Gas prices

[eyeball]

If people are starving now, what is going to happen when grocery bills double or triple.

People will die and demand will go down, prices will soon follow. Isn't this the way its supposed to work?

[WarBicycle]

Comfortable, good performing, more efficient cars are possible. A good example is the Mercedes E320 diesel. It's rated at 31 MPG city, 46 highway compared to 23 MPG city, 32 highway for the E300 gas and it's faster. Expect to see a lot more of this kind of thing in the future.

I live in an area where General Motors is the major employer, I'm not about to show up at a client's house with a foreign made car.

[eyeball]

I live in an area where General Motors is the major employer, I'm not about to show up at a client's house with a foreign made car.

Economic correctness...go figure.

[Wilber]

I live in an area where General Motors is the major employer, I'm not about to show up at a client's house with a foreign made car.

I hear you. My point is the Mercedes is just an example of what we can expect to see from many manufacturers.

[Topaz]

Forget the cars, babybooomers are buying motorcycle for cheaper transportation. Some of those bikes are real loud and when you get alot of them like the 13th of the month when they go to Port Burwell, its as loud as a Lancaster flying over! I also think maybe some people with boats will be selling and buying bikes or maybe renting out theirs boats.

[Wilber]

Forget the cars, babybooomers are buying motorcycle for cheaper transportation. Some of those bikes are real loud and when you get alot of them like the 13th of the month when they go to Port Burwell, its as loud as a Lancaster flying over! I also think maybe some people with boats will be selling and buying bikes or maybe renting out theirs boats.

Harleys and Gold Wings aren't cheap. Like a lot of things, they are buying them because they wanted one when they were young but couldn't afford it. Don't know many people who ride bikes 365, even here in lotus land.

[Topaz]

A friend of mine told me today that he heard on the news that GM is telling the oil& gas companies that if the gas prices don't come down to reasonable prices then they will only produce cars that DON"T run on gas. I suppose the only group that could hurt the oil and gas is the auto makers by making cars that don't need gas.

[Alta4ever]

A friend of mine told me today that he heard on the news that GM is telling the oil& gas companies that if the gas prices don't come down to reasonable prices then they will only produce cars that DON"T run on gas. I suppose the only group that could hurt the oil and gas is the auto makers by making cars that don't need gas.

Right....They spend the billions to re-tool plants when they are already in economic hot water. I can just here the president of general motors....Get me encana I want to tell them they're charging to much for oil and people don't want to buy our vehicles.

The problem is that the all the green techonlogy that Al gore wants the refineries to use, the added costs are being passed on to the consumer. Not to mention all the bloated salaries that the trade unions demand for consuction of new refineries, of which there has been little to none of in the past 40 years as a result. We haven't hit peak oil either there are huge discoveries being made every day like the one of the coast of Brazil. (thought to have reserves almost as large as Canada's).

This isn't the fault of the Oil Companies it is the fault of the feel good policy coming from the Statists, who don't take the time to think about the consequences of their actions.

There was a reason for all the bread lines in the USSR and it had something to do with too much centeralized government regulation and control.

[oreodontist]

A friend of mine told me today that he heard on the news that GM is telling the oil& gas companies that if the gas prices don't come down to reasonable prices then they will only produce cars that DON"T run on gas. I suppose the only group that could hurt the oil and gas is the auto makers by making cars that don't need gas.

"A friend ofmine told me that...."

A friend of mine once told me there is an Easter Bunny.

[WIP]

A friend of mine told me today that he heard on the news that GM is telling the oil& gas companies that if the gas prices don't come down to reasonable prices then they will only produce cars that DON"T run on gas. I suppose the only group that could hurt the oil and gas is the auto makers by making cars that don't need gas.

That sounds like a good news story to me! It was the Highway Lobby tag team of automakers and oil companies that demanded state subsidized highway construction so that they could drive the railways (both freight and passenger) virtually out of business, since the railway companies have to pay the costs of building and maintaining their tracks.

Since the oil is not going to last forever regardless, I would rather see high prices now to provide the needed market incentives to begin a serious move to alternative energy sources. And inspite of all of the blunders made by Ontario Hydro's nuclear program, I would add the building of new nuclear power stations to the list since the third and fourth generation of nuclear generating systems are safe and produce almost no leftover nuclear wastes. Solar and wind generating systems are improving rapidly, but for the immediate future, especially the increased demand for electricity that will come from a switch to electric, hybrid, or possible hydrogen-powered cars, they are all going to require cheap, available electricity as the original source of energy.

[madmax]

Forget the cars, babybooomers are buying motorcycle for cheaper transportation. Some of those bikes are real loud and when you get alot of them like the 13th of the month when they go to Port Burwell, its as loud as a Lancaster flying over! I also think maybe some people with boats will be selling and buying bikes or maybe renting out theirs boats.

Do you mean the 13th in Port Dover? Or is there something I am missing in Burwell

I have been a biker all my life. I started riding because they were more affordable, for insurance and gas when I was young. Would ride virtually all year, if possible. Looks like at $1.24ltr I may be going back to my youth, and park the 4 wheeler unless it snows

[madmax]

Harleys and Gold Wings aren't cheap. Like a lot of things, they are buying them because they wanted one when they were young but couldn't afford it. Don't know many people who ride bikes 365, even here in lotus land.

Harleys and Gold Wings aren't cheap. But you can find used GoldWings of any era for a reasonable price. Harleys have fallen roughly $5,000 less in the used market from a high a few years back when the demand was outstripping supply.

But there are all other forms of two motorcycles that aren't either of those. Be it other Japanese, bikes or European bikes. Stay away from the Chinese stuff, as it is hard to believe that these clone bikes, which look like their parts are completely interchangeable with earlier Japanese models, are of such poor quality, they are completely disposable. Better to buy a 20 year old bike then one of those grenades.

Yes, few people ride year round, very few. But Man vacationing in Canada on a Motorcycle is such a pleasure, be it east coast or west and all the parts in between. ANd riding to work, makes going there and coming back all the better.

[Rue]

We all know what the problem is and what the solution is. We just don't want to deal with the obvious.

The obvious is, it is unrealistic to think any citizen should believe they have an unlimited right to natural resources and the consumption thereof -we all know that but we are sure as hell not going to do anything about lowering our expectations and consumer habits until we have no choice. Its human nature-its called complacency.

Revolt? You think anyone in the suburbs with their suv's are going to revolt? Look around. All our highways are choked with l person alone in a car driving. Everyone does it. Car pooling? This isn't Cuba where the government has a guy flag you down and order the public into your car until tis filled right up.

Energy efficient vehicles hah. How do you make money off of that? Build a large vehicle so it can break down and gurggle gas. Its good economics. Its all about the short term profit gain.

Revolt? Can you see people walking, using a bike, the bus, or car pooling? They could. Nothing has stopped anyone from doing it. People won't because they do not yet feel forced to.

We have grown up believing its our right to drive everywhere. Pur suburbs are designed for cares not people. The entire facade of the suburbs assumes the parking lot first, then everything else.

Mass transit? Hah.

Revolutions don't start simply because people are angry they can't continue to be lazy jack-asses. Revolutions don't start because of negativity. What you really are talking about is group hysteria.

Revolutionary thinking is supposed to be positive not negative. Its not supposed to be a tantrum on a collective level. Its simply supposed to be innovative and something easy anyone can do and makes them feel good-that's what makes it catch on.

Revolutionary thought is as simple as walking to the corner store instead of driving.

Unfortunately what we are talking about are self-destructive habits that have arisen from years of rampant consumerism we think we are hooked on and can not do without.

Is it any different then someone hooked on cigarettes or booze or big macs? No.

But you can't address a problem unless you admit you have one. We do not think we have a problem. We believe the government has a problem. Its not us on an individual level. is the government, or the greedy capitalist oil consortiums, etc. Its always someone else who created the problem and who we blame.

Me I look at my own fat ass and walk and take a bike as much as I can now. It may seem like sweet f..all but its a start. Yes I drive my bike to work and try take mass transit. No I am not righteous. I am still a polluting jack ass and a fat head and feel the best way to deal with this is on an individual level. I can control my own actions. Others, I doubt I can control.

If and when there are rations and there will be, we can buy horses. The Amish got it figured out.

[sharkman]

That's all well and good, but the UN strategy is to allow certain favoured nations the right to pollute to their heart's content. This will NOT be offset by the G8 and other enlightened nations greatly reducing their carbon footprints! Besides, these nations have already made great strides in reducing emissions. I know it's far from perfect, but we have come a long way.

But it won't matter as long as China and a dozen other countries are making their air unbreathable.

[August1991]

We all know what the problem is and what the solution is. We just don't want to deal with the obvious.

The obvious is, it is unrealistic to think any citizen should believe they have an unlimited right to natural resources and the consumption thereof -we all know that but we are sure as hell not going to do anything about lowering our expectations and consumer habits until we have no choice. Its human nature-its called complacency.

Oh c'mon, rue. This isnt the revolution yet.

The price goes up, the price goes down. I doubt the world price will stay at $120 for a long time. In 1980, it was at $100 and then fell to $10.

In general, as a rough measure, if you take the world price, divide by 100 and then add about 25 cents, you'll get the Canadian price per litre. In Europe, gasoline sells for around $3.50 per litre and Europeans may be more socialist but the sky hasn't collapsed.

IOW, give more credit to the price mechanism. It's doing what it is designed to do and it takes time to go from the short run to the long run.

That's all well and good, but the UN strategy is to allow certain favoured nations the right to pollute to their heart's content. This will NOT be offset by the G8 and other enlightened nations greatly reducing their carbon footprints! Besides, these nations have already made great strides in reducing emissions. I know it's far from perfect, but we have come a long way.

But it won't matter as long as China and a dozen other countries are making their air unbreathable.

Most of the pollution is local and harms the people who choose to live there. It's like peeing in your own bath.

If people prefer, they move to a jurisdiction/place where things are cleaner. (And please don't tell me that poor people can't afford to move. The essence of poverty is a lack of choices and you don't give people more choices by telling them what to do.)

Edited April 24, 2008 by August1991

[Wild Bill]

We all know what the problem is and what the solution is. We just don't want to deal with the obvious.

Revolt? You think anyone in the suburbs with their suv's are going to revolt? Look around. All our highways are choked with l person alone in a car driving. Everyone does it. Car pooling? This isn't Cuba where the government has a guy flag you down and order the public into your car until tis filled right up.

Energy efficient vehicles hah. How do you make money off of that? Build a large vehicle so it can break down and gurggle gas. Its good economics. Its all about the short term profit gain.

Revolt? Can you see people walking, using a bike, the bus, or car pooling? They could. Nothing has stopped anyone from doing it. People won't because they do not yet feel forced to.

Mass transit? Hah.

Revolutionary thinking is supposed to be positive not negative. Its not supposed to be a tantrum on a collective level. Its simply supposed to be innovative and something easy anyone can do and makes them feel good-that's what makes it catch on.

Revolutionary thought is as simple as walking to the corner store instead of driving.

Me I look at my own fat ass and walk and take a bike as much as I can now. It may seem like sweet f..all but its a start. Yes I drive my bike to work and try take mass transit. No I am not righteous. I am still a polluting jack ass and a fat head and feel the best way to deal with this is on an individual level. I can control my own actions. Others, I doubt I can control.

If and when there are rations and there will be, we can buy horses. The Amish got it figured out.

Rue, I respectfully disagree. When you say "yet feel forced to" it kinda scares me. Those are the words that pressure groups use with politicians to justify negative reinforcement methods like increased energy taxes to FORCE people into "greeener" behaviour".

As I had written, mass transit simply sucks in my town. I cannot spare 3 hours a day and more walking than riding as a valid option to 15 minutes in my car. I cannot envision carrying the family's weekly groceries on a bike, especially in the rain or the winter.

We don't need the government forcing us onto bicycles. Higher and higher energy prices do that all by themselves. My impression is not that people will just grudgingly adjust and eventually feel proud of themselves. Rather, I think people are getting more and more enraged!

Most of us feel that gas companies are hosing us and governments are corrupt and inept. We're getting collectively more and more pissed! We're time-poor and more and more stressed.

I'm worried that people are going to start going postal!

[eyeball]

Most of us feel that gas companies are hosing us and governments are corrupt and inept.

...and that these are not just some mere coincidence.

In the meantime.

The price of gas will surge to $1.40 this summer and more than $2.25 by 2012 as oil supplies continue to deplete, a Canadian economist projected Thursday.

Jeff Rubin

"Whether we have already seen the peak in world oil production remains to be seen, but it is increasingly clear that the outlook for oil supply signals a period of unprecedented scarcity,"

We should definitely question the wisdom of selling our legacy abroad for short-term gain. I'd rather conserve our oil for Canadians now and future generations of Canadians. I bet its what our ancestors would have wanted us to do and I bet our descendants will be proud of us for accomplishing this.

Edited April 25, 2008 by eyeball

[oreodontist]

I'm enjoying this price boom. Sure, I paid an extra $2.25 or so on gas last week but our mutual funds gained over $3,000 and our share of the Aberta take on higher prices is multiples higher than any difference in gas prices.

win/win. The environment is a winner as folks become more energy aware... and the TSE increases value because of energy and related stocks....and Albertans rake in an additional 6 billion or so on top of what's being raked in now. All in all 'good stuff'.

[White Doors]

...and that these are not just some mere coincidence.

In the meantime.

We should definitely question the wisdom of selling our legacy abroad for short-term gain. I'd rather conserve our oil for Canadians now and future generations of Canadians. I bet its what our ancestors would have wanted us to do and I bet our descendants will be proud of us for accomplishing this.

And the best way to conserve it is to let it be priced by world standards. It will encourage innovation in other fields as it becomes more expensive.

You want conservation AND cheap prices.... Why is it that left wingers always swim against the current?

[eyeball]

And the best way to conserve it is to let it be priced by world standards

What about conserving our economy and living standards? As I mentined in another thread the price for gasoline in Saudi Arabia is about 30 odd cents a litre. The standard in that oil producing nation is to use your good fortune to keep prices low and provide some benefit to your citizens.

It will encourage innovation in other fields as it becomes more expensive.

I think benefiting our citizens would be a very innovating thing to do.

You want conservation AND cheap prices.... Why is it that left wingers always swim against the current?

We can still gouge our customers the way other oil producers do, and use the profits to develop new energy sources... Why is it that right-wingers always have to do things the hard way?

[Wilber]

You want conservation AND cheap prices.... Why is it that left wingers always swim against the current?

The dilemma of the left. Our provincial NDP is agreeing with the necessity of a carbon tax out of one side of their mouth while bleating about the government not doing anything about high prices out of the other side. Bottom line, high prices are OK as long as the money is going into government coffers.

[oreodontist]

What about conserving our economy and living standards? As I mentined in another thread the price for gasoline in Saudi Arabia is about 30 odd cents a litre. The standard in that oil producing nation is to use your good fortune to keep prices low and provide some benefit to your citizens.

Saudi Arabia,Venezuela, Nigeria cheap gas and positives models?

Two othernet producers, Norway and the UK have pump prices much higher than Canada. I've never been to Venezuela or Nigeria but have been to Saudi Arabia....trust me, you'd fine living quality infinitely better in Norway and the UK. Venezuela? Nigeria?....ya sure real 'shining examples'

[marcinmoka]

What gives anyway? Back in the 1970's a small car would get 50-60 miles per gallon (Chevette Scooter, Honda Civic,Toyota Tercel for examples) but now they tell us that 30mpg is grrreat.

Answer: Simple. Consumer preferences. People want more room, more gadgets, more everything. All this means more weight, which in turn needs more power. So while engines are far more efficient per unit of power output, people either want or need more of this power. A modern 4 Cyl produces as much power as many V8's from the 70's, yet consumes significantly less fuel. Whereas if you want to re-create that spartan, cramped feeling you felt in your 79' Civic, you could opt for a Smart FourTwo, and even than, you would have much better performance while getting 1.5 - 2 x the fuel efficiency.

*As per your 50-60 mpg, where? I'm quite sure that the Chevette of yesteryear was still in the 20's, though I would love for you to prove me wrong.

[Wild Bill]

Answer: Simple. Consumer preferences. People want more room, more gadgets, more everything. All this means more weight, which in turn needs more power. So while engines are far more efficient per unit of power output, people either want or need more of this power. A modern 4 Cyl produces as much power as many V8's from the 70's, yet consumes significantly less fuel. Whereas if you want to re-create that spartan, cramped feeling you felt in your 79' Civic, you could opt for a Smart FourTwo, and even than, you would have much better performance while getting 1.5 - 2 x the fuel efficiency.

*As per your 50-60 mpg, where? I'm quite sure that the Chevette of yesteryear was still in the 20's, though I would love for you to prove me wrong.

I vividly remember the Chevette. It didn't get anywhere near that kind of mileage! It was lucky to get 20 miles to the gallon and was totally gutless. If memory serves it only ran to 40 hp.

Now the imports you mentioned were a different story! They indeed ran to 30 mph or more, with a lot more power. It appeared that the American car companies just couldn't figure out how to build a good 4 cylinder engine. The Chevette appeared to have a 283 V8 sawn in half to make it a four cylinder! The VW rabbit blew rings around it!

[M.Dancer]

What gives anyway? Back in the 1970's a small car would get 50-60 miles per gallon (Chevette Scooter, Honda Civic,Toyota Tercel for examples) but now they tell us that 30mpg is grrreat.

The Tercel didnt start production till 1984 and its MPG was no more than 36 miles per gal. Highway.

The Civic appeared in 73. It's MPG was around 40 miles per gal Highway

The Chevette scooter appeared in 1976 and got 30 miles-per-gallon city and 39 highway, more if it was towed.