following applies to a real troll and can also be applied to someone who just likes stirring the pot after a warning has been given.

1. Trolls are immune to criticism and logical arguments. True trolls cannot be reasoned with, regardless of how sound your logical argument is.
2. Trolls do not feel remorse like you and me. They have sociopathic tendencies, and accordingly, they delight in other people having hurt feelings.
3. Trolls consider themselves separate from the social order.
4. Trolls do not abide by etiquette or the rules of common courtesy.
5. Trolls consider themselves above social responsibility.
6. Trolls gain energy by you insulting them.
7. Trolls gain energy when you get angry.
8. The only way to deal with a troll is to ignore him, or take away his/her ability to post online.

A troll may resort to spamming - best to have Flood Control set which slows up the spamming if there is any sign of it. A moderator can remove a troll's post which is sometimes known as muting the offender.

Edited February 21, 2014 by matilda

[jacee]

Well I judiciously applied the ignore function, then reread the thread, and it improved my experience of this forum immensely!

I highly recommend it.