Trudeau ignites storm

[Scotty]

are women being stoned in Canada?...

the issue is using acceptable diplomatic language at government levels not any xenophobic anti immigration beliefs you may hold...

Honor killing doesn't involve stoning. That's a Sharia punishment for adultery and extra-marital sex. Honor killing involves things like this

[Scotty]

primitive? there is no such thing actually...each society is equally developed in it's own way there is no universally "correct" cultural behaviour...

That's so much twaddle. First, saying 'each culture is developed in its own way' is meaningless. Some are simply more developed, i.e., more advanced than others. Second, the universally accepted cultural behaviour in Canada is OURS.

[Scotty]

I didnmt say you need to like it.

I neither like nor respect it - nor them.

It is how things are in some parts and some uber -religious areas. Not in Canada.

Well, if they are devoted to those practices, then let them stay there.

Well, you could say it, but you'll be sharing a cell with them, and wont that be fun.

Are you saying the use of deadly force is illegal when used to prevent murder?

[wyly]

Honor killing doesn't involve stoning. That's a Sharia punishment for adultery and extra-marital sex. Honor killing involves things like this

honor killing has no single required method...you're making shit up now...

[Scotty]

honor killing has no single required method...you're making shit up now...

You're the one who brought up stoning, sneering about how you didn't see any stonings going on in Canada.

Now you're whining because I responded to it?

[wyly]

That's so much twaddle. First, saying 'each culture is developed in its own way' is meaningless. Some are simply more developed, i.e., more advanced than others. Second, the universally accepted cultural behaviour in Canada is OURS.

moving the goalposts scotty...it's meaningless to you because you don't understand the concept...the issue was proper diplomatic language, insulting the culture which you're trying to influence does not promote change, it just pisses them off...

[Scotty]

moving the goalposts scotty...it's meaningless to you because you don't understand the concept.

The concept of cultural relativism isn't complicated, wyly, it's just intellectually and morally bankrupt.

the issue was proper diplomatic language, insulting the culture which you're trying to influence does not promote change, it just pisses them off...

Calling it barbaric wasn't insulting an entire culture, it was insulting the misogynistic sub-culture which DESERVED to be insulted, which deserved to be kicked the face, in fact. And I could not possibly care less if those people feel insulted. They'll get the message, and that's what matters.

[GWiz]

Ho hum, boring, more CON garbage that's meaningless... Keep up the GOOD WORK Justin...

See ya on some other thread... Maybe...

[guyser]

Are you saying the use of deadly force is illegal when used to prevent murder?

In most cases in this country?

Yes.

[M.Dancer]

moving the goalposts scotty...it's meaningless to you because you don't understand the concept...the issue was proper diplomatic language, insulting the culture which you're trying to influence does not promote change, it just pisses them off...

Diplomatic language is used for diplomacy. This is plain language used to convey a simple point. Barbarism is not wanted.

[scribblet]

Ho hum, boring, more CON garbage that's meaningless... Keep up the GOOD WORK Justin...

See ya on some other thread... Maybe...

If it's 'con' garbage, then I'm happy to subscribe to 'garbage' which has respect for women and considers honour killings, barbaric.... which they are.

[punked]

I get that the Liberals are the "party of the middle" and all but why do they have to take all the terrible left wing, and all the terrible right wing positions? Seriously?

Hurray War!

Yeppy Tax cuts!

Boooo asking immigrants to live by Canadian values

Boooo not giving everyone in Canada their own rink

I just don't get it. Is this how you define yourself now?

[Moonlight Graham]

This is such a non-story. Why does this trivial poop take up the main page on news websites when there are far more important matters going on?

[scribblet]

For the same reason the trivial poop about the CPC is on the websites et al everyone wants to spin their own story and frame the party they hate in the worst terms possible. LOL

[Jonsa]

This is such a non-story. Why does this trivial poop take up the main page on news websites when there are far more important matters going on?

I agree tempest in a teapot.

OTOH, the practice of honour killings IS barbaric. Its a perfectly acceptable and entirely accurate descriptor.

bar·bar·ic/bärˈbarik/Adjective

1. Savagely cruel; exceedingly brutal.

2. Primitive; unsophisticated.

If I call a white power pinhead a racist asshole, I could care less that he is offended, he's still a racist asshole.

[scribblet]

Where in 'ell does Trudeau get off in saying that 'conservatives are cynical if that isn't a pile of liberal doo doo... sheez

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/03/15/barbara-kay-trudeau-the-multiculturalist-walks-into-trap-of-his-own-making/

Taken aback by the kerfuffle, Mr. Trudeau backtracked. In an email to The Globe and Mail, he wrote: “Perhaps I got tangled in semantic weeds in my comments, particularly in view of the Conservatives’ cynicism on these issues. I want to make clear that I think the acts described are heinous, barbaric acts that are totally unacceptable in our society.”

I’m puzzled by Trudeau’s logic. Both Justin Trudeau and the Conservatives believe that honour killings are “barbaric.” But according to Mr. Trudeau, the Conservatives’ views on immigration are “cynical.” Therefore, actually identifying honour-motivated crimes as “barbaric” in an official document is unacceptable to people like Liberals, who are not cynical about immigration, and who are therefore made uncomfortable by accurate adjectives pointing to unpleasant realities.

Mr. Trudeau’s shambolic rhetorical dilemma is a very good illustration of the corner into which committed multiculturalists have painted themselves. Multiculturalism depends on a belief that all cultures are equal. To criticize a specific cultural practice is to imply that our culture is superior to others in certain respects, which is multicultural thought crime.

[Mr.Canada]

culture is culture, killing is killing, why mix up the two?

Because killing is part of the Islamic culture, as in honor killing.

[M.Dancer]

Because killing is part of the Islamic culture, as in honor killing.

You mean like easter, st valentines day and village idiots are in ours?

[DogOnPorch]

Trudeau as much as it's disturbs the unsophisticated masses was correct...we need to be culturally sensitive, we may not agree with another cultures practices but we still have to respect their beliefs regardless how abhorrent they are to us...as much as we all agree it's barbaric when you're trying to influence the practices of another culture calling them barbaric is counter productive...if you're negotiating a car purchase calling the salesman a thieving arsehole even if true is going to gain you what?...trudeau's error was saying something that most people will not comprehend...

Ummm...no we do not.

[betsy]

All parties agree that "barbaric" is an appropriate term to use. Ignatieff further said that there is no "honor" in honor-killings.

[BubberMiley]

Once again, betsy is right. Trudeau was wrong. Honour killings are, indeed, barbaric.

And spelling "honour" without the 'u' is just uncivilized.

[M.Dancer]

And spelling "honour" without the 'u' is just uncivilized.

Hear Hear!

[DogOnPorch]

Hear Hear!

Except when they spell it Pearl Harbour...then boooooooooo.

[kimmy]

*What* culture is being being offended here?

What culture doesn't hold "honor killings" to be barbaric?

I know it's not Muslims we're talking about, because every single time there has been a thread about "honor killings" committed by Muslims, our resident Muslim Defense League has sprung into action to explain that "honor killing" is as abhorrent to Muslims as it is to the rest of us, and that those very very rare Muslims who have committed "honor killings" are not representative of Muslims, they're just a tiny tiny minority of... well, barbarians. In fact, I am sure that our resident Muslim Defense League will be along any moment to set you guys straight and explain that Muslims hold "honor killing" to be just as barbaric as the rest of us.

So ... which culture is the description "barbaric" actually offensive to?

Let's name names. Let's find out which culture it actually is where "honor killing" is considered an actual part of the culture, rather than a crime committed by some small minority within that group.

I'm willing to bet that nobody here can actually name such a culture.

(But if there actually is one, then let's not accept immigrants from there.)

-k

[William Ashley]

THIS IS JUST STUPID TRUDEAU IS RIGHT!!!

ROMANS HAD HONOUR KILLINGS TOO!

ALTHOUGH MUSLIMS WOULD LIKELY BE BARBARIANS... THE PRACTICE CANNOT BE BARBARIC BECAUSE ROMANS DID IT.

THE GREEKS HAD HONOURABLE SUICIDE.. SO DO THE JAPANESE. AS DO INDIANS. FOR THAT MATTER MOST OF THE ANCIENT AND NOT SO ANCIENT WORLD INTO THE MODERN PERIOD HAD THESE PRACTICES. THEY HAD DUELS UP UNTIL THE 1900's in Canada and witch burnings.

IT IS UNACCEPTABLE IN CANADA.... NOT A BARBARIC PRACTICE

the author only demonstrates themselves to be uneducated to say it is barbaric.

There is just a lot of misrepresentation in the West on what honour killings actually are. A lot of false information.

Male Rapists are killed.

People who however have sex out of wedlock with familail permission are considered a form of rapist.

This system of honour in the familial and the vestigality of women is very tradition and HIGHLY civilized.

It is actually the west that is following the ways of Sodom and Gomorrah, and "savage"

With sexual promescuity and acceptance of non marital sex and adultary as OK in Canada.

That is why rape happens more frequently in Canada, hell a judge didn't even sentence a rapist to jail for rape. Personally Canada's position is far more barbaric.

Perhaps instead it could say RAPE IS UNACCEPTABLE IN CANADA! Females are encourage to protect themselves stay with freinds and arm them selves with self defence utensils.

OR HONOUR KILLINGS ARE MURDER IN CANADA.

all this PC bs... they are being total bafoons and ingorant jerks in getting this offensive war propaganda into immigration manuals. It makes Canada look like a bunch of moronic hicks.

The problem is you are thinking in your head like it is the only head around, it isn't people have different values, it doesn't make the values wrong in the context of another soceity.

It is the idea behind the act, not the act itself.

The substance or nature of an act and the underlying meaning is what is really occuring. The west has a problem with over materializing meaning to very physical concepts that tie into mostly atheist and thus "foundationless" concepts. That are tied into human emotions that are not normalized. Normalization is a form of totalitarianism - and in that respect I can say very much that any form of totalitarianism in western culture has failed to provide for universal standards of morality and goodness. Especially on the basis of US or them, when acts not acceptable within a society are perpetuated on those who are not part of that society, or upon minority groups within that society.

Since the west has failed to provide a working standard of duty on humanitarian grounds I find it hard pressed that those same concepts are being pushed in literature, attacking a practice, rather than representing and communicating that there is a difference conception of that practice in Canada. the concept of barbarism to a civilized society is not one that is rational to perpetuate, quite contrarily it is unneeded agression at a civlized society that has a different identity to an act. It is unfortunate such blind and self absorbed totalitarian people are writing such things. They remaking Islam into the new Jewdom, on the wings of the 4th.

Why not just make being a Muslim punishable by death and speed up to the objective.

It fills me with a sense of unease and disgust to see this form of deteriation in the human cooperative condition that such hate speach is perpetuated in the very annals of the Harper Government.

Edited March 16, 2011 by William Ashley