1st official gov evidence of Israel possessing nukes revealed

[eyeball]

I don't concur. The weight of evidence speaks louder than a few bad apples. The West may not be perfect, but is a force for good, for peace and for freedom.

The West's imperfections seem to be grotesque enough I'm afraid to have done the same irreparable damage that a few thoroughly rotten apples would.

Why is the betrayal of trust and violation of moral authority when a priest diddles a child all the more heinous than when a run of the mill pervert does it?

The same reason it's all the more heinous when the West betrays the very same principles it's advancing and act's no better than it's enemies.

A little bit of bad will goes a lot farther towards undoing a lot of good will than the other way around. It just takes all that much more good will to regain people's trust.

[GostHacked]

I think with their oil money, Saudi Arabia is hardly being 'propped-up' by the West's "rightists".

http://nas.ucdavis.edu/Forbes/rightwing_terror_part1.html

Little notice has been taken of the fact that the terrorist attack of September 11 was apparently carried out by right-wing fanatics representing an ultra-conservative, reactionary, and patriarchal ideology. If we are to believe the information that we are receiving from the U.S. government, the attackers were of Muslim background belonging to extremely "fundamentalist" factions with ties to extremist groups in the Islamic world.

If the attackers had been left-wingers that fact would have received great attention in the press. But the right-wing ideology of the terrorists has received little analysis, perhaps because it bears too close a resemblance to some fundamentalist and reactionary movements within the Christian and Jewish (Israeli) worlds; or perhaps because it too closely resembles the ideologies of a number of undemocratic states which the United States supports (such as Saudi Arabia and other Arabian Gulf kingdoms).

Plus, Saudi Arabia, a country I detest, wasn't involved in either the 6 Day War or Yom Kippur. How does this relate to Israel?

It's not related to Israel (not that I was trying anyways) You just wanted an example of this.

Eyball had wrote

eyeball: The only contradiction here is the fact that some of the worst of the despotic, corrupt and patriarchal countries in the ME are or have been supported by Western Rightists.

[M.Dancer]

http://nas.ucdavis.edu/Forbes/rightwing_terror_part1.html

Little notice has been taken of the fact that the terrorist attack of September 11 was apparently carried out by right-wing fanatics representing an ultra-conservative, reactionary, and patriarchal ideology.

One is forced to wonder what planet this author has been living on....little notice?

[dre]

You seem believe that Israel has expansionist plans and menaces her neighbors which is nonsense. Also, the odd notion that everyone should have nukes to level the playing field is beyond dangerous.

You seem believe that Israel has expansionist plans and menaces her neighbors which is nonsense.

What in the ever loving fuck are you talking about? Israel has almost doubled its size through military occupation, and has openly declared that it will permanently keep part of that land.

And Israel IS a menace to its neighbors. They threatened to bomb Lebanon a few years ago for pumping water out of their own lake LOL.

In any case, I dont really care if Israel has nukes, nor Iran for that matter.

[myata]

One is forced to wonder what planet this author has been living on....little notice?

Could it be the same with this one (is it really so hard to recognise one's own countryman):

Iraq....Soviet Client

Yemen...Soviet Client

Jordan..Soviet Client...till beaten

...

Iran...western ally...most liberal of the mid east nations excluding israel...till the islamic nuts took over

[DogOnPorch]

No sorry, you seem to have been misinformed. For Palestine the deal was a swiss cheese state (interspersed with sought to be legalized illegal settlements) and formal abandonment of any sovereign claim to their capital East Jerusalem. I recommend trying to stay more current on the actual situation next time around.

To DoP, etc, let's just say that nuke Korea and Iran scare me no more than nuke Israel. This is because I attempt to base my conclusions on facts rather than idealistic notions or emotions. After all, of all the states and regimes that ever held these weapons, we all know which one actually used it against humans, mostly unarmed civilians as needs to be added. Civilized democracies have no lesser aptitude at justifying and rationalizing even most atrocious acts, and when they do perhaps I'll find their claims of moral superiority better grounded in reality than as of present.

Give me a break. I know way more about the history of the area than you ever will. BTW...can you tell me at what point in time Jerusalem was the 'capital' of 'Palestine'?

[DogOnPorch]

dre: What in the ever loving fuck are you talking about? Israel has almost doubled its size through military occupation, and has openly declared that it will permanently keep part of that land.

Outright fabrication. Israel was at its largest after the Six Day War and has been getting smaller ever since.

BTW: you are aware that many Jewish settlers in the West Bank...a traditional Biblical Jewish area...aren't even Israeli? Or do you equate all Jews with all Israelis? Do you want all Jews out of the West Bank? Why couldn't they become citizens of the Palestinian state in waiting?

[sharkman]

Outright fabrication. Israel was at its largest after the Six Day War and has been getting smaller ever since.

BTW: you are aware that many Jewish settlers in the West Bank...a traditional Biblical Jewish area...aren't even Israeli? Or do you equate all Jews with all Israelis? Do you want all Jews out of the West Bank? Why couldn't they become citizens of the Palestinian state in waiting?

Do you notice how uninformed some are on this topic? And beyond that, propaganda type bullet points on how evil Israel is. Where do they get this nonsense, it seems like more than simple inaccuracies.

[naomiglover]

You seem believe that Israel has expansionist plans and menaces her neighbors which is nonsense.

Haha sharkman.

I really did laugh out loud.

[DogOnPorch]

Do you notice how uninformed some are on this topic? And beyond that, propaganda type bullet points on how evil Israel is. Where do they get this nonsense, it seems like more than simple inaccuracies.

Almost every pro-Palestinian web-site out there repeats the same inaccuracies. Very few go into historical detail as to how the situation came to be the way it is today. Most are also not very critical of the Arab's actions...if at all.

[DogOnPorch]

Haha sharkman.

I really did laugh out loud.

It is generally well known around here of your hatred of Israel...so no doubt sharkman's statement goes against your terrorist propaganda hand-book.

[naomiglover]

It is generally well known around here of your hatred of Israel...so no doubt sharkman's statement goes against your terrorist propaganda hand-book.

The hatred is for the Israeli policy towards the Palestinians which has resulted in violations of international and humanitarian laws.

You may be okay with breaking international and humanitarian laws, but I'm not.

[dre]

Outright fabrication. Israel was at its largest after the Six Day War and has been getting smaller ever since.

BTW: you are aware that many Jewish settlers in the West Bank...a traditional Biblical Jewish area...aren't even Israeli? Or do you equate all Jews with all Israelis? Do you want all Jews out of the West Bank? Why couldn't they become citizens of the Palestinian state in waiting?

No its not a fabrication. Israel has almost twice the land it started out with as a result of military occupation. Not to mention about 1/2 its pottable drinking water comes from the occupied territories. If occupying land and using the resources on it isnt expansionism then mind telling me what the fuck is?

Or do you equate all Jews with all Israelis? Do you want all Jews out of the West Bank? Why couldn't they become citizens of the Palestinian state in waiting?

That has nothing to do with me shit-canning your nonsense about expansionism. I could care less who lives there, but my take on it would be that illegal settlements and their occupants should be removed. Beyond that it would be illegal and wrong for a hypothetical palestinian state to deport inhabitants based on race or religion.

Do you want all Jews out of the West Bank? Why couldn't they become citizens of the Palestinian state in waiting?

I guess thats up to the palestinian state in waiting. Certainly all the settlers that have crossed over from Israel after the partition plan are garden variety illegal immigrants, much like the ten million mexical illegals in the US. In both cases I would say its up to the people and their government to decide on a policy. I would say that any settlers who were in the area before 1947 and their decendants should definately not be forced out.

I definately wont hold my breath for EITHER of those gangs of biblically motivated twits to dot he right thing though.

[M.Dancer]

You may be okay with breaking international and humanitarian laws, but I'm not.

I shall not hold my breath waiting for threads condemning palestinian racism and barborism...your handlers would fire you

[DogOnPorch]

The hatred is for the Israeli policy towards the Palestinians which has resulted in violations of international and humanitarian laws.

You may be okay with breaking international and humanitarian laws, but I'm not.

You're just a Jew-baiter not much better than Julius Streicher. A Jew as well, apparently....which makes it even more laughable. Don't let your Hamas pals find that tid-bit out.

[DogOnPorch]

dre: No its not a fabrication. Israel has almost twice the land it started out with as a result of military occupation. Not to mention about 1/2 its pottable drinking water comes from the occupied territories. If occupying land and using the resources on it isnt expansionism then mind telling me what the fuck is?

You write as if you've taken the Hamas = Victim deal hook line and sinker. You've got the George Galloway rhetoric down pat.

Describe the 6 Day War to me....just short points.

[naomiglover]

You're just a Jew-baiter not much better than Julius Streicher. A Jew as well, apparently....which makes it even more laughable. Don't let your Hamas pals find that tid-bit out.

As of when did standing up for human rights and international law become Jew-baiting?

Why are you so against following international and humanitarian laws?

[DogOnPorch]

As of when did standing up for human rights and international law become Jew-baiting?

Why are you so against following international and humanitarian laws?

Now it's my turn to laugh.

[dre]

You write as if you've taken the Hamas = Victim deal hook line and sinker. You've got the George Galloway rhetoric down pat.

Describe the 6 Day War to me....just short points.

You write as if you've taken the Hamas = Victim deal hook line and sinker

Who said anything about Hamas and what does that have to do with Israels building of farms and settlements and drilling of wells in the occupied terrority and youre ridiculous assertion thats not expansionism?

Describe the 6 Day War to me....just short points.

No.

[M.Dancer]

Now it's my turn to laugh.

That's not fair. They are anti zionists so they get special dispensation

[DogOnPorch]

Who said anything about Hamas and what does that have to do with Israels building of farms and settlements and drilling of wells in the occupied terrority and youre ridiculous assertion thats not expansionism?

No.

As expected, you don't know enough of the basic events.

Anyways...keep-up the good fight. I'm sure those dirty Je...errr...Israelis...will get what's coming to them by the divine sword of Allah.

[DogOnPorch]

That's not fair. They are anti zionists so they get special dispensation

They just didn't know the safety wuz off.

[nicky10013]

That's a pretense. You do not criticise Saudi Arabia or Jordan as you do Israel.

The thread is about Israel not Saudi Arabia. If you want to start a thread about the horrendous conditions in Saudi Arabia, do it and I'll join in.

Nicky, don't tell me that Western Leftists treat Palestinians as they treat Israelis.

Of course the Palestinians are treated better. I don't agree with it because violence is violence and both sides are guilty. However, that doesn't mean I don't understand their reasoning. Israel is a lot bigger, has a sugar daddy and should know better.

Uh, Egypt also imposes a blockade on Gaza. And how does Jordan treat Palestinians? (Hint: The UN gives them travel documents. In 1970, the Jordanian army killed them.)

Whoever said I ever agreed with any of it? I think it's all terrible!

-----

Nicky, as a Western Leftist, you still haven't explained why you support an Arab regime, anti-democratic that accepts honour killings, genital mutilation, and corruption.

Bahahahah, point out where I ever said that. Dude, you must be off your meds. The first part I took seriously, now I just see you're a fucking idiot who either lost his reading glasses or never learnt to begin with.

It is as if you supported Al Capone against FDR. Sorry, I don't get the Western Left and its position on Israel.

Toronto Star

Point proven.

[nicky10013]

No, force maintains the nation state called Israel, whereas none exists for Palestinians, who have squandered opportunity after opportunity. Israel has advanced politically and economically while Palestine stagnates and regresses...Palestine's is a failed strategy that has realized none of these goals. Violence will remain the currency of choice until something different is offered for sale.

No, force threatens Israel. Everytime Israel uses rockets or bulldozes a building it angers Palestinians and spurs them on further. It's tantamount to throwing gasoline on an already raging fire. Who in their right minds would do that?

[dre]

As expected, you don't know enough of the basic events.

Anyways...keep-up the good fight. I'm sure those dirty Je...errr...Israelis...will get what's coming to them by the divine sword of Allah.

Ah yes... because I dont jump through your idiotic hoops in your hopeless attempt to justify your assertion that building towns and drilling wells in an occupied territory and removing resources from it isnt expansionism, I must not know about the "basic events"

Anyways...keep-up the good fight. I'm sure those dirty Je...errr...Israelis...will get what's coming to them by the divine sword of Allah.

For sure! Because if I point to some of Israels actions as being expansionist and destroy your moronic statements to the contrary I MUST HATE JEWS

The ONLY reason youre accusing me of being a racist is because youre gutless, and wont back up the bogus assertion of yours that I already destroyed. You didnt even try. Its your way of changing the subject so that you dont look stupid, and a futile attempt to grasp for the last piece of available flotation before youre pulled under by the currents in your own river of horseshit.

But Im no racist sir, and that load of fetid goatshit wont get you any further than your other non-arguments.