Why our mindsets are so different

[Wilber]

I will call it as I see it; and of course a statement such as "one would think they [Americans] should be better informed about what goes on outside their universe" isn't meant to give offense at all. What was I thinking? As for leaving one's own country - that's a different topic.

Who are you quoting? It isn't me.

[-TSS-]

All societies will eventually become secular. That's the inevitable fact, be it good or be it bad but that's the fact. Even some societies which we today couldn't imagine as secular will one day become secular. In a secular society it is an individual's individual choice whether he/she believes in anything but the state will not have any part in it except respect the decision of that individual.

I would say that none of the European countries today can be viewed as anything else than secular. The change has been fast. It was only 20 years ago or so when many European catholic countries such as Poland, Lithuania, Malta and some others were well-known for their high level of religiousness. Today none of those countries could be said the same thing.

I'm not that familiar with the Central-American and South-American countries are they still fervently religious today but I'm convinced that even in those countries the development is heading towards secularism.

[bush_cheney2004]

Many Europeans ridicule the Americans because so relatively few Americans as a percentage of the population own a passport. However, it needs to be remembered that the USA is larger than Western-Europe in geographical size and travelling to Europe can be very costly.

There are other factors that contribute to less U.S. citizen travel abroad. Americans work more hours per year than most Europeans and take fewer vacation days, even when available. The nation is not just large (like Canada); it also has many travel destinations and national/state park systems that cannot be found in Europe. The U.S. is second only to France as a world tourism destination. Passport applications have actually increased significantly (now held by 30%) because of requirements for re-entry into the U.S. after travel in the Americas. Lastly, millions of Americans have traveled to Europe and many other destinations because of military service....no passport required.

Edited December 28, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

Who are you quoting? It isn't me.

It most definitely is you: http://www.mapleleaf...=15#entry869411

[Guest American Woman]

The nation is not just large (like Canada); it also has many travel destinations and national/state park systems that cannot be found in Europe.

From N.Y. to Hawaii, or even Michigan to Hawaii, is farther than most European countries are from each other - and as different from each other, too. The U.S. is not only large East to West, but from North to South; Canada is not populated in the same way the U.S. is. Very few other countries compare with the U.S. in size and diversity of what it has to offer: mountains, rivers, lakes, oceans, tropical rain forests, glaciers/snow, forests, deserts, canyons, swamps, islands, as well as cultural centers and the entertainment of Vegas and WDW, etc. We don't need passports to access warmer weather, which I would wager is the #1 reason most Canadians have passports - not because they are so much more cultural minded.

The U.S. is second only to France as a world tourism destination. Passport applications have actually increased significantly (now held by 30%) because of requirements for re-entry into the U.S. after travel in the Americas.

Considering how many countries are within close proximity to France, I think that says a lot.

Lastly, millions of Americans have traveled to Europe and many other destinations because of military service....no passport required.

Passports are also not required for Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, etc. Americans can travel farther without a passport, to more diverse locations, than any other country, to my knowledge. Anyone with information to the contrary can correct me.

[Wilber]

It most definitely is you: http://www.mapleleaf...=15#entry869411

Son of a gun, I'm surprised I said that. I take it back. I guess they shouldn't.

As far as leaving ones own country goes, it is a very important factor in understanding the rest of the world. One can get only so much from TV, books and the internet.

[Guest American Woman]

Son of a gun, I'm surprised I said that. I take it back. I guess they shouldn't.

Who are you quoting? Wasn't me. - Yes it was. *provides proof* - Oh, golly gee, I did say that, in spite of my claim that I didn't, so I'll just try to save face by saying the same thing again in a sarcastic way.

As far as leaving ones own country goes, it is a very important factor in understanding the rest of the world. One can get only so much from TV, books and the internet.

And I'm sure all of those Canadians heading for resorts in the tropics for the warm weather and sunshine are learning so very much about the world outside of their country. No doubt it really helps them understand the rest of the world much, much better.

FYI, one can learn a lot on forums like this; from posts such as yours. I know it's been a learning experience for me (and I've been to a lot of foreign countries - every continent except Australia ).

[bush_cheney2004]

From N.Y. to Hawaii, or even Michigan to Hawaii, is farther than most European countries are from each other - and as different from each other, too. The U.S. is not only large East to West, but from North to South; Canada is not populated in the same way the U.S. is.

Agreed...even Siberia is more densely populated than some parts of northern Canada. This graphic says it all:

We don't need passports to access warmer weather, which I would wager is the #1 reason most Canadians have passports - not because they are so much more cultural minded.

Americans also don't need passports to get cheaper air fares.

[-TSS-]

I wonder how large a percentage are there among Canadians for whom the only foreign country they have ever visited is the USA.

[Guest American Woman]

Whatever the figure, I think the same would be true in reverse regarding Americans visiting Canada, but I think we'd have to throw in Mexico for Americans, too.

Agreed...even Siberia is more densely populated than some parts of northern Canada. This graphic says it all:

Interesting; really puts it in perspective.

Edited December 29, 2012 by American Woman

[Wilber]

Who are you quoting? Wasn't me. - Yes it was. *provides proof* - Oh, golly gee, I did say that, in spite of my claim that I didn't, so I'll just try to save face by saying the same thing again in a sarcastic way.

And I'm sure all of those Canadians heading for resorts in the tropics for the warm weather and sunshine are learning so very much about the world outside of their country. No doubt it really helps them understand the rest of the world much, much better.

FYI, one can learn a lot on forums like this; from posts such as yours. I know it's been a learning experience for me (and I've been to a lot of foreign countries - every continent except Australia ).

Interpret it any way you want.

If you have travelled as much as you say, you should agree with what I said

Canadians don't just travel to get out of the cold. The third quarter is the most profitable for our airlines. Sometimes the only profitable quarter.

[Guest American Woman]

Interpret it any way you want.

I'm interpreting it the way it was said.

If you have travelled as much as you say, you should agree with what I said.

???

Because I've traveled a lot, I should agree that Americans should be better informed about what goes on beyond their universe?

Canadians don't just travel to get out of the cold. The third quarter is the most profitable for our airlines. Sometimes the only profitable quarter.

So how many Canadians traveling internationally do so on Canadian airlines? Furthermore, most Canadians travel within Canada, so it stands to reason that the most busy travel period for your airlines would be in the summer, during Canada's best weather. Which has nothing to do with international travel. Furthermore, all "foreign travel" doesn't involve flying; many Canadians drive to warm, sunny U.S. destinations. Or drive here to shop. Which hardly adds to their knowledge of the world.

At any rate, think what you will; I just find it ironic that you are saying Americans should be more aware of what goes on outside of their universe. Like I said - it's all a learning experience.

[Wilber]

I spent nearly 30 years flying for several Canadian airlines, most of it international and have a very good idea where people travel. BTW, what is it that disqualifies a country because it is warm in the winter?

[August1991]

Probably more accurate to say religion plays less of a role in the public discourse in Canada than the U.S. Perhaps that would satisfy the pedants.

On this, I'm gonna stick with my original assessment: Canada is a country of Catholics and America is a country of Protestants.

For a variety of reasons, Catholics (such as Justin Trudeau to Dalton McGuinty, or Joe Clark, Brian Mulroney and Paul Martin) no longer want to talk much about their religious beliefs.

Protestants, for a variety of reasons, are less reticent to talk about God.

[Guest American Woman]

I spent nearly 30 years flying for several Canadian airlines, most of it international and have a very good idea where people travel.

If you've flown for Canadian airlines for nearly 30 years, if most of it was international as you say, that doesn't answer my questions or address the issues I raised.

BTW, what is it that disqualifies a country because it is warm in the winter?

???

Disqualifies it from what?

[Guest American Woman]

On this, I'm gonna stick with my original assessment: Canada is a country of Catholics and America is a country of Protestants.

For a variety of reasons, Catholics (such as Justin Trudeau to Dalton McGuinty, or Joe Clark, Brian Mulroney and Paul Martin) no longer want to talk much about their religious beliefs.

Protestants, for a variety of reasons, are less reticent to talk about God.

Your head of state can't be a Catholic; you're still very much tied to a protestant country in that regard. Do you think that has anything to do with it? Catholics in the U.S. certainly have no more qualms about speaking of their religious beliefs than the next person. I get the impression that in general, Canadians are made to feel as if they shouldn't speak of their beliefs; I get the feeling that more than a few Canadians on this board feel as if they are superior for their lack of religious beliefs, and if this is the atmosphere in Canada, I can see why some would be reluctant to speak of their beliefs.

Edited to add: I think they still speak and act based on their beliefs as much as the next person, but the religious aspect of it isn't out in the open.

Edited December 30, 2012 by American Woman

[-TSS-]

It can't be denied that religion still has a lot of influence in the US politics. Could you imagine the political leader of any other country saying in public that God spoke to him and told him to start a war?

[Guest American Woman]

It can't be denied that religion still has a lot of influence in the US politics. Could you imagine the political leader of any other country saying in public that God spoke to him and told him to start a war?

Who said that?

Edited to add: Still waiting for an answer to my question.....

Edited December 30, 2012 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

It can't be denied that religion still has a lot of influence in the US politics. Could you imagine the political leader of any other country saying in public that God spoke to him and told him to start a war?

Yes...just as Canada's PM Chretien invoked God to win an election:

Chrétien, taking advantage of the furor, likened the Tories to the children who teased him when he was a boy in Shawinigan. "When I was a kid people were laughing at me," he said at an appearance in

Nova Scotia

. "

But I accepted that because God gave me other qualities and I'm grateful.

" The speech, which one Tory described as one Chrétien had waited his whole life to deliver, moved many in the audience to tears. Chrétien's approval ratings shot up, nullifying the only advantage the Tories still had over him.

http://en.wikipedia....e_1993_election

Then there is this bloviated title for the Queen of Canada and Head of State (invoking God's grace as the sanctioning authority):

English: Elizabeth the Second, by the

Grace of God

of the United Kingdom, Canada and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith

French

: Elizabeth Deux,

par la grâce de Dieu Reine

du Royaume-Uni, du Canada et de ses autres royaumes et territoires, Chef du Commonwealth, Défenseur de la Foi

Edited December 30, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest American Woman]

I'm still wondering what American political leader said "in public that God spoke to him and told him to start a war."

[-TSS-]

I think you know very well who I am talking about.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

Edited December 30, 2012 by -TSS-

[Guest American Woman]

I think you know very well who I am talking about.

http://www.guardian....oct/07/iraq.usa

No, I didn't know who you were talking about. The claim that Bush said it is such old news (your link is from 2005) that I thought perhaps someone else had actually said it, so I didn't want to assume, and then get 'that's not who he/I was talking about' in response.

At any rate, I'll point out again that Bush denies ever saying any such thing, and if he had said it, why would he deny it? Note that Bush isn't being quoted. Someone else - Nabil Shaath, a Palestinian foreign minister at the time - is quoted as quoting Bush. He's claiming Bush said it. If you can find a quote from Bush, I'd be interested in seeing it - because I've never seen one.

[bush_cheney2004]

I think you know very well who I am talking about.

Even if it was true, so what ? The US has started wars for far less....with or without "God".

[Guest American Woman]

Even if it was true, so what ? The US has started wars for far less....with or without "God".

Furthermore, it sounds as if there's questions as to whether or not Harper's religious beliefs are a determining some of his policies, but I'll bet TSS never heard about that in Finland.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/religions-fair-game-if-it-motivates-politics/article4450326/

[The_Squid]

Furthermore, it sounds as if there's questions as to whether or not Harper's religious beliefs are a determining some of his policies, but I'll bet TSS never heard about that in Finland.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/religions-fair-game-if-it-motivates-politics/article4450326/

You aren't concerned with your own president talking with God and taking orders, why would you worry where Canada's PM gets his motivation? More hypocrisy.

Personally, I think anyone who takes orders from God to do political things is a religious nutbar wh shouldn't hold office.

Edited December 31, 2012 by The_Squid