ironstone Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Please tell us how the nation of Israel should have responded to the rocket attacks from Gaza.Explosive laden rockets,inaccurate,fired in the general direction of Israel with a greater than even chance of hitting civilians.Repeatedly,with no advance warning given by the way.And keep in mind,many of the launching sites are within densely populated civilian areas,often among women and children. For all those opposed to a limited military response(Israel's current action),what other options are better?Perhaps a chorus of zombies chanting the Lennon "peace" song within earshot of the Hamas leadership? How the hell would you respond?And remember,there would be no Israeli military action in Gaza now if Hamas didn't START this mess by lobbing rockets! Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
DogOnPorch Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 You should join one of the threads already in progress. Cheers Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Jerry J. Fortin Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Please tell us how the nation of Israel should have responded to the rocket attacks from Gaza.Explosive laden rockets,inaccurate,fired in the general direction of Israel with a greater than even chance of hitting civilians.Repeatedly,with no advance warning given by the way.And keep in mind,many of the launching sites are within densely populated civilian areas,often among women and children.For all those opposed to a limited military response(Israel's current action),what other options are better?Perhaps a chorus of zombies chanting the Lennon "peace" song within earshot of the Hamas leadership? How the hell would you respond?And remember,there would be no Israeli military action in Gaza now if Hamas didn't START this mess by lobbing rockets! I would turn the Gaza strip into rubble and then push it into the sea. Quote
wulf42 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 I would turn the Gaza strip into rubble and then push it into the sea. Agreed! Start over again and rebuild from the ground up! Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Rebuild ! A very "neat" solution. It sounds very positive. Although, the aforementioned rubble would include the bodies of 1.4 million Palestinians. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
BC_chick Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 How to stop the rockets? Prevention would've been a good start. How about recognising the legitimacy of hamas much to their chagrin and not starving Gaza for the last 18 months with blockades? Hamas has repeatedly said over the years that they are no longer seeking to destroy Israel, they just want to re-establish the 1967 borders. Israel got the preconditions that they wanted, why go on? Food and shelter are basic human needs. The blockades were preventing the basic needs of Gaza. Why do Israelis have the right to protect themselves but Gazans don't? Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
jbg Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Rebuild ! A very "neat" solution. It sounds very positive. Although, the aforementioned rubble would include the bodies of 1.4 million Palestinians.Before those people elected Hamas they should have considered the consequences of voting for continued warfare.Oh, I get it, they counted on being able to attack with impunity, knowing that the world would counsel Israeli "restraint" with regard to the outrages. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Before those people elected Hamas they should have considered the consequences of voting for continued warfare. That's quite a lame argument. I don't think the bombs can tell who voted for Hamas, or who voted Fatah. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Jerry J. Fortin Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 The point is, by majority decision they choose a terrorist group to govern them. That was their choice, and now it is their responsibility and that equates to a huge liability in political terms. I would not bother to rebuild Gaza myself, unless it was an Israeli settlement. Turn it into the garden of Eden at the hands of the Jews, give the Arabs something to ponder. Quote
jbg Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 That's quite a lame argument.I don't think the bombs can tell who voted for Hamas, or who voted Fatah. Are you saying we should have foregone firebombing Dresden and quite likely be speaking German now? (If we were alive that is). Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Michael Hardner Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Are you saying we should have foregone firebombing Dresden and quite likely be speaking German now? (If we were alive that is). jbq - We would have won without killing civilians in Dresden. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
jbg Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 jbq - We would have won without killing civilians in Dresden.I'm not so sure.Increasingly, my view of war is that the war doesn't end until the civilians become fed up with it. Dresden would have created the appropriate loss of confidence of the people in the way Hitler was leading them. Similarly, the war with Japan ended when the people were convinced they would all die unless the leaders surrendered. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Moonlight Graham Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Since this crisis began, 4 Israelis have been killed by rockets fired from Gaza. In the two decades preceding it, 20 have been killed. Not sure what the Arab casualties are now, over 400 for sure and rising, with the U.N. claiming 25% of those being casualties. There is proportionality to consider. Does 4 dead deserve a 400+ bloodspilling and a large ground invasion of Gaza? If this kind of violence is a the result of 4 dead from rocketfire, how will there ever be any peace? Israel at the least should have responded more proportionally. Take out some rocket sites. 20-30 dead? Its impossible to put a number on lives like that, but what is happening now is crazy. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Since this crisis began, 4 Israelis have been killed by rockets fired from Gaza. In the two decades preceding it, 20 have been killed. This is unacceptable to any sovereign state with the means to respond with force. Not sure what the Arab casualties are now, over 400 for sure and rising, with the U.N. claiming 25% of those being casualties. There is proportionality to consider. Does 4 dead deserve a 400+ bloodspilling and a large ground invasion of Gaza? Yes, if that's what necessary to prevent further rocket attacks. Nobody is insisting on "proportionality" from Canada in Afghanistan. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
JB Globe Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Please tell us how the nation of Israel should have responded to the rocket attacks from Gaza . . . And remember,there would be no Israeli military action in Gaza now if Hamas didn't START this mess by lobbing rockets! Please don't tell me you think that this is all there is to this conflict . . . PLEASE. Quote
jbg Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Please don't tell me you think that this is all there is to this conflict . . . PLEASE.Hey JBG Imposter. Tell us what you think. Or if you think. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
betsy Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Please tell us how the nation of Israel should have responded to the rocket attacks from Gaza.Explosive laden rockets,inaccurate,fired in the general direction of Israel with a greater than even chance of hitting civilians.Repeatedly,with no advance warning given by the way.And keep in mind,many of the launching sites are within densely populated civilian areas,often among women and children.For all those opposed to a limited military response(Israel's current action),what other options are better?Perhaps a chorus of zombies chanting the Lennon "peace" song within earshot of the Hamas leadership? How the hell would you respond?And remember,there would be no Israeli military action in Gaza now if Hamas didn't START this mess by lobbing rockets! Really go for Hamas and finish this once and for all! Ignore the UN and the global protests. They will always be against Israel, no matter what. Quote
Wild Bill Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Why, it seems so obvious I can't understand why everyone doesn't see it! Proportionality! This all started because Hamas kept firing rockets at random into Israel. So, Israel should just fire an equal number of random rockets back! If a Hamas rocket falls into a bedroom and kills a baby, then Israel should limit their retaliation to killing just one Gaza baby! If a Hamas rocket falls into a schoolyard and kills a half dozen school children then Israel should target a Gaza school and select ONLY 6 Gaza children, of the same sexes and ages, and kill them! Ridiculous? Of course! Enough of this 'proportionality' and 'Israeli over-reaction' talk. It's just a red herring to allow Hamas to kill with impunity. Same old, same old 'unilateral disarmament' talk. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
JB Globe Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Enough of this 'proportionality' and 'Israeli over-reaction' talk. And what of talking about a strategy that will actually secure long-term peace for Israel? What about a strategy that will actually work? That's what we should be talking about, not the current ground campaign, because that will do nothing long-term. Quote
Avro Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Terror begets terror. Perhaps instead of violence Hamas should use diplomacy, otherwise they had better get use to death. May I add that most of the aid Palastinians get is from Isreal itself, why aren't Arab countires doing more to help them? Muslims around the world unite to comdem Isreal but are strangly silent when Hamas launches rockets into Isreal.....why? Isreal is doing the right thing. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted January 5, 2009 Report Posted January 5, 2009 Let us hope they finish what they have started and do what needs to be done. Quote
betsy Posted January 6, 2009 Report Posted January 6, 2009 And what of talking about a strategy that will actually secure long-term peace for Israel? What about a strategy that will actually work? Well I guess in order to secure a long-term peace for Israel....Israel might just as well blow itself up into smithereens. The obliteration of Israel is the only answer since most of the Arab world believe that Israel does not have the right to exist. Do you believe peace will ever be achieved if your very existence is the reason why you're always at war? Because your annhilation is the main determined goal of your opponent? Quote
JB Globe Posted January 6, 2009 Report Posted January 6, 2009 Well I guess in order to secure a long-term peace for Israel....Israel might just as well blow itself up into smithereens. The obliteration of Israel is the only answer since most of the Arab world believe that Israel does not have the right to exist. That's just not true. Israel went to war with Egypt and Jordan, several times, and each war didn't prevent another one from occurring no matter if they beat their opponents or not. Then they decided to go the diplomatic route and sign peace treaties with them - and the result is cordial relations ever since. In fact, Egypt now gives Israel a neutral party to moderate talks between them and Hamas. Both Egypt and Jordan recognize Israel, and most Arab states recognize it's right to exist, even if they don't have diplomatic ties with it. It's been 20 years of intifada and so far the military option hasn't provided any results, I think it's time to try a new strategy once it becomes clear how pointless this current operation is. Do you believe peace will ever be achieved if your very existence is the reason why you're always at war? You're confusing Hamas rhetoric with Hamas strategy. Only an idiot would believe it's possible for Palestinians to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and whatever your opinion of Hamas' leadership is, they're not idiots. As I said in another post on this topic - they distinguish themselves from Fatah by their militancy and nationalism, hence why they say they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth - that messages appeals to a certain segment of the population. And that segment is greater in Gaza than in the West Bank, precisely because life is so much worse there than anywhere else. Keep in mind that such a sentiment didn't exist en mass in 1987 when the intifada started, but it exists now. If Israel wanted to increase support for Hamas, it couldn't have done a better job than it's currently doing - anyone who wasn't a supporter before this conflict in Gaza, is surely now. Just look at the prestige Hezbollah got after its stalemate with Israel - the same thing will happen here. Diplomacy is the only option available to Israel that will translate into long-term peace. Quote
jbg Posted January 6, 2009 Report Posted January 6, 2009 And what of talking about a strategy that will actually secure long-term peace for Israel? What about a strategy that will actually work?The peace of the grave is what you seek for Israel. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
JB Globe Posted January 6, 2009 Report Posted January 6, 2009 I think it's important for people to remember that from 1967 - 1987, Israel was able to control all of Gaza & The West Bank with 300-400 soldiers. If Palestinians were incapable of living peacefully with Israelis, than there would have been problems on day one, but in fact the general population remained peaceful for 20 years. The reasoning was that by playing by the rules, they would eventually get one of two outcomes prescribed by international law for occupied people: either they would get the rights as a citizens of the occupier (ie - the right to vote), or they would get an independent state, or autonomy. Quote
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