Next President: Barack Obama

[Black Dog]

No its still amounts to a very politically divided nation.

You mean, like in just about every other election since 1776?

[JerrySeinfeld]

You're funny. In '04, Bush's 0.2 per cent margin of victory was considered by the right to be a resounding endorsement of his government and its policies. Four years on and Obama's 6.5 per cent lead over the challenger is considered "not very good." Me thinks if the results were reversed you'd be singing a very different tune.

Harp about the past all day long if you want.

Given the massive unpopularity of the sitting president, the horrid condition of the economy and financial markets, two unpopular wars, a soaring unemployment rate and an ornery electorate, the fact that Obama only managed to garner ever so slightly north of half the popular vote isn't very impressive.

As with the Primaries versus Hillary, while the press couldn't wait for a coronation, they basically had to drag Obama across the finish line with every biased effort possible.

For a guy who's suppose to be such a captivating inspirational country-saving orator...for an campaign who's trademark was huge 100,000+ person rallies, stadium speeches and greek god-like columns onstage, for a man who planned ahead for a 300,000+ person acceptance speech, his results were pretty meagre.

Hopefully, for the sake of the american public, these anemic election results juxtaposed next to the BIG SHOW campaign aren't an indication of what we can expect for the next 4 years.

Obama's a good talker, but as we saw in his first press conference, those "words of hope and ispiration" are already starting to ring hollow in the reality of the economic slump.

[Alta4ever]

Harp about the past all day long if you want.

Given the massive unpopularity of the sitting president, the horrid condition of the economy and financial markets, two unpopular wars, a soaring unemployment rate and an ornery electorate, the fact that Obama only managed to garner ever so slightly north of half the popular vote isn't very impressive.

As with the Primaries versus Hillary, while the press couldn't wait for a coronation, they basically had to drag Obama across the finish line with every biased effort possible.

For a guy who's suppose to be such a captivating inspirational country-saving orator...for an campaign who's trademark was huge 100,000+ person rallies, stadium speeches and greek god-like columns onstage, for a man who planned ahead for a 300,000+ person acceptance speech, his results were pretty meagre.

Hopefully, for the sake of the american public, these anemic election results juxtaposed next to the BIG SHOW campaign aren't an indication of what we can expect for the next 4 years.

Obama's a good talker, but as we saw in his first press conference, those "words of hope and ispiration" are already starting to ring hollow in the reality of the economic slump.

Thanks Jerry I doubt anyone could have said it better.

[GostHacked]

Harp about the past all day long if you want.

Given the massive unpopularity of the sitting president, the horrid condition of the economy and financial markets, two unpopular wars, a soaring unemployment rate and an ornery electorate, the fact that Obama only managed to garner ever so slightly north of half the popular vote isn't very impressive.

What was the margin over Gore in 2000? That was less impressive. And the first time GWB was elected was before, 9/11, War on Terror, or the finnancial crisis. Why is Obama's margin of victory larger than each of Bush's election results?

If McCain had won the election, the margin would have been about the same. The US is heavily divided in terms of political views. That shows in the election process and the margin of victory for the winner.

For a guy who's suppose to be such a captivating inspirational country-saving orator...for an campaign who's trademark was huge 100,000+ person rallies, stadium speeches and greek god-like columns onstage, for a man who planned ahead for a 300,000+ person acceptance speech, his results were pretty meagre.

I guess ACORN did not do enough to widen the margin lol.

[Black Dog]

Harp about the past all day long if you want.

Yeah, stating a fact is harping.

Given the massive unpopularity of the sitting president, the horrid condition of the economy and financial markets, two unpopular wars, a soaring unemployment rate and an ornery electorate, the fact that Obama only managed to garner ever so slightly north of half the popular vote isn't very impressive.

Given how many prognosticators hereabouts who predicted a McCain win (including you, sunshine), I think that's pretty good.

As with the Primaries versus Hillary, while the press couldn't wait for a coronation, they basically had to drag Obama across the finish line with every biased effort possible.

Tin foil hats all around!

For a guy who's suppose to be such a captivating inspirational country-saving orator...for an campaign who's trademark was huge 100,000+ person rallies, stadium speeches and greek god-like columns onstage, for a man who planned ahead for a 300,000+ person acceptance speech, his results were pretty meagre.

Yep, netting the highest percentage of the popular vote since Bush I in an election with the highest turnout in a generation is totally child's play.

I don't think you're exactly what one would call a unbiased observer. Put another way: your frothing devotion to all things GOP makes your opinions on the matter pretty much irrelevant. Obama could ride into the inauguration on the back of a fire breathing unicorn holding Osama bin Ladens bloody, still-beating heart in one hand and billions of dollars in tax cut legislation in the other and you'd still be bitching about him.

[Shady]

I did not notice the race card factor from Obama's team as much as I heard it from the McCain camp.

Really? What "race card factor" did you hear out of the McCain camp? I know I heard Obama telling us how he doesn't "look like all the other President's on the dollar bills" an awful lot.

[GostHacked]

Really? What "race card factor" did you hear out of the McCain camp? I know I heard Obama telling us how he doesn't "look like all the other President's on the dollar bills" an awful lot.

I guess when Obama makes a black joke now it will be scrutinized to the maximum. Why can't a joke be a joke? Meh. But you may be right, it really is neither camp that is throwing the race card out there, it is the supporters of those camps.

[Black Dog]

Really? What "race card factor" did you hear out of the McCain camp? I know I heard Obama telling us how he doesn't "look like all the other President's on the dollar bills" an awful lot.

WTF is the "race card," exactly? Is just mentioning race "playing the race card" now?

[kimmy]

WTF is the "race card," exactly? Is just mentioning race "playing the race card" now?

Shouldn't that question be directed at the person who accused the McCain campaign of "playing the race card"?

And what's your opinion on that question?

In light of Rev Wright's nauseating speeches coming to light, Obama went on TV and gave a speech about race that many have pointed to as a pivotal moment on the campaign. Could a white candidate have gone on TV and made a speech about race?

If he were Barry Dunham, D-Whiteguy, would the message of "Change!" have been as resoundingly successful? Did the visible proof that he really IS different from every other major party Presidential candidate in history help that message?

If he were Barry Dunham, D-Whiteguy, would he have received the support of 95% of black voters and the large majority of other non-white voters?

He never asked people to vote for him based on his skin color. And he never tried to deflect legitimate criticism of his policies by saying "y'all just pickin' on me because I'm black."

However, it seems to me that his campaign was able to use his race to beneficial effect anyway.

-k

[Shady]

However, it seems to me that his campaign was able to use his race to beneficial effect anyway.

-k

Exactly. And we shouldn't underestimate the power of white guilt either. Ol' Barry had many things working in his favour.

[capricorn]

Ol' Barry had many things working in his favour.

I would think having a Republican opponent ranks high up on the plus side.

[Black Dog]

Shouldn't that question be directed at the person who accused the McCain campaign of "playing the race card"?

What difference does it make?

And what's your opinion on that question?

Playing the race card can either be using race to terminate debate (for example, accusing someone who disagrees with you of racism) or, alternatively, exploiting racial fears (see: McCain's "black baby").

In light of Rev Wright's nauseating speeches coming to light, Obama went on TV and gave a speech about race that many have pointed to as a pivotal moment on the campaign. Could a white candidate have gone on TV and made a speech about race?

Probably not the same speech, but I can't see why not.

If he were Barry Dunham, D-Whiteguy, would the message of "Change!" have been as resoundingly successful? Did the visible proof that he really IS different from every other major party Presidential candidate in history help that message?

If he were Barry Dunham, D-Whiteguy, would he have received the support of 95% of black voters and the large majority of other non-white voters?

He never asked people to vote for him based on his skin color. And he never tried to deflect legitimate criticism of his policies by saying "y'all just pickin' on me because I'm black."

However, it seems to me that his campaign was able to use his race to beneficial effect anyway.

So Barack Obama played the race card without playing the race card. Cos he's black, see.

[Moonlight Graham]

Given the massive unpopularity of the sitting president, the horrid condition of the economy and financial markets, two unpopular wars, a soaring unemployment rate and an ornery electorate, the fact that Obama only managed to garner ever so slightly north of half the popular vote isn't very impressive.

So what does that say about those that voted for McCain instead?

[jbg]

You really should read the Rep forums. The right wing (and it is always the extremes-both sides) is doing the very same thing the left did. Bitch and whine.

The only thing I see different is the racist photos attached to it.

Even though I voted for McCain I'm constrained to largely agree.

The boards are replete with terms like "RINO" (acronym for "Republican in Name Only" to deride McCain and his supporters. Any hint of moderation or being open to views on some issues brands one a RINO.

You, and others, have attacked my views on the few issues that I am conservative on. Those attacks are, at least from you, not personal (JB Globe and jdobbin are a different story). On these boards, while I have not drawn attacks, McCain and other moderates have. They think that Sarah Palin (who I unfortunately expect to be the next President) walks on water.

Those people are unbelievable.

[Shady]

They think that Sarah Palin (who I unfortunately expect to be the next President) walks on water.

Come on, we all know it's the most merciful, Lord Barack Obama, the Messiah, who walks on water. And I don't think Sarah Palin will be the next President. Possibly the next Vice President, on an actual conservative ticket. But more likely, Alaska's governor for the next several years, or their next senator.

[kimmy]

So what does that say about those that voted for McCain instead?

I dunno...

...that they didn't hold McCain responsible for those issues?

...that they considered McCain to be a better candidate?

...that they considered Obama to be a lousy candidate?

...that they preferred McCain's policies to Obama's?

One can only wonder. This is cryptic indeed.

What difference does it make?

Well, it sounded like you were accusing Shady of something he didn't actually say, when in fact it was Gosthacked who was throwing around "race card" accusations; Shady's only contribution was to ask when the McCain campaign had done so.

Playing the race card can either be using race to terminate debate (for example, accusing someone who disagrees with you of racism) or, alternatively, exploiting racial fears (see: McCain's "black baby").

So only the most blatant and cynical use of race qualifies as "playing the race card" in your view?

What about, hypothetically, promising voters of all races that choosing a black president would reduce the feeling of alienation and resentment among minorities?

Probably not the same speech, but I can't see why not.

Has talking about racial issues ever worked out well for a white politician in America? I'm thinking probably not since Abe Lincoln, but feel free to let me know if I've forgotten anyone.

Obama can go out and sound like a champion to some voters and appeal to white liberal guilt in the rest and win across the board.

For McCain to even attempt to speak on this issue, the reaction (regardless of the content of his speech) would have been universal: "WTF does this honky know about it?"

So Barack Obama played the race card without playing the race card. Cos he's black, see.

Good grief, there's no need to be like that.

-k

[JerrySeinfeld]

Yeah, stating a fact is harping.

Stating an irrelevant fact about the past is harping. Were the past two elections extremely close? Yes. Was this one? Yes.

Is your (and other liberals) incessant and irrational need to bring up GW Bush every time someone mentions a potential weakness in your guy just another sign of Bush Derangement Syndrome? Yes.

The fact that this election was close and that Obama won by a slim margin isn't disputable, despite your efforts to distract from the issue by (yawn) bringing up the "evil bush" yet again.

So yes. Bringing up a fact about the past is, in fact, harping.

Given how many prognosticators hereabouts who predicted a McCain win (including you, sunshine), I think that's pretty good.

I never predicted a McCain win. I may have mentioned on here that he still has a chance, that's it.

Yep, netting the highest percentage of the popular vote since Bush I in an election with the highest turnout in a generation is totally child's play.

The highest %-age of popular vote since...the current President? Wow. What an achievement.

Blue ribbons all around!

Obama could ride into the inauguration on the back of a fire breathing unicorn holding Osama bin Ladens bloody, still-beating heart in one hand and billions of dollars in tax cut legislation in the other and you'd still be bitching about him.

No I wouldn't. I like a US with a strong military presence and tax cuts. Unfortunately your scenario is:

1. Ridiculous because you've basically described McCain's campaign promises.

and

2. Ridiculous because that's not Obama's style.

If you changed "ride into the inauguration on the back of a fire breathing unicorn holding Osama bin Ladens bloody, still-beating heart in one hand" into "call up Osama Bin Laden on his iPhone for a meaningless non-precondition meeting over tea and crumpets"

and then changed your "billions of dollars in tax cut legislation" to "billions of dollars in tax INCREASE legislation", you'd be closer to the mark.

In sum, you're basically ridiculous all the way around.

[BubberMiley]

I never predicted a McCain win. I may have mentioned on here that he still has a chance, that's it.

If it's McCain v. Obama, McCain will win hands down.

You were wrong then. And you're still wrong.

[gc1765]

However, it seems to me that his campaign was able to use his race to beneficial effect anyway.

There was an interesting poll from CNN, which says that of those who thought race played an important factor in their vote went for Obama 53-46, while those who said race was not an important factor went for Obama 52-46.

So if you believe that poll, it seems that race neither helped nor hurt Obama.

[Guest American Woman]

If he were Barry Dunham, D-Whiteguy, would he have received the support of 95% of black voters and the large majority of other non-white voters?

Since Al Gore received 90% of the black vote in 2000, the likelihood of Obama receiving 95% of the black vote even if he were white, when a larger percentage of white voters were voting Democrat too, would be quite feasible.

Having said that, can you provide the link to your source stating that Obama received 95% of the black vote?

[GostHacked]

Stating an irrelevant fact about the past is harping. Were the past two elections extremely close? Yes. Was this one? Yes.

lol, which brings me to this.

The fact that this election was close and that Obama won by a slim margin isn't disputable, despite your efforts to distract from the issue by (yawn) bringing up the "evil bush" yet again. So yes. Bringing up a fact about the past is, in fact, harping. I never predicted a McCain win. I may have mentioned on here that he still has a chance, that's it. The highest %-age of popular vote since...the current President? Wow. What an achievement.

Blue ribbons all around!

Bush I, or Bush senior. You know, the guy who was president before Clinton? It is an important fact if you want to talk about harping. At least find out what facts people are harping about in order to tell them what they are harping about.

Edited November 11, 2008 by GostHacked

[M.Dancer]

Having said that, can you provide the link to your source stating that Obama received 95% of the black vote?

The 63 million Obama supporters included descendants of slaves as well as slave owners, and the dramatically expanded turnout starred young voters of all races and featured two-thirds of the Hispanic and 96 percent of the African-American vote. To grasp the enormity of this vote, those Martian observers, and white Americans in denial, must be instructed about race as America's sickness unto death.

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-opp...0,172409.column

[Guest American Woman]

The 63 million Obama supporters included descendants of slaves as well as slave owners, and the dramatically expanded turnout starred young voters of all races and featured two-thirds of the Hispanic and 96 percent of the African-American vote........

I don't want exit poll figures; I'm looking for actual statistics.

[M.Dancer]

I don't want exit poll figures; I'm looking for actual statistics.

Now how would someone go about getting those. Do you think there is a database that counts votes by race?

Since Al Gore received 90% of the black vote in 2000,...

You think that number isn't an exit poll?

[Guest American Woman]

Now how would someone go about getting those. Do you think there is a database that counts votes by race?

So in other words, you're saying that there is no way of knowing how many blacks, ie: what percentage of blacks, actually voted for Obama.