Bonam Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) How about, instead of rehashing what is little more than a historical footnote, you can explain why this moldering corpse matters one bit. It matters because critics of Israel here ignore history, even the history that happened just a few days ago (let alone the roots of the conflict). Such recent history as Hamas launching hundreds of rockets into Israel over the past few weeks is ignored in attempts to paint Israel as an aggressor. Just as the role of the Arabs (and their leaders like the Mufti) in starting the conflict is ignored in favor of painting Israel as an evil occupying force that struck unprovoked in 1967. Edited November 15, 2012 by Bonam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 That's fine if you think me lying. I don't think you are lying. I don't really care/see the point. So was his nephew also 'a marginal historical character'? Well he's dead too. I guess what it boils down to for me is that your repeated references to the Grand Mufti don't make an argument. You want to claim modern Palestinains are Nazis? have the balls to make the claim: I'm sure you could find plenty of contemporary examples to support such an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 It matters because critics of Israel here ignore history, even the history that happened just a few days ago (let alone the roots of the conflict). Such recent history as Hamas launching hundreds of rockets into Israel over the past few weeks is ignored in attempts to paint Israel as an aggressor. Bollocks. This conflict is all about competing versions of history. It won't be solved until everyone moves on and gets with the times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Bollocks. This conflict is all about competing versions of history. It won't be solved until everyone moves on and gets with the times. Pretty sure Israel is moving-on as we speak. Still no comment on the Mufti's nephew? I guess he was also a minor historical character and not worth mentioning in respect to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Bollocks. This conflict is all about competing versions of history. It won't be solved until everyone moves on and gets with the times. Not so much competing versions of history, as versions of reality. Look at jacee, wyly, and "Hudson" here who all ignore the reality of Palestinians firing hundreds of rockets into Israel. They one-sidedly blame Israel for striking Gaza, without mentioning or caring why such strikes were necessary. That's what's bollocks, not historical references. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Pretty sure Israel is moving-on as we speak. Still no comment on the Mufti's nephew? I guess he was also a minor historical character and not worth mentioning in respect to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Again: he's dead. The current incarnation of the organization he founded is in direct conflict with the troublemakers out of Gaza. You don't have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 The only point is the right of the Israelis to defend themselves. That's all there is. If there were no attacks going one way, there would be no retaliation going the other way. There is talk of children's lives. The Israelis care more about the lives of Palestinian children than those hiding behind them while firing rockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 The only point is the right of the Israelis to defend themselves. That's all there is. If there were no attacks going one way, there would be no retaliation going the other way. There is talk of children's lives. The Israelis care more about the lives of Palestinian children than those hiding behind them while firing rockets. Who are you addressing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Again: he's dead. The current incarnation of the organization he founded is in direct conflict with the troublemakers out of Gaza. You don't have a point. Different day...same story. Same story since the day I was born...and you too, no doubt. I'm here to remind certain posters about history. I'd rather talk about Blake Lively's rear end...but that's another thread. So while there are those claiming Israel is an invader...or colonists...or full of Nazis...I'm going to bring-up the REAL Nazis...like Hamas and Hezbollah (et al)...and Arafat...and the Mufti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Different day...same story. Same story since the day I was born...and you too, no doubt. I'm here to remind certain posters about history. I'd rather talk about Blake Lively's rear end...but that's another thread. So while there are those claiming Israel is an invader...or colonists...or full of Nazis...I'm going to bring-up the REAL Nazis...like Hamas and Hezbollah (et al)...and Arafat...and the Mufti. Not real Nazis, though. The most you could say is he anti-semitic Mufti (who is really more hapless than anything else) rolled with the anti-semitic Nazis and his anti-semitic successors picked up a few Nazi ideas along the way. It doesn't really have much bearing on the current conflict. Not to mention it's a narrative that ignores other historic forces that have shaped the current situation, like Arab nationalism, Zionism's darker impulses (not that I want to one that can of worms here; suffice to say denial isn't a one-way street), Saudi-sponsored Islamism, etc etc etc. Edited November 15, 2012 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Not real Nazis, though. Oh yeah...real Nazis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Who are you addressing? I try not to use the quote function if I think I can get the post in right after the one I am addressing. It was yours. But my post is a making a general point. Looking back it was a bit obscure... Edited November 15, 2012 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Oh yeah...real Nazis. What does that make this guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 A collaborator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 A collaborator. By your logic, a Nazi. For someone who is claiming to be all about historical accuracy, you seem happy to play fast and loose with the labels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 By your logic, a Nazi. For someone who is claiming to be all about historical accuracy, you seem happy to play fast and loose with the labels. Indeed...not a nice fellow. He should have been hanged @ Nuremberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Sounds like Tel Aviv is now taking hits. Well out of the range of Hamas's infamous home made al-Qassam rockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 So I'm a lttle puzzled by this thread. Last week I bumped into him in the chat room, seemed like a nice guy. And this thread is right in his wheel house so to speak. So where is bud? I don't think he's made one Jew hatin' post in this thread, what the hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Statement by the U.S. (emphasis mine, in light of the title of this thread, which accuses Israel of "starting" this latest crisis): We strongly condemn the barrage of rocket fire from Gaza into southern Israel, and we regret the death and injury of innocent Israeli and Palestinian civilians caused by the ensuing violence. There is no justification for the violence that Hamas and other terrorist organizations are employing against the people of Israel. We call on those responsible to stop these cowardly acts immediately. We support Israel’s right to defend itself, and we encourage Israel to continue to take every effort to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas claims to have the best interests of the Palestinian people at heart, yet it continues to engage in violence that is counterproductive to the Palestinian cause. Attacking Israel on a near daily basis does nothing to help Palestinians in Gaza or to move the Palestinian people any closer to achieving self determination. By Canada (emphasis mine, in light of the title of this thread, which accuses Israel of "starting" this latest crisis): We fundamentally believe that Israel has the right to defend itself and its citizens from terrorist threats. Far too often, the Jewish people find themselves on the front lines in the struggle against terrorism, the great struggle of our generation. Just last weekend, more than 100 rockets rained down on civilians in southern Israel from positions in the Gaza Strip. Canada condemns the terrorist group Hamas and stands with Israel as it deals with regional threats to peace and security. By the U.K. (emphasis mine, in light of the title of this thread, which accuses Israel of "starting" this latest crisis): I am gravely concerned by the situation in Gaza and southern Israel and deeply regret the loss of civilian life on both sides. I call on all those involved to avoid any action which risks civilian casualties or escalates the crisis. Hamas bears principal responsibility for the current crisis. I utterly condemn rocket attacks from Gaza into southern Israel by Hamas and other armed groups. This creates an intolerable situation for Israeli civilians in southern Israel, who have the right to live without fear of attack from Gaza. The rocket attacks also risk worsening the plight of Palestinian civilians in Gaza, which is already precarious. Hamas and other armed groups in Gaza should cease attacks against Israel immediately. I call on those in the region with influence over Hamas to use that influence to bring about an end to the attacks. I also strongly urge Israel to do their utmost to reduce tension, avoid civilian casualties and increase the prospects for both sides to live in peace. It is imperative to avoid the risk of a spiral of violence. The escalation of the conflict would be in no one’s interest, particularly at a time of instability in the region. These events underline once again the fragility of the situation and the urgent need for progress toward a two state solution which allows Israelis and Palestinians to live alongside each other in peace and security. Britain will do all it can to support such progress and an urgent resumptions of negotiations. http://blog.standfor...to-have-friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Israel should get jiggy with it.....draw in Iran to take care of another pressing issue. Obama is going to find out what he just signed up for. in a second term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 This latest boldness started after the Emir of Qatar visited Gaza and pledged some $250 million to assist Hamas in 'reconstruction'...as it was termed. A new sugar-daddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Yeah, Israel moving so soon after the election makes you wonder what their bigger game is. It probably isn't as simple as detering rockets from Gaza. I am guessing that they won't send in ground forces but who knows? Morsi's response in Cairo will be interesting. he may have commented already but I haven't heard anything yet. This could be Israel\s way of stretching Iran even thinner. I\m not so sure opening another front is good for Israel but that depends on what Egypt and Turkey say and do. I'm also interested in the US response. Interesting times to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j44 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) This latest boldness started after the Emir of Qatar visited Gaza and pledged some $250 million to assist Hamas in 'reconstruction'...as it was termed. A new sugar-daddy. I don't think this makes any sense. Edited November 15, 2012 by j44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Since Israel has won the war with the Arabic neighbors back in the day, the spoils of war go to them and people have no issues with it. Hypothetically if Israel lost a war and the spoils go to another people, we'd have some here scream out that it's a new holocaust. it's a nice double standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Israel should get jiggy with it.....draw in Iran to take care of another pressing issue. Obama is going to find out what he just signed up for. in a second term. Since around 2004 Israel has been saying Iran is 5 years away from the bomb and they've been posturing about an attack ever since. So how come nothing? It's not like Israel has ever been concerned about world opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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