The_Squid Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/09/03/psac-banner-harper-grounded.html The cops claim that it was in restricted air space. Nav Can has confirmed that the plane was not in restricted air space. Is this a case of the RCMP overstepping their authority again and restricting free speech? I think it is. Quote
TheNewTeddy Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 This will all blow over in a week or two, and this sort of thing will start to become normal and standard. Quote Feel free to contact me outside the forums. Add "TheNewTeddy" to Twitter, Facebook, or Hotmail to reach me!
Guest Manny Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 The RCMP do what they're told. Quote
GostHacked Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 There is only very small restricted air spaces over Ottawa. The PMs house is one of them. However in order to fly over the city, you need to talk to the tower at the airport for permission as to avoid the airports flight paths of other planes. But the size of these restricted spaces are so small you can get in and out of one before you even really realize it. That aside you can bet that this was only because of this sign. You can't protest, you can't have free speech. Quote
eyeball Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 This will all blow over in a week or two, and this sort of thing will start to become normal and standard. That's right, and soon enough simply being with-held for suspicion of dissidence instead of being tortured for it will seem lenient and coddlesome. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
ReeferMadness Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 This is a direct affront to free speech. There needs to be a full investigation and consequences for whoever made this decision. The police should not be able to hide behind "security" reasons when it comes to suppressing dissent. And if it turns out that this decision was made politically, well..... Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
pete t teepee Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 You should read the updated story. Cops now say they know he was never in protected air space and they simply wanted to speak to him under the premise that he was promoting hatred. BS. Harper wanted him down. Harper gets what he wants. Nothing new. Quote Oppenheimer was able to change more than the course of a war. He changed the entire course of human history. Is it wrong to hold on to that kind of hope? V: I have not come for what you hoped to do. I've come for what you did.
Topaz Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 Does this mean all those fed. workers who voted for the Tories have second thoughts?? Quote
AngusThermopyle Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 I've read several versions of what happened and find it quite troubling. What troubles me is the way the RCMP appear to be jumping all over the board trying to justify what they did. First it was restricted airspace, then a security threat and now hate speech. Seems pretty obvious that they are reaching on this one. There should be a full inquiry and disciplinary action if warranted. Quote I yam what I yam - Popeye
GostHacked Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 I've read several versions of what happened and find it quite troubling. What troubles me is the way the RCMP appear to be jumping all over the board trying to justify what they did. First it was restricted airspace, then a security threat and now hate speech. Seems pretty obvious that they are reaching on this one. There should be a full inquiry and disciplinary action if warranted. 100% agreed, this looked totally politically motivated to me. Quote
jacee Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) I've read several versions of what happened and find it quite troubling. What troubles me is the way the RCMP appear to be jumping all over the board trying to justify what they did. First it was restricted airspace, then a security threat and now hate speech. Seems pretty obvious that they are reaching on this one. There should be a full inquiry and disciplinary action if warranted. Absolutely. This isn't the first time the RCMP have acted politically to protect Harper from criticism. Remember them physically accosting and removing people from Harper's staged ra-ra rallies? The RCMP had to make a public apology then to the Canadian taxpayers WHO PAY THEIR SALARIES.It's very significant that the RCMP didn't say a thing to the pilot about restricted airspace ... they knew he wasn't in violation. Just a political threat of "hate speech", which is just plain stupid because hate speech is about groups not individuals. And of course the RCMP actions have resulted in much more publicity for PSAC than the banner ever would. Edited September 4, 2012 by jacee Quote
Shady Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 It all comes down to whether it was in restricted air space. Until that's confirmed, everything else is moot. Quote
Canuckistani Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 It all comes down to whether it was in restricted air space. Until that's confirmed, everything else is moot. What part of Nav Can has confirmed that the plane was not in restricted air space. in the OP didn't you understand?This is the same as the guy who was canoeing down a river and was forced to portage because Harper was having a party on shore and didn't want to be disturbed by this guy. But, it's not a CPC issue, the RCMP have always been suck ups to the powers that be. Remember Sgt Pepper and Chretien? Quote
PIK Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 Is this what our country is coming to, this protesting is getting out of hand and if someone flew around saying the same thing about chretien I still would be pissed. This is nothing but childish behaviour with these signs. Actually I find it embarressing . This shit never happened during chrettien's 13 years, why because the conservatives in this country do not act like a bunch of children.People need to grow up. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
tectenciemS Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 At me a similar situation. It is possible to discuss. Quote
wyly Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 Is this what our country is coming to, this protesting is getting out of hand and if someone flew around saying the same thing about chretien I still would be pissed. This is nothing but childish behaviour with these signs. Actually I find it embarressing . This shit never happened during chrettien's 13 years, why because the conservatives in this country do not act like a bunch of children.People need to grow up. suppression of the vote, suppression of protest/freedom of speech...what's embarrassing is this is happening in supposedly modern democratic nation... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Guest Derek L Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 The article is factually incorrect, as the RCMP can’t order an aircraft to land……….Such requests have to go through Transport Canada, via either/or NAV-CAN, DND (NORAD) or PSA (which the RCMP falls under)……. Ultimately, the aircraft would have been ordered to land by the Civil Aviation Operations Division of Transport Canada……….If that failed, it would have been “landed” by a Hornet. Quote
GostHacked Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 Is this what our country is coming to, this protesting is getting out of hand and if someone flew around saying the same thing about chretien I still would be pissed. This is nothing but childish behaviour with these signs. Actually I find it embarressing . This shit never happened during chrettien's 13 years, why because the conservatives in this country do not act like a bunch of children.People need to grow up. I support your right to display whatever political point you want to make in the air. Either you accept others rights to free speech, or eventually you are going to lose your right to free speech through your own actions of not allowing someone else to have the same right. Quote
GostHacked Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 The article is factually incorrect, as the RCMP can’t order an aircraft to land……….Such requests have to go through Transport Canada, via either/or NAV-CAN, DND (NORAD) or PSA (which the RCMP falls under)……. Ultimately, the aircraft would have been ordered to land by the Civil Aviation Operations Division of Transport Canada……….If that failed, it would have been “landed” by a Hornet. Correct. Quote
The_Squid Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Posted September 4, 2012 The article is factually incorrect, as the RCMP can’t order an aircraft to land……….Such requests have to go through Transport Canada, via either/or NAV-CAN, DND (NORAD) or PSA (which the RCMP falls under)……. Ultimately, the aircraft would have been ordered to land by the Civil Aviation Operations Division of Transport Canada……….If that failed, it would have been “landed” by a Hornet. The RCMP initiated the order for the pilot to land. Who actually told the pilot over the radio is neither here nor there. Quote
wyly Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 The article is factually incorrect, as the RCMP can’t order an aircraft to land……….Such requests have to go through Transport Canada, via either/or NAV-CAN, DND (NORAD) or PSA (which the RCMP falls under)……. Ultimately, the aircraft would have been ordered to land by the Civil Aviation Operations Division of Transport Canada……….If that failed, it would have been “landed” by a Hornet. as the pilot broke no laws transport canada wouldn't have ordered it, how do they know what the banner said or why would they even care, planes pulling banners is routine stuff as long as he stayed out of restricted airspace they no reason to order him down....this came from the RCMP, likely requested from the PMO's office... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
GostHacked Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 The RCMP initiated the order for the pilot to land. Who actually told the pilot over the radio is neither here nor there. Actually it seems to be the crux of this argument. If the RCMP cannot directly tell a plane to land, then the claim that they told the plane to land is a lie. I would guess the RCMP can make the request, but that needs to go through certain channels in order to be executed. But in the end, yeah it's neither here or there. The action of grounding the plane is 100% politically driven. Quote
waldo Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 The article is factually incorrect, as the RCMP can’t order an aircraft to land……….Such requests have to go through Transport Canada, via either/or NAV-CAN, DND (NORAD) or PSA (which the RCMP falls under)……. Ultimately, the aircraft would have been ordered to land by the Civil Aviation Operations Division of Transport Canada……….If that failed, it would have been “landed” by a Hornet. per the media, a NAV-CAN spokesperson referred all requests for information to the RCMP. I look forward to your follow-up info/cite that shows, categorically, the request for the plane to land did not originate from the RCMP. Quote
wyly Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 Actually it seems to be the crux of this argument. If the RCMP cannot directly tell a plane to land, then the claim that they told the plane to land is a lie. I would guess the RCMP can make the request, but that needs to go through certain channels in order to be executed. But in the end, yeah it's neither here or there. The action of grounding the plane is 100% politically driven. and for the RCMP to make a request they would likely have done so because of a reported complaint...so we'll need to find out where the complaint originated, I'm guessing the PMO's office... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Guest Derek L Posted September 4, 2012 Report Posted September 4, 2012 The RCMP initiated the order for the pilot to land. Who actually told the pilot over the radio is neither here nor there. The RCMP would have been a small cog in the entire affair, as any aircraft flying near or in restricted airspace, in our Post 9/11 world are monitored, in this case, by both MacDonald-Cartier and CFB North Bay………And such orders, regardless if the plane is towing a sign, are carried out automatically, fore DND/NORAD, Transport Canada, NAV-CAN, and the PSA(including RCMP “A” div) don’t know if said aircraft is piloted by a Mohamed Atta or a Mathias Rust (or someone in between) Quote
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