POLL: Regarding Muslim population in Canada

[MightyAC]

Betsy is discussing a disgusting idea…so what it’s just discussion. What bothers me is the fact that so many religious folk have no problem blasting other sects while simultaneously overlooking their own faults. Let’s discuss that for a moment.

How many Canadians have been attacked by terrorists on Canadian soil? Now, how many Canadians children have been attacked by Christian preachers? Who should be interned, monitored or segregated?

I think a lot of the Islam bashing stems from Christian insecurity. Islam is the fastest growing major religion. That has to scare some faith leaders. Now that empire building seems to be a thing of the past a religion can no longer be as easily forced on people around the world. Religion now has to be built by convincing people to join or brainwashing our young early on. I would guess the latter is much more effective though, which is a problem. The areas of the world that are still churning out human beings at an alarming rate tend not to be primarily Christian. I can see why many conservative Christians are opposed to immigration and multiculturalism.

If Betsy, et al. could only have their way we’d have a beautiful segregated utopia. Christian, white, heteros wouldn’t have to mix with those dirty coloured folk or those degenerate gays or those who worship an obviously fake god. We just need some big walls built eh Betsy?

[Leafless]

Betsy,

Internment had happened before....and since it did, I don't think there's anything wrong in discussing that premise.

I guess it's not 'wrong' to discuss anything. But surely you realize that what you're suggesting is revolting to a great many people, and would never be implemented.

Is this a lame attempt to censor free speech?

Are you actually suggesting suspected Arab Muslims should never be considered to be rounded up up and interned in the event of of Islamic based terrorist attacks?

Our federal government previously had plans to intern certain Canadians in the past and why would you ever assume suspected Arab Muslims would not be rounded up in the event of Arab Muslim terrorist attacks.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...edc&k=16908

[margrace]

Islam has always been a powerful force in the world. A see saw fight has seen them in much more control world wide than they are now. What goes around comes around and we might just see a more powerful Islam coming back to where it was in the middle ages.

As for the Japaness, the main reason for putting them in camps, on the prairies in mid winter, was the seizier of their properties which they never were given back. It was the biggest case of robbery in Canada except for the Native peoples.

[betsy]

Certain ideas are shocking to some - this would be one of them.

Shocking may be. Or disturbing. But, discussing it shouldn't be suppressed.

[betsy]

Again, let me remind you....this is only a what-if scenario. I stressed that! On the title topic...and on my very first post.

And I would like to remind you again that the what-if scenario states that "numerous attacks had happened, and a state of emergency was declared." I don't know the state of alertness or emergencies we follow in Canada...but I am thinking of something that is similar to a war state situation....or situations that could induce the declaration of let's say, martial law. This is just pure assumption.

This topic was partly inspired by the internment that happened to the Japanese. That was uglyy. No doubt about that. But it did happen! So we have a precedent. And having had a precedent....it could therefore happen again...or it may not.

Notice that I stressed the importance of not confiscating properties and possessions....for that was one of the main injustice that happened to the Japanese. I also stressed that the Japanese were ALL AUTOMATICALLY looked upon as enemies! Which I find very wrong.

The reason for the internment should have been for the SAFETY of ALL! ESPECIALLY, the Japanese people!

[Michael Hardner]

Is this a lame attempt to censor free speech?

Are you actually suggesting suspected Arab Muslims should never be considered to be rounded up up and interned in the event of of Islamic based terrorist attacks?

Our federal government previously had plans to intern certain Canadians in the past and why would you ever assume suspected Arab Muslims would not be rounded up in the event of Arab Muslim terrorist attacks.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...edc&k=16908

Leafless - it's unclear from your post if you're referring to Arab Muslims suspected of criminal activity, or merely people suspected of being Arab Muslims.

But it did happen! So we have a precedent. And having had a precedent....it could therefore happen again...or it may not.

Betsy,

That makes no sense. Anything could happen, and many things have happened but that has no bearing on whether a proposal is reasonable or not. The term 'precedent' is usually used to discuss legal decisions that changed the law, not usually to discussed mistakes in history.

And, yes, there's no reason to not discuss anything.

[normanchateau]

I think I'll start a new topic poll:

"If Canada experiences several (hundred) child rapes by Catholic Priests, should we round up all Catholic priests and castrate them?"

You get off my topic!

If you can't keep from giving an unconstructive and trolling opinion...or prevent yourself from being childish...then butt out of here! Don't trash my topic!

OK, let's replace Gerry's question with a potentially more salient one:

"If there were a series of reported incidents of sexual abuse of Canadian children by Muslim preachers, should we round up ALL Muslim preachers in Canada?"

[M.Dancer]

We have had no other experience like the Japanese interment during the Japanese wars.

Wow...what passes these days........

No. No experiance like the japanese wars.........No internment of Italians (during the italian wars?)...no internment of Ukranians (...uke wars?)....no internment of Germans........

amazing how most of us have learned a thing or two since 1945......and how amazing some have not.

[betsy]

We have had no other experience like the Japanese interment during the Japanese wars.

Wow...what passes these days........

No. No experiance like the japanese wars.........No internment of Italians (during the italian wars?)...no internment of Ukranians (...uke wars?)....no internment of Germans........

amazing how most of us have learned a thing or two since 1945......and how amazing some have not.

In Canada? I didn't know that....

[M.Dancer]

I was at a hospital the other day..I swear i saw several muslim looking interns......one was a cute as a button! About 5'2" and the most gorgeous almond shaped eyes.....

I say we need more cute muslim interns!

[normanchateau]

I was at a hospital the other day..I swear i saw several muslim looking interns......one was a cute as a button! About 5'2" and the most gorgeous almond shaped eyes.....

I say we need more cute muslim interns!

How do you know she was a Muslim? Was she wearing a burqa?

[M.Dancer]

I was at a hospital the other day..I swear i saw several muslim looking interns......one was a cute as a button! About 5'2" and the most gorgeous almond shaped eyes.....

I say we need more cute muslim interns!

How do you know she was a Muslim? Was she wearing a burqa?

I could be wrong but Doctor Ghazala Khan didn't sound like an anabaptist.......and no, she was wearing a lab coat

[Leafless]

Leafless - it's unclear from your post if you're referring to Arab Muslims suspected of criminal activity, or merely people suspected of being Arab Muslims.

This of course would be at the discretion of federal government.

No one currently knows what level of severity Canadians would be exposed to or the duration or continuation, concerning an Islamic terrorist attack or attacks.

Normally speaking if such a word is applicable in a situation like this Arab Muslims suspected of criminal activity probably would be primarily targeted.

[Michael Hardner]

Leafless -

Here's your post:

Are you actually suggesting suspected Arab Muslims should never be considered to be rounded up up and interned in the event of of Islamic based terrorist attacks?

Internment camps based on religion is a bad idea in my books.

Do you think that arresting people solely on the basis of their 'suspected religion' is a good idea ?

That is, Italians, and swarthy types could be arrested based on how they look ?

I answered your question, now you answer mine.

[kimmy]

But I have to comment on the knee-jerk reaction by some. Why do I have the feeling that for some, this topic should be a taboo? What happened to the Japanese was sad, unjust and a big shame. Because of how they were treated and how it applied. They were all automatically treated like enemies!

And a mass internment of Canada's Muslims would be different somehow?

If that's not automatically treating them like enemies, then what is it?

Japanese-Canadians should not have been looked upon as enemies just because they came from Japan. The interment should've been viewed as a safe haven...disruptive to their lives, yes....but still a haven nevertheless.

There's a remarkable parallel between your line of reasoning and the Taliban's logic for making women dress in tents and stay indoors. "We're not oppressing them, we're protecting them!" How helpful.

-k

[kimmy]

Hey, I've got an idea! How about instead of mass internments, we just continue to let our police and intelligence communities do their jobs? That seems to be working pretty well.

Did anybody notice that in the famous Toronto terror plot, informants came forward from within the Muslim community? Did anybody notice that Canada's best known and most controversial Muslim cleric, Aly Hindy, was among those who had been in correspondence with the RCMP about some of the suspects prior to the arrests?

The only real way to resolve this, short of mass deportations, is to have the cooperation of Canada's Muslim community. It seems to be coming along slowly... so why alienate them now?

-k

[Canadian Blue]

I wouldn't support any internment policy regardless of the situation. We as a nation shouldn't deny people's rights simply due to paranoia of the general public.

I'm surprised were even having this debate, especially with our experience of what happened in World War 2.

[blueblood]

Internment is bad, Canadian citizens should not be interred for anything, look at what happened throughout history, look at residential schools, just leave them alone. If something did happen, I'd say shut the door, no immigrants, no foreigners outside of North America, they should pay not Canadian citizens

[betsy]

We know that terrorists in other countries like the Hezbollah deliberately hide among their own civilians. And from one of the recent news account (can't remember if it was Lebanon, Iraq or Afghanistan), some civilians were forced to stay in town to provide cover...or to be used as shields....knowing that perhaps the international community will apply the expected pressure on the attacking nation from bombing. The civilians were prevented from leaving or evacuating.

It may seem laughable and ridiculous to say that internment does not have to mean the interned group are automatically enemies....and that it is more for their own safety.

If the scenario that I've assumed above, that due to numerous terrorists attacks Canada had declared a state of emergency, is it a stretch of the imagination how some people may react?

We had seen hostile reactions recently following a few incidents as a knee-jerk reaction (right after 9/11, several Muslims were interviewed on tv and had complaint of harrassment), isolated incidents of vandalism.

What more if there is a real major disaster and state of emergency?

Since we know the terrorists' modus operandi of hiding among Muslim civilians....suspicion will fall on every civilians.

You can call it paranoia or islamophobia....but it will be a natural reaction for the people (non-Muslims) who feel threatened.

Besides, how do you protect a Muslim moderate from being forced by the radicals to be the "cover"...or the "shield." I don't think many moderate Muslims would voluntarily come forward and report about it...perhaps not out of loyalty to the radical element....but out of fear.

Right now we know that one big obstacle the law enforcers are facing among ethnic groups...is that most ethnic groups do not want to "rat" on their own. Is it because of lack of trust towards the cops?....or fear of retaliation?...a cultural code?...who knows.

The moderates will be caught in the middle. They will become sitting ducks.

Thus I say, internment should not be looked upon as an acknowledgemnt that the interned group are enemies. It should not be phrased as "being arrested!" That was what was wrong about the Japanese internment imho. Everyone treated them like enemies.

My scenario looked too dire....and too dark. It's a scenario of all hell breaking loose in our society.

But it seems the world is coming apart. When you hear of the intifada happening in France....something that you usually and normally read about far-flung countries in Africa or somewhere that no one knows about...but it is happening in a country like France! An old nation like France. A democratic society like France.

And we know that we are on the list.

Of course I can''t help but wonder and have these what-if thoughts.

[normanchateau]

It may seem laughable and ridiculous to say that internment does not have to mean the interned group are automatically enemies....and that it is more for their own safety.

When Dachau opened in 1933, internees and their relatives were told that they were there "for their own safety".

[Argus]

OK, let's replace Gerry's question with a potentially more salient one:

"If there were a series of reported incidents of sexual abuse of Canadian children by Muslim preachers, should we round up ALL Muslim preachers in Canada?"

That would depend, would it not, on whether the sexual abuse by Muslim preachers was extraordinarily high as compared to the general population. One can say, for example, at least in jurisdictions which record such things, that the rate of violent crime among Blacks is considerably higher than among Whites. Can one say the same about Muslims? Certainly the rate of terorrism seems considerably higher.

[Argus]

I wouldn't support any internment policy regardless of the situation. We as a nation shouldn't deny people's rights simply due to paranoia of the general public.

I'm surprised were even having this debate, especially with our experience of what happened in World War 2.

Has anyone actually argued in favour of it?

On the other hand, I have seen opinions of what could happen on a larger scale if Muslim terrorist attacks were to grow to become a real world-wide danger, and expand to include many more deaths. That is, if the WTC became a once in a month thing rather than once in a decade, if bio attacks and dirty nuke bombs becames part of their arsenal, etc. etc. The suggestion has been that rather than Muslims being interned here, the entire Muslim world would be, in a word, interned, surrounded by a kind of cordon sanitaire which would prohibit travel between there and anywhere else. It might not have to involve the entire Muslim world, but certainly the middle east, North Africa and Pakistan, which seem to be where all our external terrorists are coming from.

[M.Dancer]

Has anyone actually argued in favour of it?

On the other hand, I have seen opinions of

Aside from Betsy?

Thus I say, internment should not be looked upon as an acknowledgemnt that the interned group are enemies. It should not be phrased as "being arrested!" That was what was wrong about the Japanese internment imho. Everyone treated them like enemies.

[normanchateau]

OK, let's replace Gerry's question with a potentially more salient one:

"If there were a series of reported incidents of sexual abuse of Canadian children by Muslim preachers, should we round up ALL Muslim preachers in Canada?"

That would depend, would it not, on whether the sexual abuse by Muslim preachers was extraordinarily high as compared to the general population.

Let's suppose it were extraordinarily high. Would that justify rounding up ALL Muslim preachers?

[Leafless]

Leafless -

Here's your post:

Are you actually suggesting suspected Arab Muslims should never be considered to be rounded up up and interned in the event of of Islamic based terrorist attacks?

Internment camps based on religion is a bad idea in my books.

Do you think that arresting people solely on the basis of their 'suspected religion' is a good idea ?

That is, Italians, and swarthy types could be arrested based on how they look ?

I answered your question, now you answer mine.

Who is talking about internment camps based on religion.

We are talking about internment camps based on horrific acts of violence directed to the general population of Canada and in this instance caused by Arab Muslim terrorism.

It seems you are trying to justify religion, in this instance, believers of Islam as a justifiable EXCUSE for acts of terrorism without authorities assuming direct action to curb their violence including the use of internment camps.