.

[On Guard for Thee]

I think Waldo summed it pretty well up above. Succinctly, if the governement says there was voter fraud, as in vouching, then we need a law. If the government says there was no voter fraud, as in robocalls, then we don't need a law. And you like your pablum how?

[Topaz]

IF one goes over every single item that Pierre said needed changing to be a fair election, seem to me maybe he wanted all those changes because perhaps the Tories had used them over the time they have been in power? You know there is a way to have control over an election or certain elections and still be legal.

[cindi]

I think Waldo summed it pretty well up above. Succinctly, if the governement says there was voter fraud, as in vouching, then we need a law. If the government says there was no voter fraud, as in robocalls, then we don't need a law. And you like your pablum how?

Pablum? Voter fraud here,

http://www.danieldickin.ca/2014/04/the-voter-fraud-no-ones-talking-about.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+DanielDickin+%28Daniel+Dickin%29

[waldo]

Voter fraud here

from the Elections Canada investigation:

The evidence indicated that all electors voting at the three reserve polling divisions had identified themselves as residents of the polling division where they voted and had met all other legal requirements. Available documentation has established that none of these electors voted twice.

Lastly, there were also allegations of missing ballots or ballot box "stuffing" in certain polling divisions. A thorough analysis of election documents has shown that all ballots were accounted for.

Based on the results of the investigation, the Commissioner has concluded that there was no evidence of wrongdoing that affected the outcome of the vote in Desnethé–Missinippi–Churchill River during the federal election held on January 23, 2006

[cybercoma]

Who are you going to believe, waldo? Elections Canada or a blogger? Give your head a shake, man.

[cindi]

He references this http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=6508827&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=41&Ses=2

http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=ea75bcfe-916d-4158-9cb6-bf0890ca9169

I guess if you believe Elections Canada, then you have to believe their robo call verdict right, or is E.C. only correct when you want it to be.

[waldo]

I guess if you believe Elections Canada, then you have to believe their robo call verdict right, or is E.C. only correct when you want it to be.

in your claimed voter fraud example, the one Elections Canada reviewed and decided upon, was there an element of persons refusing to cooperate and provide information to Elections Canada? As you say, is Elections Canada only wrong when you want it to be?

[cindi]

IMO the report makes it clear that there was no fraud or conspiracy, even if there is a belief that they ‘obstructed’ the investigation. There wasn't anything to find, it was all wind and hot air. It’s obvious that because the findings are not what some wanted to hear, they will continue with the allegations. Innuendo and allegations are what caused this in the first place (Guelph aside).

Conspiracy theorists have been in overdrive but the bottom line is that out of 40,000 complaints 96% came from one source complaining about what they had read in the papers. I suppose there will always be those who think they know more and some of the media will continue to push it, but it’s over. There was no grand scheme at all, but never mind carry on if it keeps you merry. It's opinion and I'm sticking with it.

http://www.ipolitics.ca/2014/04/24/robocalls-the-conspiracy-theory-goes-poof/

The Canadian Robocall Affair may yet be filed under ‘History’s Greatest Hysterias’, next to the Tanganyika Laughter Epidemic of 1962 and the Dancing Plague of Strasbourg, France, in 1518.

[ironstone]

Who are you going to believe, waldo? Elections Canada or a blogger? Give your head a shake, man.

Would you believe the blogger if I vouched for him?

[cindi]

Hey - this one is worth a read (am I allowed to post this) it is a pretty good synopsis and sure confirms that we should not believe everything we read in the media. It was pretty much an organized witch hunt. IMO and I'm sticking with it.

http://www.genuinewitty.com/2014/04/26/robocall-scandal-an-insiders-view-of-the-lefts-embarrassing-fraud-feat-leadnow/

[Keepitsimple]

Hey - this one is worth a read (am I allowed to post this) it is a pretty good synopsis and sure confirms that we should not believe everything we read in the media. It was pretty much an organized witch hunt. IMO and I'm sticking with it.

http://www.genuinewitty.com/2014/04/26/robocall-scandal-an-insiders-view-of-the-lefts-embarrassing-fraud-feat-leadnow/

Not only worth a read - they deserve the award that was given to Glen MacGregor and Stephen Maher. Instead of acclaims, those two clowns should be taken to task for their outrageous stories - fuelled by partisanship in the face of all sorts of evidence to the contrary. Apologies? Mea Culpas? A story about the dangers of journalists jumping to conclusions? Not one. Sickening.

Postmedia, Citizen coverage of robocalls wins award for public service journalism

Postmedia News and The Ottawa Citizen's coverage of the "robocalls" during the 2011 federal election has won the prestigious Michener Award for public service journalism.

Link: http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=d735dfd5-39e5-4edc-93c8-15a6e13c60db

Edited April 28, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[eyeball]

Pablum? Voter fraud here,

This sounds a lot more like candidate fraud than voter fraud. I can see getting two or three people together to counterfeit 240 vouchers and ballots in that time, but organizing 240 people and convincing them to commit fraud? I really doubt it.

[Bryan]

This sounds a lot more like candidate fraud than voter fraud. I can see getting two or three people together to counterfeit 240 vouchers and ballots in that time, but organizing 240 people and convincing them to commit fraud? I really doubt it.

Two sides of the same coin. It exploits the same hole in the security of our electoral process.

[PIK]

The left will never admit to being wrong, they never have and they never will. Everything ezra had to say on this is right and has been proven. The only way the left can win ,is by having the media do all the dirty work for them. Do you think they would admit to something that helps their sorry cause, just like the changes to EC. Vouching only helps the left, because the left cant stand losing and will do anything to win, even if it means destroying democracy in this country. And that is the same with all the foriegn money being shovelled into canada to destroy our oil business. Imagine letting the sauds and others tell us how to use or don't use our oil. The left is cuttting our throats to protect the middle east cartels.You should all be ashamed.

[Smallc]

'The left' isn't a single block of people.

[PIK]

'The left' isn't a single block of people.

More like blockheads.

[Michael Hardner]

More like blockheads.

That would be an insult, PIK. Please pick it up.

[On Guard for Thee]

The left will never admit to being wrong, they never have and they never will. Everything ezra had to say on this is right and has been proven. The only way the left can win ,is by having the media do all the dirty work for them. Do you think they would admit to something that helps their sorry cause, just like the changes to EC. Vouching only helps the left, because the left cant stand losing and will do anything to win, even if it means destroying democracy in this country. And that is the same with all the foriegn money being shovelled into canada to destroy our oil business. Imagine letting the sauds and others tell us how to use or don't use our oil. The left is cuttting our throats to protect the middle east cartels.You should all be ashamed.

You seem to be a little bit mixed up. Harper is trying to destroy democracy so the left can't vote. It worked last time, maybe not so much this time. They wouldn't try robocalls again would they?

[waldo]

They wouldn't try robocalls again would they?

it's most revealing to read the associated timing clause within the new Harper Conservative/Poiliviere bill provision related specifically to robocalls. Talk about agenda!

Reforms to the federal election law intended to crack down on illegal robocalls may not be put in place by the time Canadians next go to the polls.

The government’s contentious Fair Elections Act contains an obscure clause that places a six-month delay on the “robocall registry” of automated calling companies.

Depending on when the legislation receives royal assent, and the timing of the next election, the vote could be held with no more protection than exists now from the kind of misleading robocalls that marred the 2011 vote.

Most of the Fair Elections Act becomes law the moment the Governor General grants assent, after first winning approval from the House of Commons and Senate. But the coming-into-force clauses contain a specific phase-in period for sections dealing with automated calling companies.

These sections in the proposed law require calling companies to register with the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) and retain for one year a copy of the recording used in automated robocalls and scripts used for live calls.

The new provisions will take effect only on the day Parliament is dissolved and an election begins — as long as this occurs six months after the bill becomes law.

[waldo]

as an aside, who can't but chuckle at the tweet from Sona... originally sent in February from Sona to Poiliviere, now getting talked up the last couple of days: "If criminals don't register their long guns, what makes you think they'll register their robocalls?"

and yes, as mentioned a couple of times in recent posts, Sona is really touting his innocence in recent days... claiming to have been "thrown under the bus by senior officials within the Conservative party" who needed a scapegoat after the media storm erupted over robocalls made in Guelph. Gee, I wonder if his trial will get any "Media Party" coverage?

[On Guard for Thee]

I'm certainly looking forward to June 2 when Sona gets on the stand. I am a bit confused over where Andrew Prescott will fitr into the whole scheme.

[Smallc]

I wonder how many non scandals we can continue?

[waldo]

I wonder how many non scandals we can continue?

as I mentioned earlier, I took the liberty of creating/providing a summarized one-liner from the Elections Canada report "Summary Investigation Report on Robocalls":

"we found nuthin... cause we weren't allowed to find sumthin!"

as follows, more of the specifics behind my summarized one-liner... if you give it an objective read I trust you will agree that the investigative abilities of Elections Canada are quite limited, that its investigation was quite compromised and that it is/was under significant constraint.

2.5 Investigative Challenges

50. Before describing the investigatory steps taken, it is important to explain how aspects of the existing legal framework posed challenges during the course of this investigation. These challenges are more fully set out in the Chief Electoral Officer's March 2013 report, Preventing Deceptive Communications with Electors, to which reference was made earlier, but will be summarized here.

51. First, the lack of contractual information between local or national campaigns and telemarketers employed to call electors had a significant impact on the investigators' search for the source of the impugned calls. The challenge lies in the limited information that must be provided to Elections Canada under the Act. Currently, party expenses are grouped in broad categories and parties do not have to submit supporting documents. Candidates are required to submit supporting documents; however, the purpose for which a firm was retained, the phone numbers called, and the text of any calls made is not reported.

52. Second, the Criminal Code places certain limitations on the means of obtaining information and evidence. Investigations under the Act must meet applicable standards of acquiring evidence. The threshold to obtain a production order, described later in this report, means that any investigation must have made significant progress before a production order can be applied for and obtained. Another limitation is the inability to compel oral evidence from potential witnesses. In the present investigation, these limitations meant that, after a certain point, investigators had to rely on the voluntary participation of any concerned entity or person to obtain relevant information.

53. Third, there are no binding industry standards for the creation and retention of records by telephone service providers and telemarketing companies. Only a minority of the former keep records unless there is a financial interest in doing so (such as outstanding long distance charges), and the latter have inconsistent record keeping policies. In the present investigation, telephone service providers gave varied responses when asked for subscriber information. Some service providers were unwilling to provide information about incoming calls made to complainant subscribers. They cited a concern with third party privacy interests of the incoming callers under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act.

54. In addition to challenges posed by the existing legal framework, other challenges relate to the current state of technology. This includes, for example, the present inability to counter technological means that callers may use to prevent being traced or identified. The widespread use of Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) allows callers to enter any calling number they wish, greatly limiting, if not eliminating entirely, the ability to trace a VoIP call back to its actual source.

55. Finally, two other factors significantly exacerbated the difficulties encountered during the course of the investigation:

• The passage of time nine months or more from the reported events and the receipt of most complaints resulted in memory loss, data loss or both.
• The extensive media coverage, which seemingly acted as a catalyst for complainants to report, raised issues of potential interference with recall.

[On Guard for Thee]

I wonder how many non scandals we can continue?

I assume they will continue as long as the investigative bodies hands remain tied.

[Shady]

I wonder how many non scandals we can continue?

Good question. It's getting rather ridiculous. I kinda picture the perpetrators of these phony scandals as Captain Kirk from Wrath of Khan. Khan being of course, Stephen Harper to them. And as he slips through their fingers once again....

Edited April 30, 2014 by Shady