Upgraded Forum

[Guest American Woman]

The error you were receiving before has been fixed. Voting a post positively, or negatively, affects a members overall reputation.

If a post is voted positive or negative, does it show up somewhere in the post? -- {Edited to add} Is that what shows up in the bottom right hand corner? And if so, since I seldom go back and reread my posts, is there some other way of finding out which posts have been given a rating?

Also, can a member vote on the same post more than once? Can they consistently chose a member they don't like and vote their posts down? Seems to me this would give a biased "negative reputation" rating in their profile. It also seems to me that it's pretty easy to anonymously rate a post negative without even having to give an explanation as to why. Personally, if someone has a problem with what I say, I'd appreciate knowing who, along with an explanation.

One more question: Is there an archive where we can find older posts made by members since the "find member's posts" only shows more recent posts?

Thank you.

Edited November 8, 2009 by American Woman

[August1991]

Security wise, I didn't have a choice. The forums needs to be regularly updated to keep hackers at bay.

If that's the issue, I can hardly argue.

Can you create a new thread at the G&M "forums"? Nope.

Can you easily communicate with the moderators and or any of the other forum members? Nope.

Can you search past entries? Nope.

Can you ignore annoying members? Nope

Can you carry on a in-depth discuss without the fear of the moderators suddenly closing comments?

Can you view the postings in multiple different views (threaded, linear, etc)? Nope.

I could go on and on how the G&M "forums" are not really forums. However, the biggest difference is that they're not a community. They're mostly drive-by smears made by rabid partisans only interested in shouting at each other.

Drive by smears? Greg, the G&M moderators can (and will) do all that you suggest. This is a work in progress.

Two points.

First, I don't know but if I were you, I would use my first-mover advantage. You know more about an Internet forum than many on this planet. (Greg, maybe the G&M will hire you.)

Second, MLF is small, we know each other and (I think) we disagree but appreciate the familiarity of our disagreements. (In Ottawa, the Commons carpet is green. The government members all sit on one side.) MLF should stay the same. Coca-Cola has had the same logo and Parliament has had the same colour carpet for over 100 years.

[Charles Anthony]

G,

I love the MLW template integration. This finally LOOKS impressive. Good job!

As to the G&M comments section, it's the same as this forum but on a much larger scale.

Aside from the fact that this forum, the newspapers, comments, pub discussions, et cetera are all non-quantifiable concepts -- the esoteric point of which is that whatever constitutes "larger" as opposed to maybe "smaller" borders on a tautological significance (How do you measure them? Who gets to decide the standard of measurement and comparison?) and is in the eye of the beholder, I think you might appreciate one difference: here in the forum you can simultaneously comment on a G&M article as well as an article from other sources. In the comments section of an online newspaper, you are pretty much limited to commenting on the one article. Edited November 8, 2009 by Charles Anthony
spelling and grammar

[jbg]

Drive by smears? Greg, the G&M moderators can (and will) do all that you suggest. This is a work in progress.

I should point out that CBC and Sympatico had full-blown forums until such activity forced the mass media operators to close them. I had some involvement with CBC's shutdown, when a news article I sourced (along with a Peterborough ON realtor) about highly discriminatory moderation that ran in the National Post forced them to close.

[Argus]

Actually when I was in Second Grade in academic 1964-5 we were taught that "both spellings" were OK. I have since learned that the spelling with the "U's" was not proper English.

And where did you learn this novel bit of grammatical wisdom?

[Smallc]

Oh, jbg, I was going to tell you that a menu similar to that previously existing in the personal assistant exists near the bottom of the Political Forum main page.

[jbg]

And where did you learn this novel bit of grammatical wisdom?

From the "spelling corrections" part of MS Word. And on html the signal is < font color=___>. Not < font colour=___>. Also, even here to select a different color for text the icon, when you hover the cursor, says "color" and the "color" I chose was "color="#00FF00".

Q.E.D.??

Edited November 8, 2009 by jbg

[jbg]

Oh, jbg, I was going to tell you that a menu similar to that previously existing in the personal assistant exists near the bottom of the Political Forum main page.

That menu doesn't have one's own ten last posts.

[Smallc]

That's true. You can see your last 5 posts by going to your own profile, if that helps at all.

[Michael Hardner]

Greg, I don't think that the voting feature will help things, and will likely distract from our discussions.

[jdobbin]

Greg, I don't think that the voting feature will help things, and will likely distract from our discussions.

I noticed that aspect. I've tested it out with your post.

One of the thing I don't like about the comments section on media websites is the voting up and down (not to mention the anonymous nature of the posters). In fact, I don't read the comment sections because it is rarely insightful. The voting seems even less insightful.

Perhaps if the positive or negative thumbs up came with the posters name attached (kind of like Facebook's Like button) then there might be some accountability in choosing to click the button. Then reputation would fall in two directions.

I will mull things over a bit but it is the type of thing has caused me to depart other forums.

[Michael Hardner]

Reputation ratings could lead to more partisanship, group behavior and cliques IMO. MapleLeafWeb is one forum where a community value of quality posting seems to be emerging, and I would hate to see that impacted by 'reputations' which could merely be popularity contests.

[Guest American Woman]

I will mull things over a bit but it is the type of thing has caused me to depart other forums.

Ditto.

[Smallc]

Yes, looking at things now I agree. I don't like the idea of voting on people's posts.

[Greg]

What exactly is the typeset? The same as the rest of Mapleleaf was?

Yup, same as the rest of MLW. However, there might be some inconsistencies - but I'll be addressing these over the coming weeks.

Good work. How long in the end did it take to roll it all out?

About a week. The roll out didn't go as smooth as I would have liked, but the upgrade did force me to consider a redesign of the forums, which I think are a definite improvement. So in a way, I'm glad things didn't go as smoothly as I would have liked

Where is the "New Content" link? I often use that one.

Top navigation - beside "Search Forums." I'm going to include another navigation element, Active Content, shortly.

Gave your own last ten (10) posts, 20 most active posters, etc.

You last 10 posts can be found in your profile, and the 20 most active posters can be found in the forum footer (only in forum topic listings).

Default fonts seem a little big, but thank you for the forum.

Bigger is better than too small.

If a post is voted positive or negative, does it show up somewhere in the post? -- {Edited to add} Is that what shows up in the bottom right hand corner? And if so, since I seldom go back and reread my posts, is there some other way of finding out which posts have been given a rating?

I'll have to do some more research to answer these questions.

Also, can a member vote on the same post more than once?

No, one vote per post.

Can they consistently chose a member they don't like and vote their posts down?

Yes, but it would have little impact. Plus, they are limited in how many posts they can vote on per day - 20 per day.

Seems to me this would give a biased "negative reputation" rating in their profile.

We'll have to wait and see - this is a new feature, it's difficult to determine what it's impact will be.

One more question: Is there an archive where we can find older posts made by members since the "find member's posts" only shows more recent posts?

Go to the users profile, then on the left-hand side, select "Find Posts" or "Find Topics"

Drive by smears? Greg, the G&M moderators can (and will) do all that you suggest. This is a work in progress.

But you see, the newspaper industry is getting closer and closer to the brink of bankruptcy - they've never been in the business of community building and I highly doubt they're willing to invest the time and money into those activities that will enable the community to thrive and prosper.

First, I don't know but if I were you, I would use my first-mover advantage. You know more about an Internet forum than many on this planet. (Greg, maybe the G&M will hire you.)

Ha, well, I certainly wouldn't turn them away if they asked for me help! BUT, the problem with the newspapers and their recent infatuation with online discussion is that it's roll out wasn't well thought out. They simply added comment functionality to the bottom of certain stories - that isn't a forum. That resembles a weblog, more than a forum.

The discussions flowing from these story comments are more reactionary than engaging - and so they should be. They're comments to the story, not actual back and forth discussions on a specific topic.

Second, MLF is small, we know each other and (I think) we disagree but appreciate the familiarity of our disagreements. (In Ottawa, the Commons carpet is green. The government members all sit on one side.) MLF should stay the same. Coca-Cola has had the same logo and Parliament has had the same colour carpet for over 100 years.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I should point out that CBC and Sympatico had full-blown forums until such activity forced the mass media operators to close them. I had some involvement with CBC's shutdown, when a news article I sourced (along with a Peterborough ON realtor) about highly discriminatory moderation that ran in the National Post forced them to close.

Newspaper owners, editors and writers start to get nervous when they see the garbage that can be spewed forth by anyone with a computer and a internet connection. Seriously, that is why we would NEVER allow comments below our educational features. We are not particularly interested in hearing someone - who has no idea what they're talking about - publicly critique one of our features. It detracts from the legitimacy of the feature, and in the newspaper comments section, from the legitimacy of the journalists work.

A traditional discussion forum - separate from the primary content - is the optimum method of encouraging debate and engagement amongst readers of your website.

That menu doesn't have one's own ten last posts.

Look in your profile.

Greg, I don't think that the voting feature will help things, and will likely distract from our discussions.

We will try it out for a few months, if it isn't working out, I'll remove the feature.

[Greg]

Reputation ratings could lead to more partisanship, group behavior and cliques IMO. MapleLeafWeb is one forum where a community value of quality posting seems to be emerging, and I would hate to see that impacted by 'reputations' which could merely be popularity contests.

I have disabled the reputation system until further notice.

[jdobbin]

Reputation ratings could lead to more partisanship, group behavior and cliques IMO. MapleLeafWeb is one forum where a community value of quality posting seems to be emerging, and I would hate to see that impacted by 'reputations' which could merely be popularity contests.

It seems inevitable that this will happen. Think I'll be withdrawing from participating on the board at this time. It has been a good run and I don't question the dedication of Greg and Charles in keeping the forum running smoothly. I know how hard they have worked in both design and moderating things. It has been great in terms of lay-out and subject headings for discussions.

I won't be posting anymore although I'll likely keep reading some of the threads simply for the insights. I might send a note or two to people personally if something strikes as something I just have your thoughts on.

Some of the posters here have been extremely interesting over the years. Some I have clashed with repeatedly but generally were never boring. Sometimes it has gotten quite heated. On occasion, I have stopped engaging with a poster or two to avoid a continuation of something that ultimately was negative. To any an all posters, I thank you and to some, I'm sorry if words or actions were more than just mere disagreement.

I wish everyone well and if there are any developments on the board, please let me know.

Once again, thanks for forum and thanks to the people who filled it with their contributions.

[Guest American Woman]

I have disabled the reputation system until further notice.

Thank you.

[Greg]

I have disabled the reputation system until further notice.

Note: I'm discussing the reputation system with Charles and doing more research on the actual feature. When I make a decision, I will create a new thread in the Support section of the forums.

[Smallc]

It seems inevitable that this will happen. Think I'll be withdrawing from participating on the board at this time.

Although we have disagreed in recent time, I think you have provided a great deal of insight and information over the time that I have been on this forum. In many cases, your contribution will be missed.

[kimmy]

I agree that the "vote" function was not a particularly worthwhile addition to the board... hadn't tried it, hadn't planned on using it, hadn't noticed whether I got any votes for or against, didn't even notice that it's been disabled...

...but I'm pretty amazed that Dobbins is leaving because of it.

From the sheer volume Dobbins posts, I can't imagine him possibly being worried that some people might not like what he has to say. I'm puzzled that he is worried that people might use the "vote" function to tell him they didn't like his post, when most people here have no problem using actual words to tell you what they think.

I'm also perplexed at the concern over the "Top 20 posters" feature. Who could possibly care?

Previously I had found it annoying that one had to use the advanced search function to find their own posts. I notice that a "Find Posts" feature has been added to the left hand side of the profile page to do this automatically. (the "Posts" and "Topics" tabs on the profile page have always been beyond useless.) Overall I think the upgrade is very nice. The default font does seem a little large to me as well, but I can get over it.

-k

[GostHacked]

IF you want to increase, decrease the zize of a font om anhy given website, all you need to do is use CTRL+ Mousewheel. But yeah the font is huge compared to most sites I visit.

I am against the voting on posts as well.

[Guest American Woman]

IF you want to increase, decrease the zize of a font om anhy given website, all you need to do is use CTRL+ Mousewheel.

I didn't know that! Thank you.

[kimmy]

IF you want to increase, decrease the zize of a font om anhy given website, all you need to do is use CTRL+ Mousewheel. But yeah the font is huge compared to most sites I visit.

I am against the voting on posts as well.

"Control and Plus" and "Control and Minus" work, too.

-k

[eyeball]

Did the View Recent Posts button disapear or is it just me?