Rob Ford, mayor of Toronto UPDATES

[Boges]

You seemed to insinuate that the fact Ford was elected gave him a special legitimacy and status.

I don't see what it matters he was elected. Elected leaders are frequently brought down by other elected bodies. Though they're not directly elected, prime ministers are elected and can be voted out by the popularly elected House of Commons or legislature. US presidents elected by the Electoral College can be removed by the popularly elected Congress. So, it's hardly bizarre for the elected Toronto City Council to pass only motions asking the Mayor to resign. Frankly, I can't perceive why council shouldn't have the power to remove a mayor.

[ed.: c/e]

The House of Commons example isn't Apples to Apples because when the House claims they have no confidence in the Government a General Election is meant to be called immediately.

Also regarding recall legislation in the US, usually an election has to be forced.

The only thing I could compare it to would be congress impeaching a president but the Mayor of Toronto doesn't hold the power a President or Governor does. It's a weak mayor system where the Mayor is only one vote and has not power to veto anything.

I think council could get on with business fine if they simply ignore the mayor, but I guess when the mayor talks about eating cat it's hard to ignore.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Boges

[Boges]

Of course they were telling the truth. Nobody is questioning that anymore.

So eyewitness testimony without a video record is unacceptable to you? You're saying they shouldn't have told anyone what they saw? I think most reasonable people would consider that to be irresponsible.

Actually the Star wasn't planning to go with the story right away, probably precisely because there was little evidence, at the time, that the video was real. Gawker kind of forced their hand.

[Spiderfish]

Nobody could at that time be 100% certain they were telling the truth.

Bubber could.

But it was safe to be 99% certain because we assume most people who appear rational are rational and no rational person would risk their careers lying about a bombshell story like that.

99% may be a little high, given that there really was little risk of getting caught in a lie if there was no video. But I get your point. I guess when the destruction of soemeone's political career and annhialation of their character and personal life is at stake, 99% certainty or whatever it works out to is enough for some, and not so much for others. I never said the claims were untrue, I said I was reserving judgement until the story could be substantiated.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Spiderfish

[g_bambino]

The House of Commons example isn't Apples to Apples because when the House claims they have no confidence in the Government a General Election is meant to be called immediately.

It is comparable in the way I said it was: one (popularly) elected body with the power to remove another (representatively) elected body. General elections do not automatically follow a vote of non-confidence in the prime minister.

Also regarding recall legislation in the US, usually an election has to be forced.

Perhaps. But, I spoke about impeachment of presidents.

I think council could get on with business fine if they simply ignore the mayor, but I guess when the mayor talks about eating cat it's hard to ignore

I believe there are certain functions that only the mayor can perform; why have the position at all if that's not the case?

It would be wonderful to lock this mayor away in a box and only slide papers that need his signature through a slot in the top and retreive them from a slot at the bottom. But, even then, I'm sure Ford would find some way of publicly making an ass of himself.

[ed.: sp.]

Edited November 14, 2013 by g_bambino

[Topaz]

Don't most restaurants have security cameras? Ford is becoming an Edsel very fast.

[jacee]

christie-blatchford-rob-ford-looking-like-a-kardashian-wrapped-in-an-episode-of-intervention-inside-a-bottle-of-vodka

Outside city hall, an anti-mayor demonstration was getting started.

Two people, standing close, held two signs.

One read,Step aside.

The other read, or fall over.

I think Ford's going to fall over before he'll ever step aside.

I hope he doesn't hurt anyone else.

.

Edited November 14, 2013 by jacee

[waldo]

it was an absolute travesty that the boys lost their Ford Nation radio show... apparently, prayers to the comedy gods have been answered! Sun News Network, that epitome of high-brow, intellectual discourse, has stepped in to right a most unjustifiable wrong:

Ford brothers to host show on Sun News Network

[jacee]

How do you know they were telling the truth?

Well let's see ...

Chief Blair said so.

Rob Ford said so.

[bush_cheney2004]

Who says the Americans never pay any attention to Canada? Mayor Ford has been getting a lot of attention "south of the border", making it too easy for the comedy writers. Two examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_uW37mBPF4

Edited November 15, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

Continued from previous post.....Craig Ferguson comments on Mayor Ford's situation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcQANCtegc8#t=87

Edited November 15, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[g_bambino]

Well let's see ...

Chief Blair said so.

Rob Ford said so.

I think he meant how do we know they were telling the truth at the time they first reported it.

[jacee]

I think he meant how do we know they were telling the truth at the time they first reported it.

Kinda moot now.

Just Spiderfish sidetracking people from current reality to serve his political agenda.

.

Edited November 15, 2013 by jacee

[cybercoma]

Hey SpiderFish, be sure to turn out the lights when you leave the Ford bandwagon. Everyone else has left. I'm sorry you didn't notice Christie Blatchford even said her goodbyes.

I'm starting to wonder if you're actually Rob or Doug's account here.

[BubberMiley]

Continued from previous post.....Craig Ferguson comments on Mayor Ford's situation:

Hmmm...his accent doesn't sound very american to me.

[bush_cheney2004]

Craig Ferguson became an American citizen in 2008. He has been ripping Mayor Ford for a long time.

[jacee]

Hey SpiderFish, be sure to turn out the lights when you leave the Ford bandwagon. Everyone else has left. I'm sorry you didn't notice Christie Blatchford even said her goodbyes.

I'm starting to wonder if you're actually Rob or Doug's account here.

Maybe Doug ... or a political staffer.

Rob wouldn't be so focused.

(Sidebar: I'm always curious how many people on here are paid public or political employees.)

And ... Charlie Sheen weighs in ...

if I can be of any assistance in any capacity in this media cesspool,please accept the noble offer of my steady hand and compassionate heart.respectfully,charlie sheen.

Edited November 15, 2013 by jacee

[BubberMiley]

I never said the claims were untrue, I said I was reserving judgement until the story could be substantiated.

I think you're being hasty by no longer reserving judgement. At least the Star reporters saw the video. You haven't even seen it yet.

[ReeferMadness]

Tomorrow's a new day. I'm sure it will bring something else that Rob can apologize for.

[Spiderfish]

Hey SpiderFish, be sure to turn out the lights when you leave the Ford bandwagon. Everyone else has left. I'm sorry you didn't notice Christie Blatchford even said her goodbyes.

I'm not on any bandwagon, I think Ford needs to step down and get help.

I'm starting to wonder if you're actually Rob or Doug's account here.

I get the feeling this is no longer a discussion on the issue.

[Spiderfish]

I think you're being hasty by no longer reserving judgement. At least the Star reporters saw the video. You haven't even seen it yet.

I think I could agree fully 100% with everything you say, and you still would argue.

[Spiderfish]

I think he meant how do we know they were telling the truth at the time they first reported it.

I did, just as bubber did when he claimed:

My point is they gave firsthand eyewitness testimony of what they saw and they told the truth.

As I've already stated, the video is irrelevant now anyway, Rob is toast. He can fight all he wants, but all he's doing is digging himself in deeper and embarrassing himself further.

[bleeding heart]

I don't see what it matters he was elected. Elected leaders are frequently brought down by other elected bodies. Though they're not directly elected, prime ministers are elected and can be voted out by the popularly elected House of Commons or legislature. US presidents elected by the Electoral College can be removed by the popularly elected Congress. So, it's hardly bizarre for the elected Toronto City Council to pass only motions asking the Mayor to resign. Frankly, I can't perceive why council shouldn't have the power to remove a mayor.

[ed.: c/e]

I have now heard that question put to two different poly-sci scholars who specialize in Canadian electoral politics...and both of them say that it's basically "an oversight."

Pretty amazing, I thought.

[bleeding heart]

Of course they were telling the truth. Nobody is questioning that anymore.

So eyewitness testimony without a video record is unacceptable to you? You're saying they shouldn't have told anyone what they saw? I think most reasonable people would consider that to be irresponsible.

Further, as g-bambino pointed out elsewhere, reporters constantly--daily!--report matters using words like "a source close to the Minister said," or "an inside, anonymous source has stated....."

I can't see a substantive difference.

Edited November 15, 2013 by bleeding heart

[Topaz]

I think the province should bring in a law to help councils deal with mayors like Ford. Ford has the choice of leaving to get help, which everyone agrees he needs but he won't leave. This law would help other councils without Ontario better deal with mayors, who should not be seating as mayor but refuse to leave. Ford is only hurting himself by dragging this out and more he does this, more he will lose those people that do support him. This is going around the world and I'm sure people are shaking their heads and wondering why can't this guy be tossed out??

[Rue]

Municipal law and the power of municipalities to pass law and collect taxes is conferred by the provincial government under the province's Municipal Act. Municipal law is exclusively the jurisdiction of provinces and municipal governments their ability to do anything is defined by the province so ultimately any changes to the structure of municipal government and its powers can only come from

the province amending the Municipal Act.

For the province to pass any law now to remove Ford from office would require a majority vote and there is a minority government situation.

More to the point the current Premier understands the optics involved in not being elected as Premier removing someone who was elected. That just won't sell unless the has unanimous support from all members of the provincial legislature.

Furthermore, without the support of the Conservatives, the current Premier fears inciting a conservative block of voters that could tip the next provincial election in favour of Hudak so she is going to sound tough and act disgusted and act like she wants to do something but cover her butt by saying its up to the Conservatives and NDP in provincial parliament to tell her what to do.

That said the councillors have two methods they can act to in fact remove Ford from office although they can't actually physically remove him.

One is to not show up for three council meetings in a row. If all of the councillors, unanimously agreed not to attend the next 3 sessions, that would be all it takes to force a municipal election which is one method to try vacate the office of Ford. The right wingers on council probably do not want to do that because at this point if an election would be called, the right side would split the vote between Stintz and Tory and Ford getting a sympathy splinter vote enabling Chow to get elected. S

So they won't do that.

The next option is to strip him of any remaining powers he has. As Mayor, Ford did not have that many powers. This con game he has played portraying himself as a tax saviour messiah is just not true. He is only one vote on council. To have passed any tax savings bills, it required sufficient councillors other than Ford voting in a certain way. So his taking personal credit for saving money is just not

true.

More to the point his claim he has saved tax payers more money than any other Mayor is an insult to one's intelligence. First of all its impossible to prove. Secondly please go look at what he has done. Other than cut back on expense budgets of councillors what has he done? He takes personal credit for not increasing garbage removal wages. That may have very well not been the case if Miller remained, true. Miller was pro union. Ford argued no increases. But was its Ford's bellicose approach or his fellow councillors who argued the city could not afford it? How does he get full credit for that? Even if he does, what else? Do any of you know? Can any of you give me a definitive list of cost savings bills he personally initiated and can you add them up and compare them to other Mayors?

Enough with that myth. I do not doubt we have addition by subtraction, i.e., the fact that anyone but Miller got elected, its probable they did not initiate as many projects as he did depending on taxpayer's money but let's get serious-the budgets get cut no matter who is Mayor because of the fact there is only so much money to go around.

True he urged no carrying of a deficit like Miller did, but other Mayors did too including Lastman.

Now all that aside let's be real serious about this guy. When you see a man saying one thing but doing the exact opposite, the more that happens, the more frequent those kinds of detached behaviours appear, the more likely this person is going to crash big time.

Yesterday I saw some very serious signs of mental illness that are worrisome and any trained person would recognize. First of all when he confronted Wong on the floor, what you saw was someone on a strong sedative still raging. The dry mouth with lip licking, unfocused glassy eyes, problems breathing, all indicate someone medicated. Now whether he was given a medication from a doctor to deal with anxiety/anger and withdrawal symptoms from crank and booze or whether he's doing that on his own, I do not know, but I could swear to you from what I saw, I saw a guy on oxycontin or some other kind of narcotic and this seems to coincide with the day he admitted he smoked crack cocaine when he told the press they didn't ask him the same questions.

Ford is medicated. Whether its from a doctor or on his own he's medicated and its not working. The fact he got up and walked over and then a second time had to be held back by his brother shows even with all that medication in him, he's still out of control.

Now let's move to 2 more clinical symptoms. Throughout his comments he maintains a continuing denial of being an addict and needing to leave to get help. That is constant. That is evidenced by when being asked for example whether he took drugs or broke the code of behaviour for Mayors, he stated as his response that everyone breaks rules. Ford's denial used to be, no its a lie-its a fabricated lie by the left wingers and press engaged in a conspiracy. Then when the evidence did prove itself to exist, it switched to oh yah but it didn't happen while I was Mayor, hasn't impacted on my job and so its a personal issue only and respect my privacy. His entire mantra switched from there is no issue to there is one but its a private one. In both response formats he would deny addiction.

The key to the above defences was it has not prevented him from saving tax payers money which means the act of acting as a tax saver trumps anything else when determining whether he should stay or not.

Now that very last argument-I am still saving taxpayers money so my warts are superceded by that value ended yesterday.

It is now public knowledge he used staff, staff paid by taxpayers' money to get him booze. He also paid one of his staff double the salary he was entitled to. He has also used his office to get someone a job (tow truck driver's license) who is legally not entitled to one.

He has also been shown to not only have been drunk at work but missing from work. He is not only part of the gravy train he claims he is there to protect taxpayers from, but he is NOT doing the job he was elected to do. Not even his staunchest supporters can justify his being drunk at work, or sending his staff for booze.

Then he did something that prevents any defence. He first admitted he was driving while drunk which many suspected and certainly happened when he showed up at the Danforth drunk leaving his truck in the middle of nowhere. He not only admitted to breaking the law and driving drunk but endangering the safety of one of his staff while doing that. He used his position as Mayor and employer to engage in a crime that directly endangered not just the public he claims to be protecting from a gravy train but his own staff.

That shows he abuses his power to endanger others and knowingly does it. He knows its wrong and does it. The decision to drink and then drive is past addictive behaviour, its now in the domain of criminal behaviour. He's not just harming himself, but endangering others.

But it got even worse and its the most troublesome of all the signs for someone like me who has worked as a mediator with addicts who are abusive. It really really spooked me. When he suddenly turned and said he never said he ate pussy, but used those words,

the disconnect exploded. How can a man who would not say the words, actually then use them, and not only use them, but in a situation where only a seriously disturbed person would use them. All he had to say was-I never made any sexually inappropriate or suggestive comments. The fact he actually chose to say, I never said I eat pussy, the choice of those words and the context in which he used them, shows he uses that language so much, he sees nothing wrong with it. Then when he said, I have enough to eat at home, that is what we call a spontaneous comment. When people lack impulse control because their frontal lobe is being compromised by alcohol or other drugs, they do just that.

He has an impulse control problem that prevents him from hiding what he really believes and feels inside. Those words, I have enough to eat at home, showed not only a contempt for the woman he is alleged to have insulted, but his wife, children and family and the abuse did not end there. After insulting them so deeply he then dragged his wife out and made her stand next to him.

He then does it again-says one thing but does another-he says respect my family privacy, but he violates that vey privacy by exposing his wife to save his own hide. That is a drowning man throwing his wife under the buss to protect himself. That is the kind of abuse

tell tale to addicts like Ford, who have not just an addictive personality disorder and an obsessive compulsive disorder, but an anti-social personality disorder. These disorders are very complex and just having one is hard to treat but to try treat all of them in a grown adult who denies them-its just not going to happen.

It is very rare, if impossible to change an anti-social personality. At best you might be able to contain some of its symptoms by removing the person with it from situations that trigger anti-social behaviour but in Ford's case, the only way you could deal with any of his problems would be to remove him from public office, return him to a non public life, and convince him he is worth something to himself.

It is not going to happen. Ford will not rehabilitate. People like him even if they go into rehab. because they think they are cornered do not rehab. They bide their time, and then when the coast is clear, leave and get right back into their behaviour.

Once someone has been engaged in such behaviour patterns more than 10 years-the chances of their developing insights as to their behaviour and why they do what they do, becomes slim to none. As well the medication doesn't work.

Medication works well with people who have certain kinds of mood disorders but if you have a constellation of other disorders such as the anti-social personality disorder Ford has, it makes it very very problematic.

What I saw yesterday was an abused woman but on display by a sick man, a very sick man in a desperate move. The flinging himself through the front door when he could have walked out the back-that was the move of an aggressive man attacking like a bull and using his wife as a shield.

You can't get more f..cked then that.

There is zero doubt in my mind he is going to kill someone while drunk behind the wheel or lashing out in a rage. The only ending coming is either a tragic one where someone else dies, or Ford kills himself in a car accident or from a massive seizure.

I am telling you as blunt as I can. Even if you could get him into rehab. and convince him to take certain medications and stay clean, the strain of the withdrawal on his heart will trigger a heart attack or stroke.

He's a walking dead man.