Islamification of Toronto?

[Scotty]

They could possibly be called out for a number of things that make them different from secular folks, but they're not. That's because they're established, and known here. The same respect is not accorded to Muslims, and it's not fair, that's all.

I assure you that if mobs of them start attacking people on the street they'll be called out for it.

[Scotty]

Actually your words...

It's not shocking to me at all with your admitted racial/ethnic bias that you impugne over a billion people as having a monolithic mindset...

Yeah, keep backpedalling, and now, so bloody cliche'd, start making wild, personal accusations.

You don't like what you said, that's sad. But you said it.

My wife has Muslim friends...Women...They're not locked away every 28 to 31 days...

I don't recall anyone ever saying they were 'locked away every month" but okay, if you think that distances you more from your own words.

And quit the very Professoresque selective quoting...

If people quoting you make you uncomfortable, well then maybe you should just leave. I doubt anyone here will miss you and your learned, mature discourse.

[Jack Weber]

You don't think that might be because of that/those group's particular behavior patterns?

Deep philosophical question for you....

Do you think God is the reason for religious sectarian violence or is it the machinations that Man puts on to different faiths that is the root of the problems?

[Jack Weber]

Yeah, keep backpedalling, and now, so bloody cliche'd, start making wild, personal accusations.

You don't like what you said, that's sad. But you said it.

I don't recall anyone ever saying they were 'locked away every month" but okay, if you think that distances you more from your own words.

If people quoting you make you uncomfortable, well then maybe you should just leave. I doubt anyone here will miss you and your learned, mature discourse.

Nope...

Your just a simpleminded bigot trying to "intellectualize" his bigotry (for the 2nd week in a row) and somehow,try to turn the tables on me..

Epic fail!!!

You are the one who has said that he is prejudiced against blcks because of what you have seen on TV and your limited interractions with black people...

And then you tried to make it sound like you were really brave by admitting these things!!!

Now you have made a massive claim that ALL Muslims are like the Taliban,and somehow through selective quoting,have tried to make it look like I believe the same thing as you do...

Again...For the 2nd week in a row...

Social ineptitude on a Ruthian scale!!!

The hole your digging is getting deeper...

Perhaps you could talk to your favourite haggas to get the right answers??

[eyeball]

You simply don't know much about me and my views...

You're one of those on the right...what more do I need to know?

[Oleg Bach]

It's not even about religion. It is about one culture attempting to dominate another that they consider inferiour. The Muslims that insisted on inserting prayer rooms and spaces into our public school system - Knew full well that Christianity had been ousted from our public school system - So what does this say about these particular Muslims in regards to them respecting us? A -person or group would not even consider taking from another what the other has given up by secularist forces - YET they take advangtage of liberality...to me it means that these Muslims simply do give a damn about us - When they originally suggested that Muslim prayer rooms be supplied on tax supported properties..they should have suggested that ALL religions have this right..not just theirs - It shows that there is no assimulation or good faith being projected towards their host nation - Canada.

[eyeball]

It's not even about religion. It is about one culture attempting to dominate another that they consider inferiour.

Yep, just like the right vs left thing.

[Oleg Bach]

Yep, just like the right vs left thing.

What ever happened to mutual intelligent co-operation. We have ancient advesarial systems in place in government and in religion...left vs. right - as if constant bloodless war or competition brings out the best - This is a great lie - It does not bring out the best..It allows the most un-civilized and ruthless to rise to the top. Left vs. right is like a person with one head - and two hands - both hand have a mind of their own and are constantly punching the head...until the head is dull and the hands are then useless as we see happening today.

[Scotty]

Nope...

Your just a simpleminded bigot trying

Sputter-sputter-sputter.

Keep on lying. It's not convincing anyone. Your words are pretty explicit. But by all means, just keep on lying. It's not like anything you have to say is taken seriously around here anyway.

You're barely worth the back of my hand, you little bitch.

[Oleg Bach]

Sputter-sputter-sputter.

Keep on lying. It's not convincing anyone. Your words are pretty explicit. But by all means, just keep on lying. It's not like anything you have to say is taken seriously around here anyway.

You're barely worth the back of my hand, you little bitch.

ooooh a bitch slap! Sounds like a guy in a wife beater t-shirt with pizza stains on it - trying to show the little lady who is boss.

[Shwa]

ooooh a bitch slap! Sounds like a guy in a wife beater t-shirt with pizza stains on it - trying to show the little lady who is boss.

My money is on Weber, TKO 30 seconds into the first round...

[Michael Hardner]

In any case, the quality of the thread is deteriorating as various posters stoop to insults. Let's see what the mods think.

[M.Dancer]

In any case, the quality of the thread is deteriorating as various posters stoop to insults. Let's see what the mods think.

Lets not and say we did

[Oleg Bach]

In any case, the quality of the thread is deteriorating as various posters stoop to insults. Let's see what the mods think.

Why do I feel like that little character in Coo coos' nest that cringes in the corner as Nurse Ratchet threatens to tell mum that hookers had visited the night before? Mike I do understand that you are a fair man - and a man of little or no prejudice. It might be better that you educated the ones personally that are causing the deterioration .....as they stoop to insult - explain to them that this site is not some common place on the net for kids to hurl personal insults back and forth - that it is as the sign says - one of Canadas Prime political educational sites... So you as a teacher need not turn the kids into the principle....

[Michael Hardner]

Mike I do understand that you are a fair man - and a man of little or no prejudice. It might be better that you educated the ones personally that are causing the deterioration.

Fair enough. Sometimes I take short cuts, but it might be better for me to message people directly. It's hard to walk the line between pleading people to pick up their game, and threatening to tell on them. I would rather they just posted better.

[Oleg Bach]

Fair enough. Sometimes I take short cuts, but it might be better for me to message people directly. It's hard to walk the line between pleading people to pick up their game, and threatening to tell on them. I would rather they just posted better.

There you said it. Personally I understand the issue of quality and I who should know better had been one of the sites greatest offenders...but you can teach an old dog new tricks. The younger ones with clearer and less cluttered minds than I should make a quick study - Having some class and maturity will be helpful - I hope that they are willing to learn - that civil discorse is the only way to go - and control of emotions is important in the achievement of professionalism - These young ones - will in the future run the nation. Thanks Michael..for showing grace and tolerance.

[Jack Weber]

Sputter-sputter-sputter.

Keep on lying. It's not convincing anyone. Your words are pretty explicit. But by all means, just keep on lying. It's not like anything you have to say is taken seriously around here anyway.

You're barely worth the back of my hand, you little bitch.

Let's see..

Let's pull out the old "Scotty Ineptitude" Tote Board and tally up the score...

1.Deliberate selective quoting...

2.Obfuscation...

3.Pseudosuperiority/Pseudointellectualism glossed over with verbose (if inarticulate) grandiosity and braggadoccio...

4.Name calling and threats of violence...

If did'nt know better,one would think you were in competition with The Professor with all the above...

Oh well...What can we expect from a two dimensional thinker who is a self admitted bigot?

(bonus points for the ironic nature of the nasty words seeing as this is coming AGAIN from a person who comes from an ethnic line that feels a skirt is a solid male fashion statement)

[Scotty]

Let's see..

Oh let's not. You're nothing but a bloody pest and you're boring the hell out of me.

[Shwa]

And on it goes. With a month before the beginning of school, will the protests increase? Should they or is this really a non-issue?

School board sees duelling demonstrations over Muslim prayers

About a hundred demonstrators congregated on the steps of the Toronto District School Board on Monday evening toting signs and shouting chants condemning the city’s public schools for allowing Muslim prayer groups.

“No Islam in our schools! Never, never, never!” shouted Ron Banerjee, director of the Canadian Hindu Advocacy.

The demonstration comes several weeks after a similar one was held at the same location with groups such as the Jewish Defense League and the Christian Heritage Party.

[Shakeyhands]

I'm starting to see this as a non issue, if only for logistical reasons. If any religious group wants to use a school facilility that seems fine. It's not being forced on any one that doesn't want to listen, participate or see it. And for the slow, it's not even close to playing prayers over the PA. As soon as they do that, the protests should resume.

[Oleg Bach]

It is right to protest against the idea that Toronto is up for grabs - that Canada in general has no real culture or religion of it's own - that the most aggressive new culture arriving on our shores - should in effect take over incrimentally - Get the Muslims out of our public schools who actually believe that they have the God given right to rule in a host nation that showed them the remnants of Christian kindness - Yes we are secularist when it comes to the public sphere - BUT our base values are derived from Christianity..whether we attend church or not. Islam is much to aggressive a movement to be left un-checked - WE have time to curb Islam and keep it from infringing on our freedoms - but that window of opportunity will not be open for ever. If our government does not act rapidly it will encourage more subtle aggression - that is under that auspice of political correctness - Islamification of any public facility is NOT correct.

[Oleg Bach]

I have spoken in the past to young Muslims and some of them are taught at home that they must displace all those that are not of the movement...this is the cold and dark side of Islam - as we embrace them and grant them more freedoms than we grant ourselves - eventually they will become to strong to control.

[dizzy]

I have spoken in the past to young Muslims and some of them are taught at home that they must displace all those that are not of the movement...this is the cold and dark side of Islam - as we embrace them and grant them more freedoms than we grant ourselves - eventually they will become to strong to control.

And I'm sure that you've also met christians who would like to turn our secularist nation into a theocracy.

I will fight alongside you against those who want to challenge any of the notions supporting our democracy. But you need focus, padawan. Extremism is the enemy, not islam.

[Rue]

Michael Hardner I was pleased no one got censored. Some times it is better

to let the steam blow itself out. Then one would hope people would cool off

as I did after another series of posts before I now return.

It is unfortunate but some readers do get personal and then when one responds

in the same manner act like victims. Neither side is right of course, we should

all stick to the issues and avoid the personal attacks but more often then not,

the person who initiates the personal attack then tries to portray themselves as

the victim on this forum.

To me there are no victims just 2 kinds of debaters, the ones who choose only to

discuss the issue, and the other who choose to get personal and attach themselves

and personal digs to their comments.

It is what it is. In any event I am glad you showed restraint. I always believe

self regulation is the best where possible but yes I do appreciate sometimes that

is not possible and don't get me wrong I am not a Libertarian-I do believe as

much as I may not like it that sometimes regulation is needed. Its just I don't like it.

That said and getting back to this thread the issue is not Islam per se, but religion and

to be specific whether ANY religion belongs in a public school.

I would argue as Army did earlier that NO religion belongs in school if it is genuinely a

public non denominational school. When I say NO religion I mean its not realistic to think

you can accommodate everyone and celebrate everyone's beliefs. Do it for Muslims, then

its only fair to do it for Christians, Jews, Hindus on and on.

The point is if people want religion in schools they should be prepared to go to a PRIVATE religious school and opt out of the public system.

Needless to say I am fundamentally opposed to the Catholic School Board. I think it flies against the principles of democracy and equal treatment of all citizens. It institutionalizes one form of religion into a public school system and gives them a right no other religion has.

Now for me again I state its not about a particular religion its about any religion. I make the same arguement if orthodox fundamentalist Muslims, Jews, Christians, or anyone else of any faith expects the public schools to accommodate their prayers.

Its not the place. You want to practice your religion do so on your own time in your own house of worship or private school.

This is not about being anti Muslim, anti Christian, anti Jewish. It is as army said a simple principle of maintaining neutrality and being consistent in treating everyone the same way. No one is saying don't be religious-what we are arguing is don't expect the state to fund certain ideologies and beliefs but not others.

Its a sticky subject because everyone now wants to use school curriculum to introduce particular political, religious and philosophical beliefs.

Its tricky on how to maintain neutrality.

So for me for example, if someone tries to twist what I said around to say I am censoring religious beliefs, I would simply state no I am not. If you want to teach a course on comparative religions, then do so. Teach a course on all the religions and atheism and agnosticism-just present all the religions equally in subject content.

But to say-here your group can use the school for its religious prayers is absurd. What next, and where does it end? Do we close the schools down quickly at sundown on Friday? Do we have Christian prayers followed by Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Zoroastrean, Wiccan, Oleg Bachianism, and so on? We'd have no time left in the day to teach.

There's a time and place for everything.

I also think it is an absolute crock to single out Scott for his opinions and accuse him of being a bigot. But then I fully expect that kind of attack from the very people who delivered it. They did not respond to his opinions, they simply attacked him as a person and assigned him motives of hatred.

Every last friggin one of us has biases and preferences.

Scott showed nothing different then anyone else in response to this topic. He is not the issue-whether religion belongs in a public school was the issue.

Scott I was going to pass on this thread but decided to speak up because I feel you were singled out inappropriately by people who ironically show the very intolerance they accuse you of.

I will say this too, no I do not myself get offended or all up in arms if I see a Christmas tree in a government building. I could care less. To me that is a cultural icon.

If its a cross, then personally no I don't sizzle and melt as some accuse we Jews of doing when we see crosses. The majority of people in Canada are Christians. Why would it bother me? O.k. sure Christians are bad dressers and can't dance and do ridiculous things like bowl, golf and engage in curling, but live and let live I say.

On a more serious note, what I would argue though is if you put up a cross in a government building or in a public school, then fully expect hundreds of others to want to put up their icons as well and so our walls will soon be innundated with crescents, stars of david, suns, rams' heads, and pictures of Oleg Bach climbing a mountain nude with a halo of course.

I remember with my children's public school the Muslims demanded no pork or other foods be allowed in the kitchen. To me that was b.s. They imposed their dietary rules on the rest of the students. I argued, if you don't want to eat pork, then bring your own food. They argued no you must serve us our way and to hell with everyone else.

There as a disconnect. The message was tolerate us but we won't tolerate anyone else.

So up on the walls went all kinds of Shia prophets during certain times of the year because the school was multi-cultural but the same Shia students would not partake in any one else's religious activities.

Enough with the double standards. You want to opt out of Canadian cultural traditions do so.You want to retain your own beliefs and resist assimilation and dress and speak differently and maintain belief in polygamy marriages, honour killings, beating of your wives, understand this-it will clash with existing Canadian laws and values and when it does, don't expect me to say, your religious rights under the Charter give you the right to beat your children, beat your wife, honour kill or have 4 or more wives.

No I do not have to accommodate that nor does anyone else.

You can't have it both ways. You can't come to Canada and demand people accommodate you but refuse to accommodate others. No it does not work that way and that unfortunately is the mixed message we are giving out.

That said, the vast majority of immigrants don't expect this treatment and those with such unreasonable beliefs are extremists no different then the extremist white supremacists who hide behind concern of white men's rights. They are a minority and a small one but they make a lot of noise while the silent majority says nothing.

One last thing, it is absolute bull shit as I read from one poster that white men are privileged and have power or are endangered. Both those call for assumptions based on idiotic baseless stereotypes of Oleg Bach looking humans.

Regards

Oleg Bachian disciple no.13

Edited August 10, 2011 by Rue

[Michael Hardner]

Michael Hardner I was pleased no one got censored. Some times it is better

to let the steam blow itself out. Then one would hope people would cool off

as I did after another series of posts before I now return.

Thanks Rue.

A lot to chew on in that post. To my mind, we have high levels of immigration and we need to do what we can to integrate. Perhaps separate schools could do this, but I'd rather accommodate in the public system, where possible.

That said, this is not an easy issue and I'm not 100% sold on either side.