Why is Ireland so anti-Israel? What could possibly be the purpose or reason?

[Moonlight Graham]

12 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Ashkenazi Jews are generally of mixed ancestry with a large European component on the maternal side. The local Arab speakers are also of mixed ancestry, partly Canaanite. They tend to be genetically distinct from peninsular Arabs. 

Jews descended from Canaanites.  Canaanites didn't exist anymore in region when the Arabs invaded and conquered Palestine in the 7th century CE.  They'd been gone as an ethnic group for 1500 years lol.  What you're saying is that Palestinian Arabs have some mixed Jewish ancestry, given that's largely who lived in Palestine when Arabs conquered it.

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 12/15/2025 at 9:43 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

Jews descended from Canaanites.  Canaanites didn't exist anymore in region when the Arabs invaded and conquered Palestine in the 7th century CE.  They'd been gone as an ethnic group for 1500 years lol.  What you're saying is that Palestinian Arabs have some mixed Jewish ancestry, given that's largely who lived in Palestine when Arabs conquered it.

One reason the term Canaanite is used by researchers is because the archeological remains being compared to modern Israelis and Palestinians are often from an era that predates monotheism which is a relatively recent phenomenon in human history. It would appear that most Jews, Christians and Muslims in the region have a connection to the polytheistic Canaanite population that existed before monotheistic Yahwism arose that gave rise to Judaism and Samaritanism. Much later, some of these Jews converted to Christianity and Islam. So, yes, many Palestinians probably have partly Jewish origins. Of course, Canaanites would have been around for many, many thousands of years in the region before monotheism arose. 

Like most of us, Jewish people have mixed ethnic origins. For example, Ashkenazi Jews have a strong European signal in their ethnicity, especially on the maternal side. Every Israeli PM but one had at least some ancestors from the Russian Empire or was born there. Palestinian Christians and Muslims also have Peninsular Arab, African and European signals among other components. 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[eyeball]

55 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Every Israeli PM but one had at least some ancestors from the Russian Empire or was born there.

Is it just me or is there something about the Russians that make them prone to being difficult to get along with?

If so I bet the lack of democracy and the preponderance of authoritarianism in their history might explain it.

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Is it just me or is there something about the Russians that make them prone to being difficult to get along with?

If so I bet the lack of democracy and the preponderance of authoritarianism in their history might explain it.

Yes. They seem stuck in a 19th century time warp. 

[I am Groot]

On 12/14/2025 at 7:32 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

What I do ask is that we remember how this situation has arisen. Russia attacked its Jewish population on the false basis of being behind the assassination of the Tsar and Britain refused to take them into Britain after 1905 but granted them another refuge in a part of the world they had just invaded, Palestine, without consulting the existing population. 

Britain didn't 'invade' Palestine. The Ottoman Empire ruled it until it shattered after joining the wrong side in WW1. The League of Nations appointed the British and French to take control of parts of their former empire.

The 'local population' was about 700k, many of them nomadic Berbers who drifted back and forth through that entire area (Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon, Transjordan, Syria). There was no self-government then, nor had there ever been unless you go all the way back to the kingdom of Israel.

[SpankyMcFarland]

10 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Britain didn't 'invade' Palestine. The Ottoman Empire ruled it until it shattered after joining the wrong side in WW1. The League of Nations appointed the British and French to take control of parts of their former empire.

The 'local population' was about 700k, many of them nomadic Berbers who drifted back and forth through that entire area (Egypt, Palestine, Lebanon, Transjordan, Syria). There was no self-government then, nor had there ever been unless you go all the way back to the kingdom of Israel.

WWI was for the most part a war of empires with very few good guys. British forces arrived in Palestine and took it by force of arms, a large-scale military entry into the Ottoman Empire. I don’t know how that’s not an invasion. At the time, Britain was obsessed with protecting the Suez Canal and access to a faster route to India. The League of Nations was set up by the winning empires. They took what they liked from the losing empires and also set up independent states, but not in their own empires. Those regions would have to wait, eg Ireland, India, Africa, America. No self-determination for them in Wilson’s grand schemes even though his own family hailed from Ireland. Some fairly impressive hypocrisy there. 

Britain chose to open Palestine’s borders to a tsunami of European immigration that was bitterly resisted by Palestinians. A flood of migrants on that scale was always going to be highly disruptive as it was in Ireland over the centuries of British rule. The Ottomans had also permitted too much immigration in the preceding fifty years. When the Arabs rose up the British crushed their revolt. What a betrayal of trust by a power put in charge of a territory. Nobody would blame Jewish refugees fleeing pogroms and later far worse for seeking a safe haven but it was too much for one quiet colonial backwater to take. To go back to the original question, in Palestine the Irish see a story with some parallels to their own.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[eyeball]

On 12/12/2025 at 11:56 AM, John Stone said:

I think when ur focusing on the 'Palestinians' and recently Gaza tho  you need to focus more broadly - ie, what are Irelands 'wants' regionally (ME)  to be part of a quid pro quo supporting the Palestinians at least in terms of rhetoric. Hacks are basically political whores - esp the leaders who have the power to negotiate. 

It looks to me, like so many other countries, that Ireland simply wants to express its opinion that Israels dispossession, subjugation and oppression of Palestinians is wrong and it needs to stop and there needs to be a two state solution to the conflict.

Personally however I like Einstein's vision of two nations within a single state much better.

This scenario would smartly nip fears of an arms race between two countries in the bud.

Ironically I somehow doubt this is something Ireland would be very enthused with but that's okay too.

[John Stone]

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

It looks to me, like so many other countries, that Ireland simply wants to express its opinion that Israels dispossession, subjugation and oppression of Palestinians is wrong and it needs to stop and there needs to be a two state solution to the conflict.

Personally however I like Einstein's vision of two nations within a single state much better.

This scenario would smartly nip fears of an arms race between two countries in the bud.

Ironically I somehow doubt this is something Ireland would be very enthused with but that's okay too.

Ireland, even today, is not United .............. that struggle has  been  going on since  1921. 

Two events have made the two-state solution very unlikely - Oct 7th and the election of Donald Trump.

To even revisit that possibility would likely depend on (2) events - Elections in Israel and the United States. 

I believe that Netanyahu was like the perfect (and correct) storm, post Oct 7th - he is no less a villain than Winston Churchill, Bomber Harris, Curtis LeMay. ........... TRUMAN! 

Although Netanyahu likely has territorial designs, his security concerns are very valid. 

A (2) state solution when the Gaza territory has proven to be a threat and open to outside influence (Iran)

Madness. 

Netanyahu has basically given the middle finger to the World, and for good reason ............ and  Trump supports him. 

I agree with both of 'em. 

Oh, yeah ................... the Jews have nucs, we should be grateful the Iranian nuc program has been  temporarily deterred. 

This Palestinian thing is faaaaaaaaaaaar greater than simply a (2) state solution

 

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, John Stone said:

Two events have made the two-state solution very unlikely - Oct 7th and the election of Donald Trump.

Yitzhak Rabins assassination had more to do with preventing the likelihood of the 2-state solution than anything.

October 7's are inevitable...so was Trump too really - I reckon he's been a symptom in waiting for a couple of decades now.

If the Bigley Global Recession / Depression that Trump is engineering turns into an outright interregnum, support for Israel will dry up because it'll be completely unsustainable and it will be on its own. You'd think a people with such a long deep view of their past would have a better inkling of what the future likely holds.

 

Before they're reduced to fighting with sticks and stones they'll launch everything they have in a last ditch bid for survival.

[suds]

On 12/12/2025 at 4:07 PM, I am Groot said:

The Palestinians want an Islamic state under Sharia law, and to destroy Israel.

That's what Hamas wants and not necessarily all Palestinians. The struggle between Jews and Palestinians began in the mid 1800's as a conflict between Zionism and Palestinian Nationalism. In the 1900's as more Arab countries got involved, it turned into a conflict between Zionism and Pan-Arab Nationalism. Since then, Hamas has turned it into a conflict between Zionism and Islamism. Or as a poster had mentioned in another thread .... 'a conflict of winner take all'.  The Jews see it as 'promised land' while Hamas sees all of Palestine as conquered land that must remain Islamic until the day of resurrection. Israel isn't going anywhere, and there will never be anything resembling peace until Hamas is gone. It's all in the Hamas Covenant.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, suds said:

The Jews see it as 'promised land' while Hamas sees all of Palestine as conquered land that must remain Islamic until the day of resurrection.

Don't forget the Christian whack-a-doodles trying to shoulder their End of Days up to the front of the line.

[John Stone]

19 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yitzhak Rabins assassination had more to do with preventing the likelihood of the 2-state solution than anything.

October 7's are inevitable...so was Trump too really - I reckon he's been a symptom in waiting for a couple of decades now.

If the Bigley Global Recession / Depression that Trump is engineering turns into an outright interregnum, support for Israel will dry up because it'll be completely unsustainable and it will be on its own. You'd think a people with such a long deep view of their past would have a better inkling of what the future likely holds.

 

Before they're reduced to fighting with sticks and stones they'll launch everything they have in a last ditch bid for survival.

RE: support for Israel will dry up because it'll be completely unsustainable and it will be on its own.

Suppose it could be argued that Israel has  always  been on its own - economic aide and U.N. cover notwithstanding.

The reality is that  Israel has transitioned from a fledgling nation-state to a significant player on the global stage.

Its strategic location combined with its robust economy and military prowess positions it as a critical ally and formidable force in international politics. 

Strategic location and  ideology are likely the key reasons Israel is crucial to U.S. global strategy. It sits afront of one of the least defended and most strategic regions on the planet.

Above all else, Israel is a global player, as you insinuated, powerful does not adequately describe its military capability

There is some argument that the U.S. supported Zionism in some part due to the strong American diaspora and the clout they wield in domestic politics. 

Could there ever be a jewish president tho.................. maybe, but he/she would be a Dem.

Israel is not going  anywhere - as long  as  energy remains the crucible - they will be a World strategic player. 

[I am Groot]

17 hours ago, suds said:

That's what Hamas wants and not necessarily all Palestinians.

No, that's what Palestinians want. That's why they elected them in the first place. That's what they promised. It's what the Arabs wanted in 1948 when they invaded. It's what they've wanted in every war since then. It's what the Arabs in Jordan and Syria, and Egypt want too.

17 hours ago, suds said:

The struggle between Jews and Palestinians began in the mid 1800's as a conflict between Zionism and Palestinian Nationalism.

Muslims have been killing Jews by the wagonload as far back as there have been Muslims. Islam itself is extremely nationalistic in that Muslims are taught they are superior to all others, and that all others are a threat that must be tamed or destroyed. There was no such thing as Palestinian nationalism. If you called an Arab a Palestinian in the 1800s he'd have punched you in the face.

17 hours ago, suds said:

 The Jews see it as 'promised land' while Hamas sees all of Palestine as conquered land that must remain Islamic until the day of resurrection.

Jordan is technically Palestine. It's not conquered. And Palestine has never been a country so it has never inspired nationalism. Muslims see the entire world as conquered except for the part they live in, and believe they must reconquer it all, starting with Israel, yes, but then moving on to everything else. You can find Muslim imams from the UK, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, and the US on Youtube saying as much, that they and Islam will conquer this land and all will be ruled by Sharia.

17 hours ago, suds said:

Israel isn't going anywhere, and there will never be anything resembling peace until Hamas is gone. It's all in the Hamas Covenant.

Hamas is a tool of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is operating now in all Western countries, including Canada. Their stated aim is to spread Islam everywhere, by force if necessary, by outbreeding the Kafirs if not. Half the school age population (and sometimes half the population) in major Western cities like Vienna and Amsterdam are now Muslim. Their Muslim populations are quite young while native populations are much older and not having many children.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, John Stone said:

Israel is not going  anywhere - as long  as  energy remains the crucible - they will be a World strategic player. 

In the meantime much of the world is trying to move away from fossil fuels. Like I said its the deep future that Israel should really be concerned about, especially when not if the support Israel receives from abroad simply becomes unsustainable.

It's not a matter of Israel going away but the world.

[suds]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Muslims have been killing Jews by the wagonload as far back as there have been Muslims. Islam itself is extremely nationalistic in that Muslims are taught they are superior to all others, and that all others are a threat that must be tamed or destroyed. There was no such thing as Palestinian nationalism. If you called an Arab a Palestinian in the 1800s he'd have punched you in the face.

How would one correctly define the belligerents in the conflicts pre May 14, 1948 compared to afterwards when Israel was attacked by a number of Arab armies from different countries? For the sake of convenience, would 'Palestinian Arabs' have been a better choice of words than simply 'Palestinian'?

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, suds said:

For the sake of convenience, would 'Palestinian Arabs' have been a better choice of words than simply 'Palestinian'?

How about Ottoman or British? I'm sure that would have gone over like the proverbial wet blanket.

[suds]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Jordan is technically Palestine. It's not conquered. And Palestine has never been a country so it has never inspired nationalism. Muslims see the entire world as conquered except for the part they live in, and believe they must reconquer it all, starting with Israel, yes, but then moving on to everything else. You can find Muslim imams from the UK, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, and the US on Youtube saying as much, that they and Islam will conquer this land and all will be ruled by Sharia.

Jordan is not technically Palestine. The State of Palestine today is officially the occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza. Under the British Mandate, Transjordan (which made up 3/4 of the total Mandate) was made off limits to Jewish settlement. What Hamas refers to as conquered lands is specifically Israel, and Spain (including Andalusia). So my Spanish friends, I guess you're next on their bucket list.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Nations define themselves and their identity. A short while ago in human history there was no such thing as Canada. It’s pretty obvious why so many of Israel’s supporters insist a Palestinian identity does not exist. They don’t want to deal with it. 

Edited December 20, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[I am Groot]

12 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Nations define themselves and their identity. A short while ago in human history there was no such thing as Canada. It’s pretty obvious why so many of Israel’s supporters insist a Palestinian identity does not exist. They don’t want to deal with it. 

Would you? I'm not saying it doesn't exist now. I'm saying it didn't exist a hundred years ago. The people in the whole region considered their identity to be 'Arab'. And there was absolutely no linguistic, cultural, religious, ethnic, or racial difference between those in present-day Palestine/Israel and those in present-day Jordan/Syria.

And Canada has no identity. Our prime minister said so. And he's been doing his best to make that true for ten years now by importing millions and millions of third-world people and telling them not to bother to integrate.

Edited December 20, 2025 by I am Groot

[herbie]

On 12/12/2025 at 5:46 PM, TreeBeard said:

What does this have to do with Canadian politics?

Nothing.
But the poster is known for make leading questions on the title a requirement.
Like the current one implying that if your tongue is not firmly up Netanyahu's arse you must be anti-Israel.
And it has already been stated that Irish sympathy for Palestine is mostly due to a shared history of occupation and domination by others. Funny how so many others from a country that fought a violent revolution to achieve their independence share so little sympathy/

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

And it has already been stated that Irish sympathy for Palestine is mostly due to a shared history of occupation and domination by others.

I get the sense a lot of Canadians who are sick to death with having to accommodate First Nations wish we could turn back the clock and resettle Canada the way Israel settled Palestine.

No wonder they lead the cheering for pretending Palestine never existed.

[suds]

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Nations define themselves and their identity. A short while ago in human history there was no such thing as Canada. It’s pretty obvious why so many of Israel’s supporters insist a Palestinian identity does not exist. They don’t want to deal with it. 

I can agree with that. Except I've never heard of any Israeli leader insist a Palestinian identity does not exist.  Can you say the same thing with Palestinian leaders on Jewish identity and ties to the land? Well good luck with that. And you can lump all those who refer to Jews as 'colonizers' in with that brand. 

[suds]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

And it has already been stated that Irish sympathy for Palestine is mostly due to a shared history of occupation and domination by others.

Ireland is 90% white and predominantly Christian. There's next to no Jews, Arabs, or any other minority living there. If that's the best reason that anyone can come up with why there's so much antisemitism, then they must be getting fed a pile of sh*t from somewhere. Unlike Canada and Australia where I'm sad to say that votes count, it doesn't exist there. 

[blackbird]

23 minutes ago, suds said:

If that's the best reason that anyone can come up with why there's so much antisemitism, then they must be getting fed a pile of sh*t from somewhere.

It's part of the history of the Catholic church going back around 1,500 or 1,700 years.  Ireland is strong Catholic.  That could have something to do with it.  Like in everything, not all Catholics are anti-Semitic.  There were groups who opposed Hitler and the Nazis.  

The book "God's First Love, Christians and Jews over two thousand years" by Friedrich Heer goes into great detail about it.   He includes blaming some apostles who wrote parts of the New Testament.  I wouldn't blame them.  I believe most Catholics in the past 1,700 years never had access to the Bible themselves or studied it themselves.  They had to accept their priest's interpretation.   The  Bible did not become widely available until the last few centuries.  Still Catholics are required to accept their church's interpretation of it.

I haven't read the book myself yet.  Heer has written many great books.

But I believe the Catholic church and other Christians' interpretation of the Bible in the past 2,000 years could be the cause of the anti-Semitism.  I don't believe Jesus and the Apostles taught to hate the Jews.  On the contrary, they taught that Christians are to love thy neighbour.  This is a common teaching in the Bible. 

Europe became a hotbed of anti-Semitism down through the centuries.  The Jews suffered a lot of persecution.  We must feel sorry for them.  Then the Holocaust came along under the Nazis and killed two-thirds of the Jews in Europe.  They suffered horribly.  We have all seen the pictures of some of the surviving Holocaust Jews which were just skeletons.  Some could not even stand or swallow food or water.

Edited December 21, 2025 by blackbird

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Europe became a hotbed of anti-Semitism down through the centuries.  The Jews suffered a lot of persecution.  We must feel sorry for them.  Then the Holocaust came along under the Nazis and killed two-thirds of the Jews in Europe.  They suffered horribly.  We have all seen the pictures of some of the surviving Holocaust Jews which were just skeletons.  Some could not even stand or swallow food or water.

Not one speck of which justifies the way Palestinians were treated.

It's clear from looking around the world today what Einstein was afraid of when he said Zionist terrorism would squander the sympathy Jews had following the Holocaust.