Obama & the Race Card

[August1991]

In an interesting article summarizing a poll commissioned by emily's list on voting intentions of women according to different generations (Y, X, boomers, seniors), I came across this little tidbit:

Obama had the biggest margins among African-American women (91 percent to McCain's 3 percent) and among female college graduates with postgraduate study (64 percent to 29 percent).

US News World Report

So, McCain will get 3% of the female African-American vote while Obama will 91%. That's as near to unanimity as one will ever see in democratic politics. This result mirrors others that I have found including men and from various states.

I can't believe that all of these people are voting for Obama on ideological grounds or because they agree with his policies. I think that it's fair to say that many are choosing Obama on purely racial grounds. It is common but hardly universal for members of a minority to support one of their own if even if they disagree with him or her. But over 90%?

Trudeau got at best around 65% of the French-Canadian vote. The Liberals under Laurier got about 55% of the Quebec vote in 1896.

I suppose any black supporting McCain would be treated as a "traitor" in many circles. I find that sad. I have never felt comfortable with groupthink based on racial lines or indeed any kind of line. Racial groupthink is particularly abhorent.

[BubberMiley]

Racial groupthink is particularly abhorent.

You find it abhorent regardless of that race's history and status in that country? Ideologically, Obama and McCain are both running relatively centrist campaigns (no matter how hard you might try to portray him as a radical Weather Underground member), so differentiating between them ideologically is tough unless you are extremely in favour of tax breaks for the rich or strongly opposed to abortion (in which case, you might as well stay home anyway). The Republicans are even starting to move towards Obama's plan for a timetable of withdrawal in Iraq.

Besides, many feel this is their moment to redraw the demographics of the power structure. To forgo that because of minor ideological differences would be a wasted opportunity.

[Moonlight Graham]

I suppose any black supporting McCain would be treated as a "traitor" in many circles. I find that sad. I have never felt comfortable with groupthink based on racial lines or indeed any kind of line. Racial groupthink is particularly abhorent.

True enough. But after Katrina, i don't blame them at all.

[bush_cheney2004]

True enough. But after Katrina, i don't blame them at all.

Yea, all those dead white people should just vote for Obama!

[BC_chick]

I don't have stats on the following, but I would imagine a pretty high percentage of black women in the U.S. would be voting Democrat anyway, regardless of the race/gender of the candidate. Unfortunately, that doesn't solve the groupthink issue you raise, August, but I still don't see how Obama is the cultprit in this demographic's tendency to vote for his party.

I'm being kind when I say your title is sensationalised. 'Deliberately misleading' or 'somewhat offensive' is probably more accurate.

[August1991]

I don't have stats on the following, but I would imagine a pretty high percentage of black women in the U.S. would be voting Democrat anyway, regardless of the race/gender of the candidate. Unfortunately, that doesn't solve the groupthink issue you raise, August, but I still don't see how Obama is the cultprit in this demographic's tendency to vote for his party.

I'm being kind when I say your title is sensationalised. 'Deliberately misleading' or 'somewhat offensive' is probably more accurate.

I agree that black women tend to vote Democrat but 3%? It was the 3% number for McCain that shocked me. In theory, that means 30 women in a sample of 1000 chose McCain while 910 chose Obama.

I don't have numbers but I think Bush Jnr & Snr got more than 3% of African-American votes and they're more white bread than McCain.

When I see a 3% in a poll, I'm intrigued.

----

Thread title? I suppose it's poorly stated but if I use the simplistic language of "equality", what would happen if a poll reported that 3% of white women chose Obama?

I was highlighting the fact that apparently, a large number of African-Americans are voting along purely racial lines. Does this shock you? Many Quebecers voted for Trudeau because he was a "Quebecer", or at least he had a Quebecois name. To his credit, Trudeau went out of his way to avoid seeking these voters. I wouldn't say the same of Obama but I think that's more a question of his naivety and not any deliberate appeal for votes on jis part.

I suppose the thread title should be changed to "Obama & the Cote of Women". But in all honesty, that would be misleading too. After all, this is a non-PC topic (since it concerns race) that the MSM will only touch in a roundabout way. Sad.

-----

I'll finish with this. Trudeau and Obama share the fact they are of mixed ancestry. Trudeau's mother was an English-speaking Scottish Catholic. Obama's mother was a white woman from Kansas. If the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world, both men use their father's family name to identify themselves when their upbringing was entirely different. Through their mothers, Trudeau was an anglophone and Obama is white.

My mother always says that only when the world is all mixed together, there will be no wars.

Edited August 23, 2008 by August1991

[BC_chick]

I agree that black women tend to vote Democrat but 3%? It was the 3% number for McCain that shocked me. In theory, that means 30 women in a sample of 1000 chose McCain while 910 chose Obama.

I don't have numbers but I think Bush Jnr & Snr got more than 3% of African-American votes and they're more white bread than McCain.

Now we're discussing all African-Americans, not women only. Women tend to be more liberal than men to begin with, here in Canada as well. I am not doubting that more black women and more black men will be voting for Obama than in previous races, but I have an issue with the 3% figure you stated about Obama and the black women vote. Withthout knowing the stats, I would think that no republican candidate has ever garnered more than 10% of the black women voters.

As for the increase - it's only natural. Put any candidate of any ethnicity up there - East Indian, Greek, Asian, you name it, and the same thing would happen.

I was highlighting the fact that apparently, a large number of African-Americans are voting along purely racial lines. Does this shock you? Many Quebecers voted for Trudeau because he was a "Quebecer", or at least he had a Quebecois name. To his credit, Trudeau went out of his way to avoid seeking these voters. I wouldn't say the same of Obama but I think that's more a question of his naivety and not any deliberate appeal for votes on jis part.

I'll finish with this. Trudeau and Obama share the fact they are of mixed ancestry. Trudeau's mother was an English-speaking Scottish Catholic. Obama's mother was a white woman from Kansas. If the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world, both men use their father's family name to identify themselves when their upbringing was entirely different. Through their mothers, Trudeau was an anglophone and Obama is white.

My mother always says that only when the world is all mixed together, there will be no wars.

You're comparing apples with oranges. The French-Canadians already have their voting bloc... it's even CALLED the Bloc Quebecois! Trudeau's votes are coming from the federalist who are not thinking down ethnic lines.

Your comparison would only be fair if you were comparing Obama to Gilles Duceppe....

[HisSelf]

Saw an interesting piece on the BBC yesterday. It related to email campaigns. Somebody had started an email campaign (pass this on to five of your closest friends) claiming that Obama is a Moslem (he is Christian) it featured pictures of a young Obama in his "Madrassa". Interestingly enough, he was grouped with a bunch of other students (high school level) who were girls. This is some Madrassa.

Of course the average reactionary right wing moron does not have the smarts to understand that a girl in a Madrassa pretty well puts the whole thing out in the twilight zone.

The result? 12% of the American electorate now believes that Obama is a Moslem.

[Stephen Best]

Racial groupthink is particularly abhorent.

"Racial groupthink" among whites is likely why McCain is polling neck and neck with Obama. Given their resumes, if Obama were white, McCain would be 20 points back.

[August1991]

"Racial groupthink" among whites is likely why McCain is polling neck and neck with Obama. Given their resumes, if Obama were white, McCain would be 20 points back.

In relative terms, many more "white" people are choosing Obama than "black" people choosing McCain.

As to resumes, what does Obama have on his? Community organizer? He was admitted to Columbia and Harvard Law because of affirmative action. That's curious because he was raised in good, middle class circumstances with white grandparents. Through his parents and grandparents, he has absolutely no experience of the scourge of slavery. His only connection to black Americans is through the colour of his skin.

It is as if someone from France arrived in Canada and suddenly became a popular political figure among French-Canadians. (There's some comparison here - both Pierre Trudeau and Rene Levesque affected an international French accent; Trudeau's was at time European.)

If Obama has a claim to being a member of an oppressed minority (and deserving of affirmative action), it is solely through the colour of his skin because in every other regard, he is as much a Black American as I am. Well, the colour of his skin doesn't seem to stop him from getting the votes of many, many white folks. This rather belies the whole affirmative action theory.

----

The simple fact is that McCain's resume is fuller than Obama's. He's done far more in his life. In McCain, Americans know what they are getting. In Obama, they just don't know but everything indicates that Obama is - in the American context - a radical liberal. Americans don't choose radical liberals or people they don't know to be their president.

[Stephen Best]

He was admitted to Columbia and Harvard Law because of affirmative action.

...

The simple fact is that McCain's resume is fuller than Obama's. He's done far more in his life.

You have no way of knowing how "affirmative action" affected or did not affect Obama's career. You're making a race-based, and racist, assumption that because he's black he benefited from affirmative action. Then again, I may be wrong, and you have some evidence, beyond suspicion and innuendo, that Obama is a product of affirmative action and does not deserve credit for his achievements.

As for McCain's fuller resume, that's only because he's decades older than Obama. McCain is a man of low achievements. If his it wasn't for his father being an admiral, he would not have been admitted to military school, and certainly would not have been allowed to fly. He was -- and he admits it -- a very poor and unreliable officer. As a Senator his career, with a few exceptions, is dismal. He, as you know, was one of the Keating Five. In his personal life, McCain has shown himself to be dishonorable and an opportunist. If it wasn't for his influential Admiral father and his rich wife, he'd be greeting customers at WalMart.

The difference between Obama and McCain is that Obama earned his way to the top, McCain--like Bush--got his through family connections and disreputable behavior. And, then he married a rich woman whose only claim to achievement is she comes from a rich family.

[margrace]

Remember The Cosby Show, well on Oprah, when all the children from the show were her guests, there were several questions. One was about the objections to the show and yes it appears that a lot of people were upset because they believed at that time that there were no middle class black families.

This was not only white people but Black people as well. The answer was that certainly there were people comparable to the people on the show, they just kept a low profile. This show did a lot to help give the young black people of the US something to strive for and the directive was, get an education.

Perhaps this is something that is driving the Obama campaign today, this show said yes you can do it.

[bush_cheney2004]

...This was not only white people but Black people as well. The answer was that certainly there were people comparable to the people on the show, they just kept a low profile. This show did a lot to help give the young black people of the US something to strive for and the directive was, get an education.

Perhaps this is something that is driving the Obama campaign today, this show said yes you can do it.

The middle, upper middle, and upper "class" families of the black variety predate The Cosby Show by many years, in fact and in popular American culture. Indeed, and in keeping with the "theme", CBS's "The Jefferson's" aired fully 10 years before Cosby's show.

So called "people of color" and (millions of poor "whites" for that matter) don't need Obama or television shows to demonstrate anything. The social impact of The Beverly Hillibillies comes to mind.

Edited August 27, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[Black Dog]

As to resumes, what does Obama have on his? Community organizer? He was admitted to Columbia and Harvard Law because of affirmative action. That's curious because he was raised in good, middle class circumstances with white grandparents.

I keep forgetting that affirmative action is only cheating if it's formalized, not when it's the usual class-based kind that allows folks like George W Bush to get ahead in the world. Anyway, do you have any evidence that Obama benefited from affirmative action programs?

The simple fact is that McCain's resume is fuller than Obama's. He's done far more in his life.

That's because he's, like, a kajillion years old.

In Obama, they just don't know but everything indicates that Obama is - in the American context - a radical liberal. Americans don't choose radical liberals or people they don't know to be their president.

So despite what you concede to be a derth of hard information, you're just going to go ahead and assume that Obama's a radical leftist.

[bush_cheney2004]

I keep forgetting that affirmative action is only cheating if it's formalized, not when it's the usual class-based kind that allows folks like George W Bush to get ahead in the world. Anyway, do you have any evidence that Obama benefited from affirmative action programs?

There is ample evidence that "C" student Barack Obama benefitted from AA programs when going from Occidental College to Columbia/Harvard. Obama admits this in his Harvard student newspaper writing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/03/us/polit...agewanted=print

[Stephen Best]

There is ample evidence that "C" student Barack Obama benefitted from AA programs when going from Occidental College to Columbia/Harvard. Obama admits this in his Harvard student newspaper writing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/03/us/polit...agewanted=print

Obama was a "C" student? My understanding he graduated near the top of his class, unlike McCain who was at the bottom of his. What evidence do you have that Obama was a C student?

[bush_cheney2004]

Obama was a "C" student? My understanding he graduated near the top of his class, unlike McCain who was at the bottom of his. What evidence do you have that Obama was a C student?

We don't know for sure...unlike Bush, Gore or McCain, Obama has not released the information (transcripts). There are references to average grades, good grades, etc. in various pieces, but none are substantiated for his short undergrad studies at Occidental College. We know he did well at Columbia and Harvard.

Bush and Gore were "C" students, as was McCain. Kerry was no better, but he got an "A" in Traitor 101.

[M.Dancer]

We don't know for sure...unlike Bush, Gore or McCain, Obama has not released the information (transcripts). There are references to average grades, good grades, etc. in various pieces, but none are substantiated for his short undergrad studies at Occidental College. We know he did well at Columbia and Harvard.

Bush and Gore were "C" students, as was McCain. Kerry was no better, but he got an "A" in Traitor 101.

Obama was a B student in his early post secondary career....

Far from being the brilliant student his image suggests, Obama was a consistently B-grade pupil. He went on to attend Occidental College, a perfectly respectable private liberal arts college in Los Angeles, but hardly an academic powerhouse; its present-day endowment is $377m. He transferred to Columbia University in New York and completed his degree there, and finally graduated with a degree from Harvard Law School at the age of 30. His upwardly mobile ascent had begun, and Obama joined the Chicago law firm of Miner, Barnhill & Galland. He began his professional political career when he stood successfully for the Illinois General Assembly (the state senate) in 1996.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2008/...ote-usa-clinton

[bush_cheney2004]

Obama was a B student in his early post secondary career....

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2008/...ote-usa-clinton

Maybe yes...maybe no....where is the transcript?

[August1991]

We don't know for sure...unlike Bush, Gore or McCain, Obama has not released the information (transcripts). There are references to average grades, good grades, etc. in various pieces, but none are substantiated for his short undergrad studies at Occidental College. We know he did well at Columbia and Harvard.

Bush and Gore were "C" students, as was McCain. Kerry was no better, but he got an "A" in Traitor 101.

Not many people transfer from Occidental to Columbia and not many people with Michelle Obama's (self-proclaimed) background get into Princeton.

Obama gave an interview to Stephanopoulos in which he discussed affirmative action:

In an interview broadcast Sunday on ABC's "This Week," Obama waded into the central issue of the affirmative-action debate: race vs. class. Perhaps typically, Obama's remarks were more Socratic than declarative. He didn't really answer the question, he rephrased it. Maybe the way he posed it, though, will lead to a discussion that's long overdue.

George Stephanopoulos asked Obama if his daughters should be able to benefit from affirmative action when the time comes for them to go to college. The girls "should probably be treated by any admissions officer as folks who are pretty advantaged," Obama said.

Stephanopoulos was driving at the question of whether race-based affirmative-action programs are still needed. Another way to frame the issue is whether race or class is the more important factor in our society. Are minorities raised in middle-class or wealthy homes still held back by racism? Or should we now focus on socioeconomic status as the principal barrier keeping people from reaching their potential?

Obama's answer, basically, was yes. To both questions.

Obama has repeatedly gone on record as a supporter of affirmative action.

Link

I considered this tantamount to an admission that he benefitted from affirmative action. We would only know if we could see his application form to Columbia and Harvard Law. Did he check off the visible minority box or did he leave it blank? (Bear in mind that Obama was raised largely by white grandparents in relatively privileged circumstances. He could possibly claim that the colour of his skin alone put him at a disdvantage.)

This link is suspect but here's what it states:

According to Columbia records, Obama was admitted despite thirteen Whites, seven Asians and six Hispanics having better grades and being more qualified.

According to admissions official Michael McHenry, “We were pressured to have Africans attend our university to get more government funds.” “He (Obama) was obviously unqualified but we needed the funds from the government.”

Some weblog

I keep forgetting that affirmative action is only cheating if it's formalized, not when it's the usual class-based kind that allows folks like George W Bush to get ahead in the world. Anyway, do you have any evidence that Obama benefited from affirmative action programs?

That's the oldest contrary argument in the book. Do two "wrongs" make a right?

Here's one idea BD. If you take away inherited wealth, if you remove what a parent can give to a child, you remove the fundamental link in what we call life. Parents want to pass on many things to their children. The State trifles with this at its peril.

I like the idea of a meritocracy but above all, I prefer a civilized society.

-----

What are we debating here anway? Obama benefitted (IMV) from affirmative action. He has said that he supports the policy and it's legal in the US. Both Columbia and Harvard Law use affirmative action in selecting candidates. It is as if we were arguing about Obama reducing his income tax by claiming a child tax credit for his two kids.

Stephen Best accused me of being a racist because I suggested that Obama took advantage of affirmative action. Well, some posters are OTT and leftists do have a tendency to bully. If he calls me a racist, can I call him a bigot because he no doubt drew his conclusion from my city?

Edited August 29, 2008 by August1991

[bush_cheney2004]

What are we debating here anway? Obama benefitted (IMV) from affirmative action. He has said that he supports the policy and it's legal in the US. Both Columbia and Harvard Law use affirmative action in selecting candidates. It is as if we were arguing about Obama reducing his income tax by claiming a child tax credit for his two kids.

This is a reasonable conclusion based on the timeframe in question. I think Obama would be more forthcoming about his academic records if not...but that's OK.

Stephen Best accused me of being a racist because I suggested that Obama took advantage of affirmative action. Well, some posters are OTT and leftists do have a tendency to bully. If he calls me a racist, can I call him a bigot because he no doubt drew his conclusion from my city?

Sure...anybody who screams "racist" doesn't have much of an argument.

[M.Dancer]

Well, some posters are OTT and leftists do have a tendency to bully. If he calls me a racist, can I call him a bigot because he no doubt drew his conclusion from my city?

What's OTT?

[bush_cheney2004]

What's OTT?

Off The Topic?

[Black Dog]

That's the oldest contrary argument in the book. Do two "wrongs" make a right?

Here's one idea BD. If you take away inherited wealth, if you remove what a parent can give to a child, you remove the fundamental link in what we call life. Parents want to pass on many things to their children. A government trifles with this at its peril.

I like the idea of a meritocracy but I prefer a civilized society above all.

I'm going to parse this down as best I can.

Do two "wrongs" make a right?

Pointing out the hypocricy involved in rejecting one form of institutionalized discrimination that promotes advancement on factors other than merit while tacitly accepting another is a mere observation on my part.

Here's one idea BD. If you take away inherited wealth, if you remove what a parent can give to a child, you remove the fundamental link in what we call life. Parents want to pass on many things to their children. A government trifles with this at its peril.

Look, if you sneer about people who benefit from formal A.A.-type programs (people who, by and large are disadvantaged to begin with) you should save a breath or two for the scions of privilege who are able to climb the ladder thanks to daddy's name and money.

I like the idea of a meritocracy but I prefer a civilized society above all

Like the two are mutually exclusive?

Edited August 28, 2008 by Black Dog

[moderateamericain]

Im voting for Mcain. Simple to me. Experience, Served his country (as far as im concerned that should be a qualification for public office barring physical disability), Intelligent, And I like his voting record. You can disagree with me all you want, but come election day, thats who my vote is going to.