User Posted October 26, 2025 Report Posted October 26, 2025 6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: I'm starting to wonder if people realize that others would think poorly of them if they ever acted like this in public. Do you care that others think poorly of how you act in public when you push this transgenderism nonsense? 1 Quote
User Posted October 26, 2025 Report Posted October 26, 2025 3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: I'm going to estimate the time you spent in school learning about genders is less than one minute. Of course, because until yesterday when folks like you started pushing the transgenderism madness onto everyone, no one ever knew anything about gender or learned about it. All of human history before yesterday was just ignorance. Yeah right. 4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: I am not a culture Warrior. And yet here you are in a thread discussing the war you routinely engage in fighting in... again. Quote
blackbird Posted October 26, 2025 Report Posted October 26, 2025 2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Didn't you already post this somewhere else? Stop spamming please. I posted it as a new OP, but put it here because it is related to the topic of gender ideology. The other OP is about the gender police in BC public schools, so it is a different subject. Stop telling to stop spamming please. This is not spamming. It is on two different main topics, gender ideology and the other of about the gender police in schools. You should be able to see the difference. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 26, 2025 Report Posted October 26, 2025 Just now, blackbird said: Stop telling to stop spamming please. This is not spamming. It is spamming. You're posting the same event on different threads. There's probably dozens of threads you can post this on. Would that be okay? No, it wouldn't. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
blackbird Posted October 26, 2025 Report Posted October 26, 2025 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: It is spamming. You're posting the same event on different threads. There's probably dozens of threads you can post this on. Would that be okay? No, it wouldn't. No it's not spamming. The one topic is about gender ideology and the other topic I started is about parents freedom of speech in BC public schools being denied by the school gender police. Two topics that are related and but two different subject headings. It is perfectly reasonable for me to put a link on this thread as well. Why are you just making up phony complaints? Haven't you got better things to do? Quote
Venandi Posted October 26, 2025 Report Posted October 26, 2025 53 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: You're posting the same event on different threads. Well it is a pretty repetitive subject, I do have a question for you though since I perceive that you support the concept of selective gender identity. If a man can be considered a women and shower with the ladies because he identifies as a women (something a man who didn't identify as such couldn't do), why shouldn't an older man be permitted to identify as a younger man and circumvent age restrictions he otherwise wouldn't be able to? In other words, if a man (who identifies as a women) can gain real and tangible benefits (in sporting events for example) as a result of identity, why shouldn't a person of any gender be able to identify as an other race or another age and gain a similar benefit? Let's assume for the sake of discussion that they are sincere and not deliberately gaming the system. Admittedly I have a bit of an agenda here, since I feel the same now as I did at 25 why shouldn't I be able to rejoin the military as a 25 year old even though I exceed compulsory retirement age (CRA)? Here's another identity request, since half of my extended family is actually native, why can't I identify as native and as a result of selecting that identity be allowed to hunt deer outside hunting season? I'm actually toying with the idea of seeking out a group of fit, like minded veterans who want to give this a go... would you support our bid to transition from 68 years of age to 25? 2 Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 26, 2025 Report Posted October 26, 2025 13 minutes ago, Venandi said: 1. If a man can be considered a women and shower with the ladies because he identifies as a women (something a man who didn't identify as such couldn't do), why shouldn't an older man be permitted to identify as a younger man and circumvent age restrictions he otherwise wouldn't be able to? 1. Well why can't someone identify as an attack helicopter? That's the Ricky Gervais take. I guess no one really wants to do that, gender identity is something else entirely, So people are revising their idea of gender to allow for it. People aren't posing as women to get the ladies discount at the bar or what not. It's an actual identity issue for people, and so this is how we've worked it out. Most people don't really mind that some are gender fluid. My interest in navigating through this is that we have to use the public sphere In the way that it has worked for us in the past. So I try not to denigrate people who have trouble with this new social issue. And I appreciate it when people take it seriously. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Army Guy Posted October 26, 2025 Report Posted October 26, 2025 7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: I'm going to estimate the time you spent in school learning about genders is less than one minute. And what w we socialize our next generation into is only partially based on facts. We recited the Lord's Prayer, and then we stopped. Neither event had anything to do with facts, other than the fact that curriculum is an outcome of a sociopolitical scrum that determines what "the" public thinks is best. It's only going to be fought out in the public sphere, and with dialogue. Do you know that the proportion of Canadians who support trans girls and oppose trans girls in girls sports absolutely is about the same? My position is that this is a big change and that a lot of people are not on the same page. So we have to step carefully, with respect for all sides. I am not a culture Warrior. I don't think people should be vilified for not accepting trans folks. But it seems like over the long Time frame they will be accepted. Not the case at all, i took biology class all through high school, only 3 genders were mentioned, male , female and inter sex which was rare.....Today there is an infinite amount of genders , This is were the fantasy comes into play....Our education system has picked up this fantasy and run with it hard...promoting it, convincing children that they should explore their gender which there is no limits...I'm not a medical expert but as far as the medical community is concerned there are the 3 genders....and you can't identify as a dog or cat, or what ever else you may think you are.... They have also bastardized the English language as well hijacked it to further there fantasy....all enforced by todays education system...and government some how....Not based on facts or science but someone fantasy... Everything we were taught in school was based on fact, it had viable sources , there was no false news in the day, if there was no fact it was declared as unproven, something to be ignored until proven...The moon is made of cheese, we know to be false because it has been proven false by science...the earth is not flat as some suggest....even though there are some today that still think so.. the belief in god has faded, and a lot of people have moved on in the western world...I'm going to say in Canada for the most part, hard to prove the bible as fact when it is based on here say...The public may think it knows best but in most cases, they are wrong, the public believed the earth was flat for a long time....and science came along and proved them, wrong....that's what is the missing piece in all this gender theory....science and facts.... Perhaps those half of them do not have daughters....Why is it that grown men who could not compete very well in men's leagues decide to say there are trans and compete in women leagues only to dominate against women.....would you allow your daughter to Box or practice marshal arts with men, what about football, full contact hockey, Rugby....why is there not mix leagues of these sports ?...what about the military why are there no women in Special forces as tier 1 operators?....Maybe the other half are not educated in the physical difference between men and women.... I thought i was stepping carefully, i thought telling my kids there was no such thing as monsters, dragons, etc because they were based on facts that these mythical creatures where products of someone fantasy or imagination, and no amount of education system or ...imagination is going to make them come to life... Like i said want to be howl at the moon, or called a certain name you made up then fine do that in your own space or home, but don't expect the rest of us to play in that fantasy, until you have convinced science and medical staff to be on the same page...I'm like you do you, I really don't care what you do on your time.... and don't drag me into your fantasy.... I don't think i vilified any trans in this conversation, if you not happy in your skin, by all means once you become of age, then change it all, on your dime....what i don't agree with is give children live altering drugs, medical procedures, or the infinite amount of genders, or changing the English language itis one of the hardest languages to learn as it is, no how do you explain they/ them could be a single person or a group of people or some one with mental health issuers.` There has to be boundaries on everything we just can't wake up one day and start changing things 2 +2 now equals 7 becasue social media thinks it is the new fade....the English language has been around forever, and while we add words everyday we don not change the structure of it... 2 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
User Posted October 26, 2025 Report Posted October 26, 2025 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: I guess no one really wants to do that, gender identity is something else entirely, So people are revising their idea of gender to allow for it. Except, people do in fact identify as more than just the opposite sex than they are. Other than you asserting gender identity is something different, can you actually put forth a logical, factual, scientific argument for why? 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: People aren't posing as women to get the ladies discount at the bar or what not. It's an actual identity issue for people, and so this is how we've worked it out. I don't care what their motivation is. The outcomes when a man thinks he is a woman and then people like you support forcing those men into womens sports and places is still harmful to the actual women. The simple fact is that a man who thinks he is a woman is not actually a woman. 2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Most people don't really mind that some are gender fluid. You are ignoring the outcomes here. The issue is not about what some random dude wants to do in his own home or parade about doing in his life, it is that folks like you want to go farther and demand acceptance from society in that some dude who thinks he is a woman, now gets to go into traditionally only woman spaces and participate unfairly against women in women only sports or other activities. 2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: My interest in navigating through this is that we have to use the public sphere In the way that it has worked for us in the past. Your interest is in pushing this madness onto society and using whatever rhetorical, obfuscation, or obtuse tactics you can to further it. 2 Quote
eyeball Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 55 minutes ago, Army Guy said: There has to be boundaries on everything we just can't wake up one day and start changing things 2 +2 now equals 7 becasue social media thinks it is the new fade. Yeah but if a lefty said 4, some right winger would spend 8 pages arguing it meant 22. The fad to never agree or give an inch is getting a little old. Take climate change for example....yeah yeah I know, so what it changes all the time. 2 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 (edited) 39 minutes ago, eyeball said: Yeah but if a lefty said 4, some right winger would spend 8 pages arguing it meant 22. The fad to never agree or give an inch is getting a little old. Take climate change for example....yeah yeah I know, so what it changes all the time. Pretty sure climate change is backed by science....just guessing , maybe in BC it is different... and people on the right just don't have the time or energy to think of things of fantasy....they are to busy trying to fix what the left has broken...Canada is meant to be broken....the majority has spoken... Edited October 27, 2025 by Army Guy 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Legato Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: I'm going to estimate the time you spent in school learning about genders is less than one minute. And what w we socialize our next generation into is only partially based on facts. We recited the Lord's Prayer, and then we stopped. Neither event had anything to do with facts, other than the fact that curriculum is an outcome of a sociopolitical scrum that determines what "the" public thinks is best. It's only going to be fought out in the public sphere, and with dialogue. Do you know that the proportion of Canadians who support trans girls and oppose trans girls in girls sports absolutely is about the same? My position is that this is a big change and that a lot of people are not on the same page. So we have to step carefully, with respect for all sides. I am not a culture Warrior. I don't think people should be vilified for not accepting trans folks. But it seems like over the long Time frame they will be accepted. When I was in school, zero lessons on gender. Guess what, we already knew. (yes we did biology) Time to go and identify as an identity entity and open a beer. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: Not the case at all, i took biology class all through high school, only 3 genders were mentioned, male , female and inter sex which was rare.....Today there is an infinite amount of genders , This is were the fantasy comes into play....Our education system has picked up this fantasy and run with it hard...promoting it, convincing children that they should explore their gender which there is no limits...I'm not a medical expert but as far as the medical community is concerned there are the 3 genders....and you can't identify as a dog or cat, or what ever else you may think you are.... They have also bastardized the English language as well hijacked it to further there fantasy....all enforced by todays education system...and government some how....Not based on facts or science but someone fantasy... Everything we were taught in school was based on fact, it had viable sources , there was no false news in the day, if there was no fact it was declared as unproven, something to be ignored until proven...The moon is made of cheese, we know to be false because it has been proven false by science...the earth is not flat as some suggest....even though there are some today that still think so.. the belief in god has faded, and a lot of people have moved on in the western world...I'm going to say in Canada for the most part, hard to prove the bible as fact when it is based on here say...The public may think it knows best but in most cases, they are wrong, the public believed the earth was flat for a long time....and science came along and proved them, wrong....that's what is the missing piece in all this gender theory....science and facts.... Perhaps those half of them do not have daughters....Why is it that grown men who could not compete very well in men's leagues decide to say there are trans and compete in women leagues only to dominate against women.....would you allow your daughter to Box or practice marshal arts with men, what about football, full contact hockey, Rugby....why is there not mix leagues of these sports ?...what about the military why are there no women in Special forces as tier 1 operators?....Maybe the other half are not educated in the physical difference between men and women.... I thought i was stepping carefully, i thought telling my kids there was no such thing as monsters, dragons, etc because they were based on facts that these mythical creatures where products of someone fantasy or imagination, and no amount of education system or ...imagination is going to make them come to life... Like i said want to be howl at the moon, or called a certain name you made up then fine do that in your own space or home, but don't expect the rest of us to play in that fantasy, until you have convinced science and medical staff to be on the same page...I'm like you do you, I really don't care what you do on your time.... and don't drag me into your fantasy.... I don't think i vilified any trans in this conversation, if you not happy in your skin, by all means once you become of age, then change it all, on your dime....what i don't agree with is give children live altering drugs, medical procedures, or the infinite amount of genders, or changing the English language itis one of the hardest languages to learn as it is, no how do you explain they/ them could be a single person or a group of people or some one with mental health issuers.` There has to be boundaries on everything we just can't wake up one day and start changing things 2 +2 now equals 7 becasue social media thinks it is the new fade....the English language has been around forever, and while we add words everyday we don not change the structure of it... Everything old is new again. I'll bet when you were young the old people about complained about guys with long hair. Am I right? Let's have a big meeting to figure it out in 20 years... When we're all gone. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
User Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Everything old is new again. I'll bet when you were young the old people about complained about guys with long hair. Am I right? Let's have a big meeting to figure it out in 20 years... When we're all gone. You said earlier you appreciate when people take it seriously, as you are here comparing hair style norms at the time to a man thinking he is a woman today. Let us know when you are going to be serious because this is not it. 1 Quote
Venandi Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 (edited) 13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Most people don't really mind that some are gender fluid. But you didn't answer the question though. I'll put it another way and agree with your premise above as a starting point. I'd say yes, be as gender fluid as you want but have the courtesy not to include me (or others) in it. On the other hand, if you're going to include me (and others) there should be an element of logic and fairness in any process that conveys rights (opportunities might be a better word) that a person not claiming the identity doesn't enjoy. If we, as a society, are going to convey very specific rights (opportunities) to people who make an assertion of "identity" then the concept itself should (at least) have the appearance of being universal and we should collectively acknowledge the unfairness of any process that isn't. If a biological man can compete, win, and set lasting national records in women's sports and then shower with the ladies after the event then I would submit that we are going beyond a simple expression of "identify" and entering the realm of legitimizing a "feeling" by giving it legal status, sharp teeth, and the capability to directly impact others What I'm suggesting here is that anyone willing to make that leap and argue vociferously in it's defence should logically extend the same identity rights to endeavours more easily defended than men becoming women because they feel like it. That's not to minimize legitimate gender dysmorphia but to acknowledge that it shouldn't convey specific rights and opportunities that would be unavailable in its absence without careful consideration and an element of universality that I would define as equity. If I'm in good shape, can easily do more pull-ups and pushups than the average 25 year old and still cut the medical why shouldn't I be able to identify as a 25 year old even though I'm clearly not in terms of my birth. See what I mean? I'd say that In my example (above) that I'm using a more easily defendable standard of men against men...in fact it's old men against young men. I don't mean to sound arrogant about my ability to hang with the 20 somethings BTW, I know the day is at hand when I can't... BUT IT"S NOT TODAY. So, I'll restate the question and anyone defending biological men competing in women's competitions should have an immediate answer to it: If I can cut the medical and hang with the 20 somethings in terms of selection criteria, why can't I identify as 25 years old and be afforded the opportunities I'm currently denied solely by virtue of birth? Edited October 27, 2025 by Venandi Quote
Goddess Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 One of the reasons we have women's washrooms & changing rooms is for propriety & decency. Women shouldn't have to explain to male colleagues or strangers (or to judges) why men should not be in the room where women deal with menstruation. Being a woman is not a costume you put on. 3 Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
Goddess Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 I'll mention this, too, since it's been brought up more than a few times amongst my women friends - we don't like the large numbers of men hanging around underwear and bra departments in stores. I'm not talking lingerie, we know men buy lingerie and we all expect men in Victoria's Secret. I'm talking regular, every-day undies and bras. Most of them aren't even looking for anything, they're just hanging around, sneaking peeks at what you're buying or looking at. We all suspect most of these men are just creeps. But it's suddenly socially acceptable for them to be so, and you can't report them or you get the JK Rowling treatment. 1 Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
Goddess Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 I don't like that men, who only have to CLAIM to be women, are suddenly invading all of women's private spaces, sports, prison institutions, etc and women are just expected to be fine with it and shut up about it. I'm not saying there aren't men with genuine gender dysphoria, but women can tell the difference. It can't be put into words, but trust me - we know. 2 Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
Nationalist Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 Yet another gender-bending thread eh? Good...good... How long is this nonsense going to continue? Men and women who "feel" like the opposite gender, may practice their gender-bending and LARP about as they please. However they may not expose their warped ideals to kids or adolescents. Nor may they claim to actually be the gender of their choice. That choice was made for them by genetics. 2 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Michael Hardner Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 3 hours ago, Venandi said: 1. I'll put it another way and agree with your premise above as a starting point. I'd say yes, be as gender fluid as you want but have the courtesy not to include me (or others) in it. 2. On the other hand, if you're going to include me (and others) there should be an element of logic and fairness in any process that conveys rights (opportunities might be a better word) that a person not claiming the identity doesn't enjoy. If we, as a society, are going to convey very specific rights (opportunities) to people who make an assertion of "identity" then the concept itself should (at least) have the appearance of being universal and we should collectively acknowledge the unfairness of any process that isn't. 3. If a biological man can compete, win, and set lasting national records in women's sports and then shower with the ladies after the event then I would submit that we are going beyond a simple expression of "identify" and entering the realm of legitimizing a "feeling" by giving it legal status, sharp teeth, and the capability to directly impact others 4. If I can cut the medical and hang with the 20 somethings in terms of selection criteria, why can't I identify as 25 years old and be afforded the opportunities I'm currently denied solely by virtue of birth? 1. What does that mean "don't include you in it" ? 2. Yes, gender identification is universal. "Opportunities" is a different angle to approach the problem with. I would submit that genders each have "opportunities" and "challenges". 3. The sports question is a side issue IMO. I don't think you need to be bound to any sports rules just because you accept gender fluidity as a social construct. 4. For the same reason you can't identify as a giant, a truck, a dinosaur etc. However you CAN identify as a poet, an athlete or any number of social monikers that describe people. We are moving towards a society where "gender" is seens as a social construct more than a biological one. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Legato Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 I asked Goggle's AI about trans women in men's powerlifting, notice the "Michael" like subject switch in the answer. There are no publicly known women who identify as men in the powerlifting world. However, the user's question may be a misunderstanding, as there are transgender athletes who compete in powerlifting. For example, Laurel Hubbard is an openly transgender woman weightlifter who was the first transgender woman to compete in the Olympics, as mentioned in Wikipedia. Additionally, JayCee Cooper, a transgender woman powerlifter, has been involved in legal battles over her right to compete in the women's division in USA Powerlifting events, as discussed in NBC News and MPR News. Looks like it's just a one way street. Quote
Army Guy Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Everything old is new again. I'll bet when you were young the old people about complained about guys with long hair. Am I right? Let's have a big meeting to figure it out in 20 years... When we're all gone. 100% right, but long hair was a fashion statement of the time, this topic we are talking about changing the English language structure, and having someone with mental health issues dictate to the rest of the world on who they are or what they are..... And finally the fact that we think it is OK for men to compete with women in sports, and not see the obvious physical challenges to that....not to mention those that would take advantage of all of that....and why has no one said they would start their own trans league where everyone would have the same p[physical advantages... That's the liberal thing to do, kick the problem down the road...let someone else figure it out.... 2 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Michael Hardner Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 1 minute ago, Army Guy said: 1. 100% right, but long hair was a fashion statement of the time, this topic we are talking about changing the English language structure, and having someone with mental health issues dictate to the rest of the world on who they are or what they are..... 2. And finally the fact that we think it is OK for men to compete with women in sports, and not see the obvious physical challenges to that... 3. That's the liberal thing to do, kick the problem down the road...let someone else figure it out.... 1. Yes and I remember having a heated discussion with a high school teacher in the 70s over the same subject except it was use of the new word "MS.". I am old and understand resistance to change, believe me. 2. They're separate questions. Lots of people think that transgender is valid but question the sports thing. 3. All sides did that with gay marriage too. Waited until it was 51% supported then showed their progressiveness. It happened. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Army Guy Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 Is it just US being resistant to change, or now just accepting what ever life decides to change, that there is no boundaries or norms , that today WE as a collective have to accept people who think they are animals, or fire trucks, etc, or use the unlimited pronouns that they themselves have made up, and we are expected to use for their mental health.. Myself i go out of my way not to inter act with people who are having difficulties with mental health issues... ...and then the fact we already for the most part excepting trans people and their mental health issues, but now they want it all meaning the sports portion....but what we have not talked about is once it becomes norm for trans women to play a role in sports where do real women come into play...do they just accept that they will never be in the top candidates in their sports... that sounds a little sexist is it not , we give rights to trans women, but take them away from regular women for the lack of a better term...Why can't they have their own league ? and we could accommodate everyone...even construct new changing rooms... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
User Posted October 27, 2025 Report Posted October 27, 2025 Looks like @Michael Hardner is ignoring me again. Got tired of me calling him out. You can see in this thread how I pick apart his commentary. He isn’t able to defend his garbage so he just hides. 1 Quote
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