Israel

[jacee]

Israel and Hamas to Consider Cease-Fire in Gaza?

Israel is recognized as a UN member state though it hasn't committed to definition of state borders.

Palestine is a UN 'observer state'.

Hamas is on board with that.

Cease fire and ... cool off ... and talk.

I hope there can be a new conversation.

About how the (defacto) two state solution can work.

[jacee]

Egypt launches initiative to halt Israel-Palestinian conflict

[Boges]

Why do we need another thread about this?

Also you're linking stories from 2 days ago. Hamas rejected the ceasefire proposal.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

Merging this topic ...

[Michael Hardner]

"Israel and Palestine" thread merged into this one

[Boges]

That's some good modding there.

[Black Dog]

Thought this was a good piece on the conflict.

The French philosopher Ernest Renan once defined a nation as “a group of people united by a mistaken view about the past and a hatred of their neighbors.” And while that arguably applies to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, my sense is that the deterioration we are witnessing results from something else — the growing human distance between Israelis and Palestinians who once knew each other intimately and are now virtual strangers.

The change has taken place over the past 10 to 15 years because it was widely felt that mixing caused trouble and the two peoples needed to be separated if they were ever to live side by side. A result, however, has been a heightened dehumanization that has allowed the murder of four teenagers to escalate in just a few days into a series of devastating Israeli airstrikes that have killed scores and Palestinian rocket attacks that have displaced thousands.

[Boges]

Why does this thread still exist if we're all posting about the issue in the other thread?

[BC_chick]

Oh wow, I had the last word before this thread got buried 7 years ago? SEVEN years ago?! Oh some of the old posters, I miss reading their posts. Jdobbin, if you still read this forum, hello! Hope you're well.

Some things never change though. Israel is still ahem 'defending itself' by declaring everyone in Gaza Hamas. Just like everyone in Lebanon was Hezbollah last round.

[Hal 9000]

As far as Hamas is concerned, a woman's sole purpose in life is to raise future jihadists.

[jacee]

As far as Hamas is concerned, a woman's sole purpose in life is to raise future jihadists.

Cite?

.

[Hal 9000]

Cite?

.

I don't seem to have ability to link. Just check out their charter, it's all there large as life. I think if people read this document beginning to end, they'll come to realize exactly what they (Hamas) want and why Israel (or the west) can't just come to a settlement with these people.

I don't know if you have kids, but if you do and you are living in Gaza, you'd be expected to raise your son to die for the cause.

[Topaz]

As far as Hamas is concerned, a woman's sole purpose in life is to raise future jihadists.

That's not fair, you are group ALL into one purpose and besides that ALL countries encourage their young people to join the military and serve and the militaries do kill also, so what's the difference?

[Guest]

He might be referring to the Hamas Charter:

Article Eighteen
The women in the house and the family of Jihad fighters, whether they are mothers or sisters, carry out the most important duty of caring for the home and raising the children upon the moral concepts and values which derive from Islam; and of educating their sons to observe the religious injunctions in preparation for the duty of Jihad awaiting them.

Saner members of Hamas have said some parts of the charter no longer apply. I don't know if the above still does. Probably.

Edited July 19, 2014 by bcsapper

[Guest]

That's not fair, you are group ALL into one purpose and besides that ALL countries encourage their young people to join the military and serve and the militaries do kill also, so what's the difference?

I have to say, I don't remember that bit from when I was growing up. Maybe I had gone to the washroom or something.

[jacee]

I don't seem to have ability to link. Just check out their charter, it's all there large as life. I think if people read this document beginning to end, they'll come to realize exactly what they (Hamas) want and why Israel (or the west) can't just come to a settlement with these people.

I don't know if you have kids, but if you do and you are living in Gaza, you'd be expected to raise your son to die for the cause.

That would be true anywhere there's a constant state of war.

Hamas represents people in Gaza and the West Bank who were displaced from their homes and land when Israel when it was formed in 1948. They are still passionate about returning to their homeland.

Gaza is a tiny strip of land with Israel exercising strict and punitive border control and controlling their water supply too.

This week they are bombarded from both sides - land and sea - captive ... nowhere to run to safety.

It's the kind of oppressive situation that creates extremism ... and always will.

.

[Hal 9000]

That would be true anywhere there's a constant state of war.

Hamas represents people in Gaza and the West Bank who were displaced from their homes and land when Israel when it was formed in 1948. They are still passionate about returning to their homeland.

Gaza is a tiny strip of land with Israel exercising strict and punitive border control and controlling their water supply too.

This week they are bombarded from both sides - land and sea - captive ... nowhere to run to safety.

It's the kind of oppressive situation that creates extremism ... and always will.

.

Oh, so Islam, Extremists, the Koran and Jihadists are a new development - brought on by Israel? Sorry, my bad!

[Shady]

Hamas represents people in Gaza and the West Bank who were displaced from their homes and land when Israel when it was formed in 1948. .

That's completely and utterly inaccurate.

[jacee]

He might be referring to the Hamas Charter:

Article Eighteen

The women in the house and the family of Jihad fighters, whether they are mothers or sisters, carry out the most important duty of caring for the home and raising the children upon the moral concepts and values which derive from Islam; and of educating their sons to observe the religious injunctions in preparation for the duty of Jihad awaiting them.

Saner members of Hamas have said some parts of the charter no longer apply. I don't know if the above still does. Probably.

.

Let's just be clear that Jihad isn't always 'war against infidels', though that extremism exists.

It is often, as in Gaza, a struggle for freedom from oppression.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

Jihad means "to struggle in the way of Allah". Jihad appears 41 times in the Quran and frequently in the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of God (al-jihad fi sabil Allah)".

...

There are two commonly accepted meanings of jihad: an inner spiritual struggle and an outer physical struggle.[3] The "greater jihad" is the inner struggle by a believer to fulfill his religious duties.[3][7] This non-violent meaning is stressed by both Muslim[8] and non-Muslim[9]authors. However, there is consensus amongst Islamic scholars that the concept of jihad will always include armed struggle against persecution and oppression.[10]The "lesser jihad" is the physical struggle against the enemies of Islam.

Edited July 19, 2014 by jacee

[Hal 9000]

.

Let's just be clear that Jihad isn't always 'war against infidels', though that extremism exists.

It is often, as in Gaza, a struggle for freedom from oppression.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

Jihad means "to struggle in the way of Allah". Jihad appears 41 times in the Quran and frequently in the idiomatic expression "striving in the way of God (al-jihad fi sabil Allah)".

...

There are two commonly accepted meanings of jihad: an inner spiritual struggle and an outer physical struggle.[3] The "greater jihad" is the inner struggle by a believer to fulfill his religious duties.[3][7] This non-violent meaning is stressed by both Muslim[8] and non-Muslim[9]authors. However, there is consensus amongst Islamic scholars that the concept of jihad will always include armed struggle against persecution and oppression.[10]The "lesser jihad" is the physical struggle against the enemies of Islam.

Ok, so you checked Wiki. So, now it's about interpretation.

"The "greater jihad" is the inner struggle by a believer to fulfill his religious duties."

What this means is the struggle for a Muslam to accept his place and duties of giving himself and his family to Allah - meaning "prepare to give your life for your belief". Which should speak for itself.

"The "lesser jihad" is the physical struggle against the enemies of Islam."

So, after you come to terms with your inner struggle, now it's time to prove yourself.

Now, to get Hamas (and their ideas of Jihad) into context, you need to read their charter

P.S - I'm really shocked that you (and well, every woman) focus on Jihad and put no thought into how Hamas (and most Muslims) treat their women and girls.

PPS - This situation isn't about freedom from oppression. This is a group that Arabs designate a terrorist group. It takes an IQ of about 65 to see that Hamas couldn't care less about their people.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Hal 9000

[Big Guy]

It is as interesting seeing Christians interpreting the Quran as it is seeing the Muslims interpreting the Bible.

[iolo]

Murderous Nazi regimes tend to the corrupt, everywhere, especially when financed the the US.

[Guest]

I don't think Hamas is funded by the US. There might be money coming from Muslim groups in the US, but it certainly isn't US foreign policy.

[Hal 9000]

It is as interesting seeing Christians interpreting the Quran as it is seeing the Muslims interpreting the Bible.

I'm not interpreting anything (unless you're talking about Jacee). I'm just pointing out what should be - and is obvious.

If you people want to interpret Jihad (or any part of it) as loving or spiritual and pretend that they are like Buddhists or something, you're totally wrong.

[Michael Hardner]

Why does this thread still exist if we're all posting about the issue in the other thread?

Somebody started a new thread for general issues - so I merged it into the existing thread.