'Florida'

[Boges]

The question is, who started the fight. Only Zimmerman and a dead guy knows, therefore you get a "Not Guilty" verdict.

[Black Dog]

That's different from your previous post. You've said two different things.

So Zimmerman didn't follow and confront Martin? They just happened to pass each other in the street maybe? Please: enlighten me.

[Shady]

So Zimmerman didn't follow and confront Martin? They just happened to pass each other in the street maybe? Please: enlighten me.

It's much more complex than what you're acknowledging. Martin left, and came back 4 minutes later to confront Zimmerman. Broke his nose, and got on top of Mr. Zimmerman. Those are facts. Martin didn't have a single scratch on him before the gun shot.

[Black Dog]

It's much more complex than what you're acknowledging. Martin left, and came back 4 minutes later to confront Zimmerman. Broke his nose, and got on top of Mr. Zimmerman. Those are facts. Martin didn't have a single scratch on him before the gun shot.

That's not a fact. That's Zimmerman's story.

[Shady]

That's not a fact. That's Zimmerman's story.

Nope. It's fact. Martin came back 4 minutes later. The prosecution even conceded that. They also conceded that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.

[Black Dog]

Nope. It's fact. Martin came back 4 minutes later.

link.

The prosecution even conceded that.

Nope:

Assistant state attorney Bernie de la Rionda was visibly tense as he commented on the case. “Who was following who? Isn’t that what this case boils down to?” he said. “I respect the jury’s verdict, but really what it boils down to is, a kid minding his own business being followed by a stranger, and I would submit that’s when it started.”

link

They also conceded that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.

Who said otherwise?

Edited July 16, 2013 by Black Dog

[Shady]

I'm not going to relitigate the case. The prosecution did a bad job, and had a high burden to meet. The jury, logically found some reasonable doubt. Case closed.

[Shady]

http://www.ibtimes.com/george-zimmerman-trial-closing-arguments-was-mark-omaras-4-minute-pause-effective-trayvon-martin

He had more than enough time to get home after he said he was being followed. Why didn't he? Because he turned around and decided to confront his followed. Breaking his followers nose, mounting him on the ground and pushing his head back against the sidewalk.

[Guest American Woman]

I think the comments by the juror who is speaking out make the decision rather questionable. She said that initially the jury was split, with two wanting a manslaughter conviction and a third wanting guilty for second degree. She also said that she thinks Zimmerman went above and beyond acceptable action in his decision to ignore the police and confront Martin, so that right there makes me wonder about the not guilty of anything verdict, though I don't think race played into the verdict at all. She also said that she thinks both were responsible for being in the situation, that she thinks both could have walked away. Still, only one, apparently, was getting directives from the police, and that would be Zimmerman - who chose to ignore their advice.

[Shady]

Very true that both were responsible for the incident. However, Zimmerman got advice from the dispatcher , not technically police.

[Black Dog]

I'm not going to relitigate the case. The prosecution did a bad job, and had a high burden to meet. The jury, logically found some reasonable doubt. Case closed.

That's a helluva walkback there Shady.

He had more than enough time to get home after he said he was being followed. Why didn't he? Because he turned around and decided to confront his followed. Breaking his followers nose, mounting him on the ground and pushing his head back against the sidewalk.

So you concede Martin was being followed by Zimmerman. Good. Now, why didn't Martin go home? Don't know, maybe he didn't want the other guy knowing where he lived? Isn't the better question "why did Zimmerman get out of his car and start following a 17 year old kid?"

Either way, what actually happened in those four minutes is unknown to anyone but the shooter and the dead kid. The jury believed the defence's theory. However, that does not elevate it to the status of "fact".

Edited July 16, 2013 by Black Dog

[Guest American Woman]

Very true that both were responsible for the incident. However, Zimmerman got advice from the dispatcher , not technically police.

True, it was a police dispatcher, not a police officer, who said not to confront Martin - that police were on the way. He chose to ignore that advice, which he had no reason to do, really. I personally, not having heard the testimony of the jury, of course, believe he should have been found guilty of manslaughter. That two jurors also originally thought so while one thought he should be guilty of second degree murder confirms it in my mind. Edited July 16, 2013 by American Woman

[Icebound]

removed

Edited July 16, 2013 by Icebound

[Guest American Woman]

Actually, I think that is not EXACTLY what she said.

My information is that She was more like: "George" did this and that , while "that kid" was doing so and so....

I think that pretty well tells us to whom she had trouble relating.

Her "most controversial quotes" boggle the mind.

On Zimmerman's intentions: "I think George Zimmerman is a man whose heart was in the right place, but just got displaced by the vandalism in the neighborhoods and wanting to catch these people so badly that he went above and beyond what he really should have done."

On Zimmerman being armed: "I think he has every right to carry a gun."

On her view of the incident: "I think the roles changed. I think George got in a little bit too deep, which he shouldn't have been there. But Trayvon [Martin] decided that he wasn't going to let him scare him, and I think Trayvon got mad and attacked him."

On whether she finds Zimmerman guilty: "I think he's guilty of not using good judgment."

On feeling emotional about the case: "I feel sorry for both of them. I feel sorry for Trayvon and the situation he was in, and I feel sorry for George for the situation he got himself in."

On witness Rachel Jeantel: "[i think she] felt inadequate toward everyone because of her education and her communication skills. I just felt sadness for her."

On if she'd like Zimmerman to be her neighborhood watch: "If he didn't go too far . . . He just didn't stop at the limitations he should have stopped at."

As I've said, if Martin were my child, I would not feel as if justice had been served; it's my belief that Zimmerman should have been found guilty of manslaughter, and I wonder why the three jurors who thought he was guilty of manslaughter or second degree murder changed their minds.

[Shady]

I somewhat agree. In my opinion it's part manslaughter part self defense. I think he should have been sentenced to at least a few years in prison. But the prosecution set its sights too high to begin with.

[Guest American Woman]

I somewhat agree. In my opinion it's part manslaughter part self defense. I think he should have been sentenced to at least a few years in prison. But the prosecution set its sights too high to begin with.

He could have been found guilty of manslaughter.

[Shady]

He could have been found guilty of manslaughter.

Only if there was absolute no reasonable doubt in terms of the way the prosecution says things happened. I think 15 years in prison is too severe a punishment. Before any shot from any gun, his nose was broken, and there was somebody on top of him, slamming his head against the side walk. Excuse him for not being able to aim for just an arm or leg. Edited July 16, 2013 by Shady

[Guest American Woman]

Only if there was absolute no reasonable doubt in terms of the way the prosecution says things happened. I think 15 years in prison is too severe a punishment. Before any shit from any gun, his nose was broken, and there was somebody on top of him, slamming his head against the side walk. Excuse him for not being able to aim for just an arm or leg.

So what happened to: "I think he should have been sentenced to at least a few years in prison?"

Some of what you speak of is Zimmerman's testimony, not fact. It's Zimmerman's claim that his head was being "slammed against the sidewalk." But bottom line, he could have heeded the dispatcher's advice. Had he done that, there would have been no fight, there would have been no shooting, there would have been no death. He should be held accountable for his decisions, his actions. He should hold some responsibility for the chain of events as they occurred.

[-TSS-]

The media really whipped up hysteria and lynch-mentality in a case which was already sensitive enough. Not very responsible, one must say. They seem to enjoy provoking confrontation.

[Shady]

The media really whipped up hysteria and lynch-mentality in a case which was already sensitive enough. Not very responsible, one must say. They seem to enjoy provoking confrontation.

Yep. The media was as irresponsible as I've ever seen in this case. They essentially convicted Zimmerman several months ago, and made everyone in the public believe that his conviction was just a formality. When the case against him was very complex, as was the situation between him and Trayvon Martin.

[Guest American Woman]

Yep. The media was as irresponsible as I've ever seen in this case. They essentially convicted Zimmerman several months ago, and made everyone in the public believe that his conviction was just a formality. When the case against him was very complex, as was the situation between him and Trayvon Martin.

I didn't feel that way at all about how this was portrayed in the media. I was all but sure Zimmerman would be found not guilty.

Edited to add: I'm thinking that TSS is referring to media coverage after the verdict was given?

Edited July 16, 2013 by American Woman

[dre]

If you harras and stalk random pedestrians for no reason at all, you deserve to get your nose smashed in. You shouldnt be able to use self defense as a defense when you are the one that started the altercation.

Hell get whats coming to him one way or the other, and when he does Ill laugh.

Edited July 16, 2013 by dre

[scribblet]

The prosecutor should be charged for withholding evidence and so on. I listened to Dershowitz tonight and a video clip. There has been a real mess up with this and the media hasn't helped. Zimmerman was arrested and taken away in handcuffs at the time but released. The prosecutor has withheld evidence and has now raised expectations so high that even if convicted of a much lesser charge we can expect violence and riots. No reasonable jury would convict him based on this evidence and Florida law, but another problem of course is finding a reasonable jury.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/drop-george-zimmerman-murder-charge-article-1.1080161

I was right. Not only that, the prosecution withheld evidence again as per the testimony of the IT guy they fired. (for testifying).

[Shady]

If you harras and stalk random pedestrians for no reason at all, you deserve to get your nose smashed in. You shouldnt be able to use self defense as a defense when you are the one that started the altercation.

Hell get whats coming to him one way or the other, and when he does Ill laugh.

How'd that ridiculous theory work out for Trayvon Martin?

[scribblet]

I didn't feel that way at all about how this was portrayed in the media. I was all but sure Zimmerman would be found not guilty.

Edited to add: I'm thinking that TSS is referring to media coverage after the verdict was given?

The media has a lot to answer for including NBC who ran that edited tape intended to show Zimmerman as racist. He is suing them over that one. Don't forget they also ran pictures of Martin when he was 12, not as he looked then.

The prosecution shouldn't have put the teenage girl on the stand without coaching her first as the juror said they didn't find her credible. If anyone saw her interview with Piers Morgan you wouldn't have thought it was the same person.

The juror in the interview said they believed that Martin threw the first punch and that it was Zimmerman's voice on the tape so under Florida's self defense laws (not the Stand Your Ground) there was enough reasonable doubt to acquit. The jury understood and got it right. Now maybe there will be changes in the law, who knows.

Now that race baiter Al Sharpton is muckraking and stirring the pot.