Hudson Jones Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Nowhere does it say that Italy managed to supply Irgun. So you'll have to do better than that. Stern might have WISHED Italy could supply weapons, but the British Navy based in the Med prevented ANY contact between Italy and the Mandate of Palestine. The Battle of Taranto in 1940 put an end to any thoughts of Italy remaining a sea power during WW2. El Alamein put an end to any wet dreams about overrunning the British Mandate. Look: The Stern Gang and Lehi Group ATTACKED the allied forces. They killed many British soldiers. They collaborated with Italy and 'wished' they could collaborate with Germany. Why did they do this? Because of self-interest. Because of their goal to take over Palestine. Why did al-Hajj collaborate with the Nazis? Because of self-interest. Because of his goal to take over Palestine and prevent more Jews to move into Palestine. Does it matter to you that the Arabs including many Palestinians fought alongside the British in the world war? No. Why? Because of your self-interest. Because you are purposely being selective with your version of history. Because you want to convince people that the Palestinians are an extension of the Nazis so that people do not feel empathy towards their plight against Israel's brutal occupation. Edited November 15, 2012 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 So tell me again DogOnPorch, are you going to apply the same standard and hold Israel's feet to the fire for its past involvement in collaboration with the axis and their attacks on the British and the Allied supply routes? What little effect they had against the British really didn't get 'effective' until after WW2 ended. But, either way, Irgun and the Stern Gang were terrorist groups and not part of Haganah nor the Jewish National Council. Haganah went as far as sinking Irgun's ship, if I recall...a landing craft they had purchased as WW2 surplus. When the groups were decimated during the 1948 war, they were disbanded and reabsorbed once purged. Of course, Mr Stern got a British bullet or two for his troubles... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Signals.Cpl Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Since Israel has won the war with the Arabic neighbors back in the day, the spoils of war go to them and people have no issues with it. Hypothetically if Israel lost a war and the spoils go to another people, we'd have some here scream out that it's a new holocaust. it's a nice double standard. In this case it has nothing to do with the spoils of war, the Arabs gambled and lost, then used Palestinians as a perpetual crisis to be brought out when war is desired. At the end of the day Israel does not want to be in the Gaza any more then the Palestinians want them there. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Look: The Stern Gang and Lehi Group ATTACKED the allied forces. They killed many British soldiers. They collaborated with Italy and 'wished' they could collaborate with Germany. Why did they do this? Because of self-interest. Because of their goal to take over Palestine. Why did al-Hajj collaborate with the Nazis? Because of self-interest. Because of his goal to take over Palestine and prevent more Jews to move into Palestine. Does it matter to you that the Arabs including many Palestinians fought alongside the British in the world war? No. Why? Because of your self-interest. Because you are purposely being selective with your version of history. Because you want to convince people that the Palestinians are an extension of the Nazis and you base all of this on a man's collaboration with the Nazis in the 40's. So are you going to provide the historical evidence that Italy supplied Irgun in the British Mandate or are you just going to hope your word is good enough? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Signals.Cpl Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Weren't former Israeli Prime Ministers leaders of groups who collaborated with the Axis of Evil? In case you don't know, both Irgun and Lehi received weapons from Italy and they attacked the Allied forces and cut off Allied supplies lines. You think they should have also been hanged? In 1948 Albert Einstein 27 Jewish intellectuals wrote a letter to the New York Times condemning the Irgun and its activities. They also took a moment to call the former Irgun Commander, Menachem Begin, a Fascist. Link Axis of Evil? Iran, Iraq and North Korea? I highly doubt Israel plays with those guys... Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
GostHacked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 $400 million buys a lot of rockets...some of which are striking Tel Aviv. That's like 60km from Gaza... And what kind of hardware does the Israelis use? Who funds them? And why is that not brought into question? Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
Hudson Jones Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) What little effect they had against the British really didn't get 'effective' until after WW2 ended. But, either way, Irgun and the Stern Gang were terrorist groups and not part of Haganah nor the Jewish National Council. Haganah went as far as sinking Irgun's ship, if I recall...a landing craft they had purchased as WW2 surplus. When the groups were decimated during the 1948 war, they were disbanded and reabsorbed once purged. Of course, Mr Stern got a British bullet or two for his troubles... And Mr. Begin (Irgun - terrorist group) and Mr. Shamir (Lehi - terrorist group) went on to become Israeli prime ministers. Edited November 15, 2012 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 And Mr. Begin (Irgun - terrorist group) and Mr. Shamir (Lehi - terrorist group) went on to become Israeli prime ministers. So? Did the British charge them or try to execute them out-of-hand? Perhaps they already had their man. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 So? And that is what we say whenever Mufti is thrown out. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
Hudson Jones Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 So are you going to provide the historical evidence that Italy supplied Irgun in the British Mandate or are you just going to hope your word is good enough? I'm not going to look beyond Wikipedia, but this historical fact is repeated frequently in respected historical books such as my favourite, "The Righteous Victims" by Benny Morris. Until World War II the group armed itself with weapons purchased in Europe, primarily Italy and Poland, and smuggled to Palestine. The Irgun also established workshops that manufactured spare parts and attachments for the weapons. Also manufactured were land mines and simple hand grenades. Another way in which the Irgun armed itself was theft of weapons from the British police and military. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 So? Did the British charge them or try to execute them out-of-hand? Perhaps they already had their man. They made deals with them of course. Do you also want proof that these two former Israeli prime ministers were the head of terrorist organizations which killed the British and Palestinians? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Guest American Woman Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 And what kind of hardware does the Israelis use? Who funds them? And why is that not brought into question? Are you comparing Israel with Hamas? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 And what kind of hardware does the Israelis use? Who funds them? And why is that not brought into question? On land the Israelis use their own and captured Arab gear. They probably still have a good number of older M113s from the US. In the air, the Israelis now use US aircraft but are quite capable of building their own if needed. Israel's GDP is well over $200 billion...one of the richest economies on the planet. The US funds some 3 billion worth of supplies to Israel annually...mostly jet fuel and parts and weapons for the IAF. As I'm sure you're aware, the US gets pay back in the form of technology exchanges and a safe port in the Med. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 And that is what we say whenever Mufti is thrown out. He wasn't the leader of a tiny terrorist group. He was the de-facto leader of the Arab people in the Levant...self proclaimed or otherwise. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Hudson Jones Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 Are you comparing Israel with Hamas? How can they be compared when one group is armed to the teeth with the latest gadgets and the other has mostly old weapons and homemade rockets? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Signals.Cpl Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Hi bud. You never asked me before. The information is easily found if you cared to look beyond your desperate attempt to somehow convince people that Palestinians are an extension of the Nazis to somehow discredit their plight against a brutal occupier. So please tell me what should Israel do? Should they stop any and all retaliation? Put down their arms and let the rockets rain in? Would you advocate for the same thing if it were Canada? If rockets were raining in any major city of Canada we should sit by and let it happen? Or would you support retaliation?You ignore the actions of Palestinian terrorists and blame the whole mess on Israel, neither one is completely innocent but at the end of the day one side is defending itself while the other is sacrificing its people to further the goals of it "allies" nations that dont care one little bit for them. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 They made deals with them of course. Do you also want proof that these two former Israeli prime ministers were the head of terrorist organizations which killed the British and Palestinians? You STILL haven't shown how Italy managed to supply a Jewish terrorist group in the British Mandate even though there was no way of getting there in one piece. Let's get that one done first. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest American Woman Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 How can they be compared when one group is armed to the teeth with the latest gadgets and the other has mostly old weapons and homemade rockets? So that's why you think they can't be compared? Quote
GostHacked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 On land the Israelis use their own and captured Arab gear. They probably still have a good number of older M113s from the US. In the air, the Israelis now use US aircraft but are quite capable of building their own if needed. Israel's GDP is well over $200 billion...one of the richest economies on the planet. The US funds some 3 billion worth of supplies to Israel annually...mostly jet fuel and parts and weapons for the IAF. As I'm sure you're aware, the US gets pay back in the form of technology exchanges and a safe port in the Med. You complain about 250 mill from one source to the Palestinians, while the US is throwing billions at Israel? And how safe is this safe port in the Med? Heads up!!! Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
Hudson Jones Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 So that's why you think they can't be compared? No they cannot. One is the occupier and oppressor, while the other is defending the occupied and oppressed. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) You STILL haven't shown how Italy managed to supply a Jewish terrorist group in the British Mandate even though there was no way of getting there in one piece. Let's get that one done first. You are a desperate man. The Stern Gang and Lehi Group ATTACKED the allied forces. They killed many British soldiers. They collaborated with Italy and 'wished' they could collaborate with Germany. Why did they do this? Because of self-interest. Because of their goal to take over Palestine. Why did al-Hajj collaborate with the Nazis? Because of self-interest. Because of his goal to take over Palestine and prevent more Jews to move into Palestine. Does it matter to you that the Arabs including many Palestinians fought alongside the British in the world war? No. Why? Because of your self-interest. Because you are purposely being selective with your version of history. Because you want to convince people that the Palestinians are an extension of the Nazis so that people do not feel empathy towards their plight against Israel's brutal occupation. Edited November 15, 2012 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
DogOnPorch Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Oh...and I can buy guns from Italy. Jews can too. But you're claiming Fascist Italy supplied Irgun to attack an Allied force during WW2. Not buy weapons from gun dealers before the war. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 So please tell me what should Israel do? Should they stop any and all retaliation? Put down their arms and let the rockets rain in? Would you advocate for the same thing if it were Canada? If rockets were raining in any major city of Canada we should sit by and let it happen? Or would you support retaliation? You ignore the actions of Palestinian terrorists and blame the whole mess on Israel, neither one is completely innocent but at the end of the day one side is defending itself while the other is sacrificing its people to further the goals of it "allies" nations that dont care one little bit for them. Personally I really don't care either way anymore. This conflict has been going on for decades and is not going to stop anytime soon. So whatever, I say arm them both equally, let them have at each other until only one is standing. I might place bets on this too, could make some money. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
Signals.Cpl Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 Because you want to convince people that the Palestinians are an extension of the Nazis so that people do not feel empathy towards their plight against Israel's brutal occupation. You are right, I come to your house and kill your family but you are the brital one for defending yourself and your family. I have not heard any of you say anyhting about the Palestinians stopping their rocket attacks. Seems to me you would like Israel to stop defending itself while letting Palestinians kill Israelis with impunity because as an entity they are stupid enough to let others use them as a pawn in their own agenda. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
Guest American Woman Posted November 15, 2012 Report Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) No they cannot. One is the occupier and oppressor, while the other is defending the occupied and oppressed. You're the one who posted the image of the dead Palestinian child that so moved you, as you say nothing in condemnation of Hamas. I'm guessing that you know exactly what I was making reference to, and yet this is how you choose to respond. Even if you were by some chance clueless, your lack of criticism of Hamas sure is telling. Very telling. Edited November 15, 2012 by American Woman Quote
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