eyeball Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Why would ICE be more gentle with "family" members who are in the U.S. illegally Because the crime they're committing is neither extreme nor prejudiced. It should be treated no more seriously than a misdemeanor. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Because the crime they're committing is neither extreme nor prejudiced. It should be treated no more seriously than a misdemeanor. Doesn't matter....actual American citizens are subjected to such treatment every day in the United States. Detentions are often not gentle, especially when officers are resisted. What's so special about the treatment of illegals in this regard ? Why do they run and resist at a job-site raid or street arrest by ICE ? Shouldn't they be more..."gentle" /s ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Barquentine Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 18 hours ago, User said: What is upsetting is that folks like you let the illegal immigrants go, even after catching them committing crimes, rather than working with ICE to deport them, because you want this lawlessness, even if it results in murdered and raped citizens. Try dealing with reality. For a long time, the US economy has depended on cheap migrant labour, both documented and un- documented. Did you notice how shortly after Trump started this ICE barrage, they stopped going after agricultural and manufacturing businesses? Who else is going to pick the lettuce for your Fatburgers, and since manufacturing has fallen every month since Trump got in, they can't afford to lose any more. If you could make every un-documented worker disappear tomorrow , you'd have an economic disaster. The American economy needs them. But don't take my word for it: https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/mobilizing-against-inequality/post/five-ways-undocumented-immigrants-are-powering-american-economy Five ways immigrants are powering the American economy 1. Agriculture Undocumented workers make up 25% of all farm workers in the US. The majority of these workers are overworked and put in at least 10 hours of work per day in arduous conditions to feed American families. 2. Building, grounds-keeping, and maintenance Undocumented workers make up 19% of maintenance workers. These laborers tend to work on low wages for 12-hr shifts, often 7 days a week. 3. Construction 17% of US construction workers are undocumented 4. Food preparation & serving 12% of workers in this occupation are undocumented 5. Taxes Undocumented immigrants pay billions of dollars in taxes annually. Households headed by unauthorized immigrants paid $10.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2010. This includes $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.2 billion in property taxes, and more than $8 billion in sales and excise taxes. Immigrants—even legal immigrants—are barred from most social services, meaning that they pay to support benefits they cannot even receive. From the US Gov't: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG-119-JU01-20250122-SD004.pdf The Texas Department of Public Safety estimated the rate at which undocumented immigrants are arrested for committing crimes. The study found that undocumented immigrants are arrested at less than half the rate of native-born U.S. citizens for violent and drug crimes and a quarter the rate of native-born citizens for property crimes. Sadly, I know you and your ilk won't let facts get in your way. You'll invent 'Alternate Facts'. Quote
Nationalist Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 10 minutes ago, Barquentine said: Try dealing with reality. For a long time, the US economy has depended on cheap migrant labour, both documented and un- documented. Did you notice how shortly after Trump started this ICE barrage, they stopped going after agricultural and manufacturing businesses? Who else is going to pick the lettuce for your Fatburgers, and since manufacturing has fallen every month since Trump got in, they can't afford to lose any more. If you could make every un-documented worker disappear tomorrow , you'd have an economic disaster. The American economy needs them. But don't take my word for it: https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/mobilizing-against-inequality/post/five-ways-undocumented-immigrants-are-powering-american-economy Five ways immigrants are powering the American economy 1. Agriculture Undocumented workers make up 25% of all farm workers in the US. The majority of these workers are overworked and put in at least 10 hours of work per day in arduous conditions to feed American families. 2. Building, grounds-keeping, and maintenance Undocumented workers make up 19% of maintenance workers. These laborers tend to work on low wages for 12-hr shifts, often 7 days a week. 3. Construction 17% of US construction workers are undocumented 4. Food preparation & serving 12% of workers in this occupation are undocumented 5. Taxes Undocumented immigrants pay billions of dollars in taxes annually. Households headed by unauthorized immigrants paid $10.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2010. This includes $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.2 billion in property taxes, and more than $8 billion in sales and excise taxes. Immigrants—even legal immigrants—are barred from most social services, meaning that they pay to support benefits they cannot even receive. From the US Gov't: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG-119-JU01-20250122-SD004.pdf The Texas Department of Public Safety estimated the rate at which undocumented immigrants are arrested for committing crimes. The study found that undocumented immigrants are arrested at less than half the rate of native-born U.S. citizens for violent and drug crimes and a quarter the rate of native-born citizens for property crimes. Sadly, I know you and your ilk won't let facts get in your way. You'll invent 'Alternate Facts'. Another slaver. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Barquentine Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 On 1/9/2026 at 2:07 PM, Nationalist said: If some citizen stays home from work because said person is afraid of ICE agents, I'd suggest that person's resistance be investigated. Resistance? Investigated? So now US citizens should fear their government too? You want to live in a police state. I was talking about immigrants, documented and undocumented. In case you missed this: Try dealing with reality. For a long time, the US economy has depended on cheap migrant labour, both documented and un- documented. Did you notice how shortly after Trump started this ICE barrage, they stopped going after agricultural and manufacturing businesses? Who else is going to pick the lettuce for your Fatburgers, and since manufacturing has fallen every month since Trump got in, they can't afford to lose any more. If you could make every un-documented worker disappear tomorrow , you'd have an economic disaster. The American economy needs them. But don't take my word for it: https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/mobilizing-against-inequality/post/five-ways-undocumented-immigrants-are-powering-american-economy Five ways immigrants are powering the American economy 1. Agriculture Undocumented workers make up 25% of all farm workers in the US. The majority of these workers are overworked and put in at least 10 hours of work per day in arduous conditions to feed American families. 2. Building, grounds-keeping, and maintenance Undocumented workers make up 19% of maintenance workers. These laborers tend to work on low wages for 12-hr shifts, often 7 days a week. 3. Construction 17% of US construction workers are undocumented 4. Food preparation & serving 12% of workers in this occupation are undocumented 5. Taxes Undocumented immigrants pay billions of dollars in taxes annually. Households headed by unauthorized immigrants paid $10.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2010. This includes $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.2 billion in property taxes, and more than $8 billion in sales and excise taxes. Immigrants—even legal immigrants—are barred from most social services, meaning that they pay to support benefits they cannot even receive. From the US Gov't: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG-119-JU01-20250122-SD004.pdf The Texas Department of Public Safety estimated the rate at which undocumented immigrants are arrested for committing crimes. The study found that undocumented immigrants are arrested at less than half the rate of native-born U.S. citizens for violent and drug crimes and a quarter the rate of native-born citizens for property crimes. Sadly, I know you and your ilk won't let facts get in your way. You'll invent 'Alternate Facts'. 1 Quote
Barquentine Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Comfort as a vice. A world that elevates the sins of gluttony and sloth to virtues. Not how I would define comfort. Maybe you're talking about avarice? Quote
West Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 8 hours ago, eyeball said: No, I have no issue with ICE going after these. The only reason you would imagine I wouldn't is because someone lit you up with gas. Because they often execute these warrants against families with the same sort of extreme prejudice usually reserved for organized child sex traffickers. The fact this is what you MAGA arseholes want them to do makes it especially offensive that they do. They're an absolute disgrace. It's no wonder they wear masks, their mothers would be ashamed of them. You all use the excuse they are fleeing from dictatorships yet cried when Maduro had his ass handed to him by the Marines and now stands trial. Quote
Nationalist Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 14 minutes ago, Barquentine said: Resistance? Investigated? So now US citizens should fear their government too? You want to live in a police state. I was talking about immigrants, documented and undocumented. In case you missed this: Try dealing with reality. For a long time, the US economy has depended on cheap migrant labour, both documented and un- documented. Did you notice how shortly after Trump started this ICE barrage, they stopped going after agricultural and manufacturing businesses? Who else is going to pick the lettuce for your Fatburgers, and since manufacturing has fallen every month since Trump got in, they can't afford to lose any more. If you could make every un-documented worker disappear tomorrow , you'd have an economic disaster. The American economy needs them. But don't take my word for it: https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/mobilizing-against-inequality/post/five-ways-undocumented-immigrants-are-powering-american-economy Five ways immigrants are powering the American economy 1. Agriculture Undocumented workers make up 25% of all farm workers in the US. The majority of these workers are overworked and put in at least 10 hours of work per day in arduous conditions to feed American families. 2. Building, grounds-keeping, and maintenance Undocumented workers make up 19% of maintenance workers. These laborers tend to work on low wages for 12-hr shifts, often 7 days a week. 3. Construction 17% of US construction workers are undocumented 4. Food preparation & serving 12% of workers in this occupation are undocumented 5. Taxes Undocumented immigrants pay billions of dollars in taxes annually. Households headed by unauthorized immigrants paid $10.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2010. This includes $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.2 billion in property taxes, and more than $8 billion in sales and excise taxes. Immigrants—even legal immigrants—are barred from most social services, meaning that they pay to support benefits they cannot even receive. From the US Gov't: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/JU/JU01/20250122/117827/HHRG-119-JU01-20250122-SD004.pdf The Texas Department of Public Safety estimated the rate at which undocumented immigrants are arrested for committing crimes. The study found that undocumented immigrants are arrested at less than half the rate of native-born U.S. citizens for violent and drug crimes and a quarter the rate of native-born citizens for property crimes. Sadly, I know you and your ilk won't let facts get in your way. You'll invent 'Alternate Facts'. As I said...you're a slaver. Do you wear a white sheet too? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Barquentine Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 1 minute ago, Nationalist said: As I said...you're a slaver. Do you wear a white sheet too? WTF are you babbling about? Quote
Nationalist Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 Just now, Barquentine said: WTF are you babbling about? 18 minutes ago, Barquentine said: For a long time, the US economy has depended on cheap migrant labour, both documented and un- documented. You are in support of slave labor. Thus...you are a "slaver". Good Libbie. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Barquentine Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 6 minutes ago, Nationalist said: You are in support of slave labor. Thus...you are a "slaver". Good Libbie. Hey, I support your freedom to say stoopid things. The minimum wage in Mississippi for 2025 is $7.25 per hour, which is the federal minimum wage Slavers? Good rightwinger. Baa Baa... Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 38 minutes ago, Barquentine said: Not how I would define comfort. Maybe you're talking about avarice? Possibly Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
West Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 (edited) 10 hours ago, blackbird said: "The scapegoating of ethnic... There you have it.. the focus of the Minnesota raids were "criminal illegal aliens" and they've arrested dozens of "murderers, child rapists, traffickers" who are being harbored in Minnesota Edited January 11 by West Quote
blackbird Posted January 11 Author Report Posted January 11 8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Not sure what you mean...felony warrants are executed with the same "prejudice" even against citizens absent sex offenses. Police stop citizens every day with hands on detentions, chemical agents, searches, physical restraints, etc. Why would ICE be more gentle with "family" members who are in the U.S. illegally, committed crimes, and/or ignored removal orders from a court? This is not strictly about arresting suspected criminals. "The scapegoating of ethnic and religious minorities is well-tread historical ground in the United States, and immigrants have always made for an easy target. Chinese,1 Irish,2 Italian,3 Muslim,4 Mexican5 — all these people and more have been falsely accused of bringing crime into the United States, particularly during times of economic or political unease." 1 minute ago, West said: There you have it.. the focus of the Minnesota raids were "criminals" and they've arrested dozens of "murderers, child rapists, traffickers" who are being harbored in Minnesota I doubt it. Most are likely not criminals. It has been the history of the U.S. to blame immigrants for all the crime. That's just the way American politics works. Quote
Nationalist Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 35 minutes ago, Barquentine said: Hey, I support your freedom to say stoopid things. The minimum wage in Mississippi for 2025 is $7.25 per hour, which is the federal minimum wage Slavers? Good rightwinger. Baa Baa... But I do not support your desire to have slaves. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
West Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 (edited) 11 minutes ago, blackbird said: This is not strictly about arresting suspected criminals. "The scapegoating of ethnic and religious minorities is well-tread historical ground in the United States, and immigrants have always made for an easy target. Chinese,1 Irish,2 Italian,3 Muslim,4 Mexican5 — all these people and more have been falsely accused of bringing crime into the United States, particularly during times of economic or political unease." I doubt it. Most are likely not criminals. It has been the history of the U.S. to blame immigrants for all the crime. That's just the way American politics works. I don't have any reason to believe Secretary Noem is lying. The statistics you are likely referring to, from what I gather, lumped in under O Biden individuals turned away at the border by border security with the important work ICE does to extract foreign money launderers, sex traffickers, violent criminals, rapists etc from the country. Not that I don't disagree with follow the law and getting a work permit if you choose to move to another country. I know people who go about it the right way and shouldn't be punished due to following the law. It certainly DOES NOT excuse harassing ICE officers and pointing a 4000 ton vehicle at them and hitting the gas peddle nor does it excuse woke politicians and activists calling for physical harm and murder to officers Edited January 11 by West Quote
User Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 3 hours ago, Barquentine said: Try dealing with reality. I did. The reality is that people like you support this open borders madness. So much so that you would see criminal Illegal Immigrants released back onto the streets, where they will rape and murder Americans rather than deport them. 2 hours ago, blackbird said: This is not strictly about arresting suspected criminals. So what? The point remains that you are still so adamant on supporting open borders madness, you would see actual convicted criminals let go back on the streets where they continue to harm Americans, rape, and murder. Quote
User Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 2 hours ago, Barquentine said: Hey, I support your freedom to say stoopid things. The minimum wage in Mississippi for 2025 is $7.25 per hour, which is the federal minimum wage Slavers? Good rightwinger. Baa Baa... And how many people actually make that wage? Very few. You folks on the left have no grasp on reality and think that just because the minimum wage is 7.25 an hour, that is literally what everyone is getting paid. Those are entry-level jobs or mostly restaurant servers who get paid the minimum, but in reality make much more after tips. Quote
eyeball Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 9 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: ....actual American citizens are subjected to such treatment every day in the United States. It shows too. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 4 hours ago, West said: You all use the excuse they are fleeing from dictatorships yet cried when Maduro had his ass handed to him by the Marines and now stands trial. Yup, took me a whole box of Kleenex to get over it. So unfair. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
blackbird Posted January 11 Author Report Posted January 11 (edited) 4 hours ago, User said: 6 hours ago, blackbird said: This is not strictly about arresting suspected criminals. So what? The point remains that you are still so adamant on supporting open borders madness, you would see actual convicted criminals let go back on the streets where they continue to harm Americans, rape, and murder. False again. I wasn't even referring to convicted criminals or real criminals. The great majority of undocumented migrants and migrants that had papers, and now being arrested by ICE are not convicted criminals. I posted the article showing how a large percentage of migrants are not criminals and the statistics show just as many U.S. citizens commit crimes as migrants. But the migrants are being blamed and this has always been a political tool in the U.S. It is a popular thing to blame migrants for all the problems and always has been. Politicians do this because it is an easy thing to sell. Edited January 11 by blackbird Quote
West Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 (edited) 7 hours ago, blackbird said: This is not strictly about arresting suspected criminals. "The scapegoating of ethnic and religious minorities is well-tread historical ground in the United States, and immigrants have always made for an easy target. Chinese,1 Irish,2 Italian,3 Muslim,4 Mexican5 — all these people and more have been falsely accused of bringing crime into the United States, particularly during times of economic or political unease." I doubt it. Most are likely not criminals. It has been the history of the U.S. to blame immigrants for all the crime. That's just the way American politics works. The issue is multifaceted. Drug supply is overwhelmingly coming from central and south America. There are also other public policy issues, like how importing 1% of your population from abroad will impact your systems ie medical care and education. Leftists want to recklessly throw open the borders without any thought on how this will contribute to overpriced homes, resources drain to schools, and how continually importing people will overrun your emergency rooms. We see the collapse of Healthcare and education here as an example. This isnt to "blame" people necessarily but shows how little regard policymakers have for how these decisions will impact the broader society. I have no issues with brown people per se provider they aren't overrunning our ERs with issues related to selling drugs, abiding by immigration laws, and are contributing to not eroding society, aren't murdering people, or committing heinous sex crimes against kids Edited January 11 by West 1 Quote
User Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 1 hour ago, blackbird said: False again. I wasn't even referring to convicted criminals or real criminals. The great majority of undocumented migrants and migrants that had papers, and now being arrested by ICE are not convicted criminals. I posted the article showing how a large percentage of migrants are not criminals and the statistics show just as many U.S. citizens commit crimes as migrants. But the migrants are being blamed and this has always been a political tool in the U.S. It is a popular thing to blame migrants for all the problems and always has been. Politicians do this because it is an easy thing to sell. Not false at all, you are still doing it right now. You were presented evidence of how many really bad criminals were being arrested to be deported becuase they were also Illegal Immigrants and you keep making excuses and turning the discussion to how the majority of illegal immigrants are not crinimals like that. Again... so what? This is who ICE is out arresting and you are here arguing against that and condemning ICE. It doesn't matter if the rest of the illegal immigrants are engaged in such awful crimes or not THEY ARE STILL HERE ILLEGALLY. That is still breaking the law and the remedy to that is deporting them. Period. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 15 hours ago, blackbird said: This is not strictly about arresting suspected criminals. ...I doubt it. Most are likely not criminals. It has been the history of the U.S. to blame immigrants for all the crime. That's just the way American politics works. Not all the crime...illegal immigrant arrest and detention methods by ICE has been applicable to American citizens and legal residents for a very long time...and they clearly commit more total crimes than illegals. I don't understand why we are supposed to shed tears for the illegals just because ICE is rounding them up using identical methods. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 9 hours ago, blackbird said: ... Politicians do this because it is an easy thing to sell. Politicians blame many different groups, not just illegals. George H. W. Bush famously scored points against Gov. Mike Dukakis with so called Willy Horton ads scaring people about soft on crime policies by Dukakis and Democrats. Willy Horton (African American felon) is not an immigrant. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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