Upgraded Forum

[GostHacked]

I'll say that the site looks and feels fine as it is. But if the colours and fonts are changing, then that really seems to be a minor thing to me. All websites go through a major overhaul in look and feel at least once during their lifespan. Although I think that leaving because of the change in colours and fonts is quite dumb, it is a huge reason why people leave those forums. I have always advocated for ease of functionality and a simple look. MLW currently has just that. Simple easy to navigate and it's not busy as such that I can't follow the thread conversation.

Greg, I think the best way to keep this site going and to increase membership is to make it as simple as possible to navigate and read. I am sure you are already aware of that. I personally like the colours that are presently on MLW. But if you do decide to change them along with the font, try a few out to get the right combination. Also, i'd keep the colours muted like they are now. They don't take away from the site, but really add to it. A nice muted red would fit nice. Being the colour on our flag n all.

Keep fluff and garbage off the site. Like eyecandy ads and other retarded flash banners. If you are concerned about covering cost, have a 'donate' button. I'd gladly chip in a few bucks to help out. That is the least I can do being a member on this site for about 4 years.

Actually, if you are comfortable with it, how do you generate funds in order to keep the site alive and registerd??

[Michael Hardner]

Also, Greg, the link to Rules in this announcement doesn't work:

"Announcement: Posting Rules - New Members Please Read this!!!"

[Greg]

Also, Greg, the link to Rules in this announcement doesn't work:

Thanks for the tip, I've fixed the broken link.

[jbg]

If you edit a post, how do you preview the edit? You could on the old forum and can't quite figure it out here.

[Michael Hardner]

jbg - edit the the post, then click 'use full editor' and there's a preview option.

[M.Dancer]

The one and only serious complaint I have is that clicking a link DOES NOT open a new tab or window.

[jbg]

The one and only serious complaint I have is that clicking a link DOES NOT open a new tab or window.

Right-click the link and do it that way.

[Sir Bandelot]

I couldn't get the image tags to work. Tried manually adding image tags.

It just shows a blank square where the image should be. Is it being blocked somehow?

[Greg]

I couldn't get the image tags to work. Tried manually adding image tags.

It just shows a blank square where the image should be. Is it being blocked somehow?

Image upload capability has been disabled for security reasons.

[jbg]

Image upload capability has been disabled for security reasons.

Not that I disagree but how is "media" more secure than "images"?

[Sir Bandelot]

Image upload capability has been disabled for security reasons.

Thanks Greg. Just to clarify, I was linking to an image file, not uploading. The image file was already hosted on another server. In other words I used the [/img] tags and put the url in between. But no image showed up.

But if there is a security concern even for doing it this way, no problem I'm sure we can live with that.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[Greg]

Not that I disagree but how is "media" more secure than "images"?

Can you elaborate? The upload feature is disabled, you can't upload any type of media.

Thanks Greg. Just to clarify, I was linking to an image file, not uploading. The image file was already hosted on another server. In other words I used the [/img] tags and put the url in between. But no image showed up.

Yup, I understand what you mean. I'm hesitant to allow any type of image files to be included in postings, as some users can really get carried away. I'll spare you the specific details, but a few years back a hacker uploaded a jpg that was infected with a virus which embedded itself into the forum templates and which tried to hijack computers with a nasty little virus.

I'm not sure if the same technique could be employed with externally sourced images using the tag - but I'll look into it.

[GostHacked]

The one and only serious complaint I have is that clicking a link DOES NOT open a new tab or window.

Use Firefox? Middle click when clicking a link. I'd be really surprised with any website that be default opens up links in a new browser or tab.

[August1991]

Some posters here may not be as familiar with technology, and as such I need to point out to them that the internet changes fairly quickly.

New technology? I am one of those people who arrived several times in a new office of typewriters and left it with almost everyone using keyboards. Been there, done that.

In general, my opinion is that new "technology" should make life easier. Well designed technology has a flat learning curve. If change is necessary, the aim of a good "programmer/system analyst/software engineer" is a seamless transition.

When users claim the old system was better, I always listened and paid attention. I designed the new system to mimic the old system - but with "my personally chosen" added features.

Use Firefox? Middle click when clicking a link. I'd be really surprised with any website that be default opens up links in a new browser or tab.

Why should I have to use Firefox or middle click at all... (BTW, what is a middle click?) Edited November 20, 2009 by August1991

[Guest American Woman]

The upload feature is disabled, you can't upload any type of media.

The "media" feature works for me:

And others have used it, too. I can't, however, insert images.

Edited November 20, 2009 by American Woman

[August1991]

The "media" feature works for me:

And others have used it, too. I can't, however, insert images.

Images, videos, who cares?

When I post here or on any forum, I just want to have a simple conversation with people. I want to be able to check whether my comment has been posted and verify that all can see it, and I want to see whether there has been a response, or how many people have read my post.

----

Good software is user driven. This recent reform is all about software fixes. It's programmer driven, not user driven.

IMV, Greg doesn't get it.

[Sir Bandelot]

I'm not sure if the same technique could be employed with externally sourced images using the tag - but I'll look into it.

Thanks Greg. You might have other reasons for not wanting images as well. The ability to show images to unsuspecting forum users opens up a whole new can of worms. It might be a detriment to the forum. As long as I can post an image as a link, and the user has the option to click that link, or not, that would be good enough for me.

[Melanie_]

Images, videos, who cares?

When I post here or on any forum, I just want to have a simple conversation with people. I want to be able to check whether my comment has been posted and verify that all can see it, and I want to see whether there has been a response, or how many people have read my post.

----

Good software is user driven. This recent reform is all about software fixes. It's programmer driven, not user driven.

IMV, Greg doesn't get it.

I really don't understand your complaint. You can still have a simple conversation, check that your posts are there, see if anyone has responded, etc. The upgrade hasn't changed any of that. In fact, the "new content" and "active content" buttons are great features, because you can easily see where you left off during your last visit. You can watch a particular topic or forum so you know when someone has posted something, as well. What exactly doesn't Greg get? Because I think I don't get it, either.

[Michael Hardner]

New technology? I am one of those people who arrived several times in a new office of typewriters and left it with almost everyone using keyboards. Been there, done that.

Ok. Changing the skin of the board should be less traumatic than going from typewriters to PCs then.

In general, my opinion is that new "technology" should make life easier. Well designed technology has a flat learning curve. If change is necessary, the aim of a good "programmer/system analyst/software engineer" is a seamless transition.

New technology doesn't necessarily make life easier. If you read McLuhan, he would say that it changes the sense ratios and reorganizes our thinking:

"The main concept of McLuhan's argument (later elaborated upon in The Medium is the Massage) is that new technologies (like alphabets, printing presses, and even speech itself) exert a gravitational effect on cognition, which in turn affects social organization: print technology changes our perceptual habits ("visual homogenizing of experience"), which in turn affects social interactions ("fosters a mentality that gradually resists all but a... specialist outlook")."

McLuhan Wiki Page

When users claim the old system was better, I always listened and paid attention. I designed the new system to mimic the old system - but with "my personally chosen" added features.

Why should I have to use Firefox or middle click at all... (BTW, what is a middle click?)

Middle clicking is for Mac users only. Like Catholics in heaven, they think they're the only ones on the internet.

[Michael Hardner]

Images, videos, who cares?

Lots of people, in fact most people. My father used to say "who would want a radio in their car" ?

When I post here or on any forum, I just want to have a simple conversation with people. I want to be able to check whether my comment has been posted and verify that all can see it, and I want to see whether there has been a response, or how many people have read my post.

If any of that functionality has been taken away then say so.

Good software is user driven. This recent reform is all about software fixes. It's programmer driven, not user driven.

IMV, Greg doesn't get it.

Actually, good software - anything used by people - is "design driven" and user-focused. We depend on designers to create tools that fit our hand, but we don't ask the people to design the tool. I suspect this is what you meant anyway.

Auguste, this is a simple "skin change" nothing more. The functionality seems to be there for the most part, but the look is different. This was what I alluded to when I spoke of tail fins being dropped from American car designs by the 1960s. There's usually an annoying adjustment period, after which you will find you get used to it, and in fact won't be able to go back.

[Guest American Woman]

Images, videos, who cares?

I wasn't saying I cared; I was just informing Greg that I, and others, have been able to do it since he said the "media" feature was disabled.

When I post here or on any forum, I just want to have a simple conversation with people. I want to be able to check whether my comment has been posted and verify that all can see it, and I want to see whether there has been a response, or how many people have read my post.

It's still as easy as ever to have a simple conversation with people; the posting aspect hasn't changed. We write a post, we click 'add reply,' we see that our post has been posted immediately, and that should be enough to verify that all can see it.

Beyond that .... Was there ever a time when we could see how many people have read our posts? The count shows the number of people who have at least opened the thread (which doesn't necessarily mean they read any of it), but beyond that, I don't recall being able to check specifics regarding individual posts; but even if there was a number associated with each post it wouldn't mean that many people actually read it and it wouldn't distinguish if it were participating members or simply 'guests,' or the same person reading it more than once, for that matter.

Good software is user driven. This recent reform is all about software fixes. It's programmer driven, not user driven.

IMV, Greg doesn't get it.

I'm honestly trying to understand where you are coming from because you seem genuinely put off by the changes, but I just don't see how this present forum is any less user-friendly than the last version was. How is it not user driven? We post the same as ever and the threads are presented the same as ever and we access the posts the same as ever. Nothing has changed in that regard.

[kimmy]

IMV, Greg doesn't get it.

I'm sure that Greg doesn't "get" "it", and I'm sure the rest of us will be no wiser either until you explain what "it" is.

What is "it", August? That the "quote" boxes have green borders now? Is that what's pushed you off the deep end?

I'm honestly trying to understand where you are coming from because you seem genuinely put off by the changes, but I just don't see how this present forum is any less user-friendly than the last version was. How is it not user driven? We post the same as ever and the threads are presented the same as ever and we access the posts the same as ever. Nothing has changed in that regard.

August is a "big picture" thinker... he doesn't like to focus on trivialities and specifics. In this instance, the "big picture" is so immense that it's invisible.

Ultimately, August is irked not by the changes in functionality or look-and-feel-- which are so minor as to be negligible-- but by the notion that Greg installed a new version of the software at all.

-k

[Sir Bandelot]

I'm not sure if the same technique could be employed with externally sourced images using the tag - but I'll look into it.

So Greg, what I'm saying is, maybe you should just remove the "Insert image" icon in the top control panel, if it doesn't do anything.

[August1991]

I'm sure that Greg doesn't "get" "it", and I'm sure the rest of us will be no wiser either until you explain what "it" is.

What is "it", August? That the "quote" boxes have green borders now? Is that what's pushed you off the deep end?

If that's all it were...

It seems to me that Greg has more or less put the forum back to the way it was before, at least from a user's perspective. We now have green borders and bigger fonts. I can live with these minor cosmetic changes.

I am still irritated with various posting glitches.

-----

What was "it"?

Mine was a plea to leave the forum the way it was. If security issues require an update, then do it but users (ideally) should not notice the changes.

We had a good forum. It worked. Why change it?

People in North America are now used to driving on the right side of the road. If you arrive with some scheme to change this, have everyone drive on the left as in Japan or the UK, my instinct is to argue that you're wrong - you should leave it alone.

Systems should adapt to people's habits. People should not have to change to fit the system.

New technology doesn't necessarily make life easier. If you read McLuhan, he would say that it changes the sense ratios and reorganizes our thinking:

"The main concept of McLuhan's argument (later elaborated upon in The Medium is the Massage) is that new technologies (like alphabets, printing presses, and even speech itself) exert a gravitational effect on cognition, which in turn affects social organization: print technology changes our perceptual habits ("visual homogenizing of experience"), which in turn affects social interactions ("fosters a mentality that gradually resists all but a... specialist outlook")."

Michael, the Internet and Internet forums are "new technology". An upgrade to the MLF software is hardly a tectonic shift in Western Civilization.

Whatever the change, I still believe that it works best when individuals see it as seamless. Later, they may have a different opinion.

Edited November 22, 2009 by August1991

[jbg]

We had a good forum. It worked. Why change it?

Typewriters worked as well. I loved my Olivetti.