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Everything posted by Jonsa

  1. Nobody can justify killing innocents. Israel's responses often kill civilians not because the deliberately target them, but because they are in the way. That or their intelligence was faulty. And, if there weren't terrorist attacks, there wouldnt be israeli response, would there?
  2. From 2007 about $2 billion a year in foreign aid to the PA. Last year $1.2 and this year less than a $1 billion with a view to eliminating aid by 2013. Budget for 2011 in the PA, 3.7 Billion. UNWRA budget $568 million. Hamas 2010 budget was $540 million of which $60 million was from internal revenues and the balance from "foreign donors. Interesting that Gazans certainly have less government than the wb. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011%5C02%5C05%5Cstory_5-2-2011_pg4_4 The WB experienced 9% growth last year. Seems a strategy of co-operation and compromise while still being able to criticize Israeli policy is working for the PA. Meanwhile, Hamas is totally dependent on Iran, Saudis, Syria et.al. to retain power and provide minimal services. Wonder which strategy is more effective and beneficial to the palestinian people, let alone to the goal of statehood.
  3. Rather poor science. we don't share 98 or 99 % of our DNA with chimps. And certainly no where close to 93% with monkeys. " show that 24% of the chimpanzee genome does not align with the human genome. There are 3% further alignment gaps, 1.23% SNP differences, and 2.7% copy number variations totaling at least 30% differences between chimpanzee and Homo sapiens genomes" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee_genome_project
  4. The un general assembly is a feel good kaffeklatch of absolutely no authority. Its resolutions are totally politicized by voting blocs and always anti-Israeli when on that subject which seems to be with abnormal frequency. It is nothing more than a venue for countries to behave hyocritically self righteously about other countries. its a shame really, but when you can have a country like Bahamas have the same power (vote) as China its obvious why the GA has no teeth and can't be taken seriously.
  5. Well, It would appear as though I don't know as much as I thought I did. I shall do some further research in this area before opening my mouth about it again. As for jew baiting...... a tad hypersensitive aren't you? a not uncommon condition but I only "bait" people based on my opinion of them or their comments as individuals with the exception of Islamists, white power pinheads and neo nazis. I don't think you fall into any of those categories.
  6. Okay, it doesn't constitute evidence. However Goldstone himself uses the same translation. I am unaware that there was an alternative translation that differs from what it says in his report and obviously neither was he. Point taken. So, he didn't investigate the claim, that doesn't mean it wasn't true. However, one would reasonably conclude that if it was true there would be some evidence that Israel would be anxious to disclose. I shall concede that it is unsubstantiated. Para 467 either is contradicting the last sentence of 466 or is refering to other claims. I'm not sure what a "threshold of effectiveness" is. He is basically criticizing Israel for making an attempt to at least minimize civilian casualites in a time of war. His conclusion seems to raise the bar for Israel beyond any other country in any other war. He did at least retract his assertion that Israel deliberately targetted civilians. As an aside, are you not somewhat leery of his methodology? His ability to really only investigate one side of this conflict. Do you think that it is possible that reliance on palestinian input might skew the results. I think basic human nature would motivate some to embellish or lie if it put the enemy that just blew up your house in the worst possible light, n'est-ce pas? I don't doubt that there violations by the IDF, but I also would allow for a differing interpretation of events if you were either the shooter or the target.
  7. Apparently my first response to you suggesting you indulge in self gratification and then my second response to please demonstrate affection for my buttocks is a blatant insult according Hardner and my posts disappeared. I consider your post to be a deliberate personal insult.
  8. How you could arrive at such a conclusion given what I posted is beyond me. I suppose you think you are clever. Apparently I am not allowed by forum rules to respond as this deliberate BLATANT INSULT deserves. So I'll just sweetly say, please kiss my ass.
  9. I am aware goldstone did not conclude that hamas used civilians as human shields. He concluded that there was no evidence available to him. considering his methodology one would have been shocked as shit if he did come up with such evidence. Hamas MP Fathi Hammad: We Used Women and Children as Human http://blog.camera.org/archives/HumanShields.jpg I agree with you that it shouldnt be misrepresented. Like Hamas uses civilians as human shields. You are aware that during Cast Lead, Hamas headquartered in the basement of a hospital aren't you? True, but even in Cast Lead the IDF notified residents. I have read portions of the goldstone report. I am disturbed by his methodology and the inability to investigate many of claims he included in his conclusions. that being said, I am positive that many of the incidents described actually occured, its the interpretative conclusions I have some reservations about.
  10. Russia and America were allies in WW2. Did that make America communist?
  11. the IDF does not indiscriminantly kill civilians. If it did, how do you explain that "only" 1400 civilians were killed in Cast Lead? And a significant number of those civilian deaths were a direct result of Hamas' strategy of human shields. Hamas deliberately and indiscriminantly targets Israeli civilians as proven by their constant firing of unguided rockets and mortars into civilian areas. The IDF, otoh, takes great pains to minimize civilian casualities. Hell they even spent two days warning the citizens of Jenin to get out of dodge before they entered. Some 11,000 took the hint before hostilities started.
  12. The Mufti was NOT a Nazi. Yes, he certainly wanted to exterminate the jews. Now, if you think for one second he had any influence on the final solution you are just dumb. the Mufti represented the "sand people", higher than jews in their warped racist scale, but far far below the german ideal. The nazis and the mufti were allies of convenience. But first and foremost as a Muslim, he wanted to get rid of the British occupiers of muslim land. the ummah is an important islamic concept. they are still whining about losing andalusia 600 years ago. For you not to understand this concept indicates an ignorance of your enemy. I won't bother ridiculing your simplistic and narrow interpretation of history and the motivation of its players. I don't know how much time you have spent reading history, but you might want to move out of the childrens section some time.
  13. So if you were in charge what kind a settlement would you negotiate? would you withdraw from the minor settlements and the jordan valley? would you pay compensation in lieu of right of return to Israel proper? would you "share" jerusalem? would you allow free passage between WB to Gaza? would you allow sovereign rights to the nation of Palestine? In your world, what would a peaceful, meaningful, and sustainable agreement look like?
  14. So a nut burns a Koran and people thousands of miles away die. Seems President Karzai uses for his own political gain and incites the radicals with calls to arrest the nutjob in America. Radical imans incite their congragations and lookie there. A few hundred whack jobs decide to protest. The Taliban view this as an outstanding opportunity. Hiding within the demonstrations they launch a heinous terrorist attack on a UN compound. The only "religious" aspect of this is that the "faith" of some really gullible and ignorant afghanis is exploited by politicians and terrorists. The taliban achieve their goals. Terrorize the UN. Demonstrate to the world the "power of Islam" and create even more Islamophobia in the west, and fan the flames of hatred in the Islamic world towards the kafrs. the preacher is just as ignorant as the afghani muslims that protested. The UN moron who blames the preacher is just as ignorant as the preacher and the afghani muslims. The media is just as ignorant as the preacher, the afghani muslims and the UN moron thinking that these murders had anything to do with burning a book. Karzai isn't ignorant, he just a sleazy corrput politician who got what he wanted - "look at me, I'm no puppet of the great satan" and a US general has to apologize to the afghani people for a nutjob american's actions condoned by no one. The taliban are ignorant scumbags, but they got what they wanted and judging from the posts on this thread, it seems Islamophobia gets a little more entrenched.
  15. Like I said before. I don't give a shit about all that nazi garbage. It provides an excellent history lesson, but is relevant in today's world only as a warning of the evil that man can achieve - "Never Again". I am well aware that in those days I would have been a candidate for transportation.
  16. Really? what would you say are the other components of being Jewish?
  17. In the end, the fact that they knew they were going to kill innocent children didn't deter them in the slightest. So I'll revise my statement. They may or may not have given a shit, but they killed those kids. The intent was to kill everyone in the building, to ensure that they killed the target. A 1 ton bomb is indiscriminant. One doesn't have regrets if they intended an action? NONSENSE. Talk to soldiers returning from combat. They intended to kill the enemy and some have regrets and nightmares for the rest of their lives. I have never once said that Israel deliberately targets civilians. I claim that incidents like the one we are discussing demonstrates that Israel is totally prepared to kill any number of civilians to kill their designated target. Like just about every other nation in a war.
  18. Well, you can continue to claim that Gaza isn't occupied. However, according to the hague and Geneva conventions and the case law surrounding them, Gaza remains occupied. You know Israel is a signatory of those conventions and that teh Israeli Supreme court has stated that the precepts of international law are intrinsic in the laws of Israel. Hmmmm. A "soft" occupation. Like the palestinians should consider themselves lucky Israel is such a magnanimous occupier. I'm mean really why on earth would these ungrateful wretches want liberty and freedom and the right to self determination. Granted they aren't going about trying to achieve those human rights with the best strategy, but to arrogantly excuse occupation by calling it "soft" is churlish. Almost exclusively give their vote to who? Surely you aren't complaining that arab citizens vote for parties that represent their interests? Are you trying to tell me that Hadash is anti-semitic and anti-zionist - they're socialists and include both jews and arabs? Or is the fact that the United Arab List is so vocal about equal rights for arab Israeli citizens making them both anti-semitic and anti-zoinist? Or perhaps Ta'al who was so vehemently against Operation Cast lead and who had to get the Supreme Court to overturn the knesset's ban? Or perhaps Balad, who fights hard for equality for arab citizens? In 2009 54% of the arab population voted or roughly 525,000 ballots. The arab parties garnered roughly 310,000 votes, Who did the other 215,000 arabs exclusively vote for? There's a massive amount of hostility in virtually every minority group who do not have equal rights, equal opportunity or equal access to services, (or at least the perception of equal rights) in their own country. Here its the first nations. Take your pick of blacks or hispanics in american ghettos. Wouldn't want to be a turk in Germany. I acknowledge that the most vocal anti-semitism arises from the muslim world. anyone that has followed the conflict is well aware of the role that children play in support the gangs of terrorist thugs that dominate palestinian nieghbourhoods. Why are children not tried in adult court? A child is easily influenced. given the culture, they might even look up to the thugs who have a certain stature in the community, they cannot determine the consequences of their actions and certainly are not equiped to actually make political determinations. Infants and toddlers and pre-adolescents are innocent, period. Well, it would appear as though your reluctance to describe the Israeli government as "right wing" is not shared by the ruling party of this coalition who proudly pronounce themselves to be right wing. I guess you missed that whole Likud Kadima split as Sharon wanted to take a more centerist position. You can dismiss the fact that the vast majority of Israelis AND Palestinians consider the settlements to be a core issue - you are entitled to your opinion. I have not attempted to justify arab actions against the zionist jews prior to 48 nor the subsequent wars and political maneouverings. The pogroms of the mandate were a direct result of zionist influx into palestine and their loudly stated intentions of creating the nation of Israel. Kinda pisses off the native population, wot? Those arab/muslim countries' pogroms occurred after 48 and were a direct result of the "occupation" of palestine by Israel. (tht is the establishment of Israel itself). I acknowledge that all Islamist groups wish to see the destruction of Israel or as they so euphemistically state "the liberation of all of historic palestine". However, it is my opinion that when the day comes that a palestinian nation is established in peaceful co-existence with Israel, the belligerence of the other arab/muslim countries will be vastly reduced. Of course, If nutbar regimes like Iran still exist, it won't make any difference to them.
  19. Nobody argues about being placed in an us or them position. this wasn't one of those instances. don't you get that? Nobody is suggesting that Israel allows terrorists to operate with impunity. don't you get that? And it says a lot about you that you'd make the decision a hundred times over to deliberately bomb innocent children to kill one bad guy, especially when there are so many other proven ways of efficiently eliminating said bad guy. (I particularly liked the exploding cell phone myself).
  20. They are not stupid and neither are you. Tell me, what do you think the outcome of dropping a 1 ton bomb on a 4 story concrete structure that houses three or four families will be? Now, consider dropping the bomb at 2 in the morning? Now tell me what immediate conclusions you come to wrt the results? the didn't give a shit because they did it. They knew they were going to kill families, but their desire to kill a bad guy was greater than any moral repugnance to kill babies. Tell me how you can kill only the target with a 1 ton bomb when the target is sleeping in an apartment building in the middle of the night. The intent was to kill everyone in the apartment building to ensure that the target was killed. I agree that in an active fire fight lobbing a grenade into a house where the shooters are that kills some innocent civilians huddled in the house, there was no intent to kill the civilians. that isn't the case with this attack.
  21. Ahhhhh, so when applied to you its infintile, but when you do it, its okay? Lesson 1. It wasn't unfair. You definitely implied I was anti-semitic twice. that crack about how we both know why I said "european jews".
  22. read the Geneva conventions wrt to resistance fighters in occupied territory.
  23. \ Don't play stupid. No they didn't intend to kill everyone in the four or five unit apartment building by dropping a 1 ton bomb on it in the early morning hours. Who in their right mind could possibly think that normal people and small children would be in their beds at that time? Who could have known what a 1 ton bomb would have done to a 4 story concrete building? You claim you know all about these attacks, but from your responses it appears as though you either don't know anything about them, or you are being disingenuous hoping to some how defend the indefensible.
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