Electricity Is Becoming Unbelievably Expensive as the US Power Grid Decays Into Ruin

[User]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

It is your fault that you resort to lies and false accusations about what other people said.

I literally quoted you.

Now you do what you usually do: write a lengthy, pointless response that doesn't actually address the argument at hand. 

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

In no way did i ever suggest that more gas comes down the pipeline to the plant during peak times and only a shameless liar like yourself would claim I said that.  

Sure you did:

"and it comes through a pipe on-demand"

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

So you can admit that you’re a liar or you can admit that you’re clueless amd not following the conversation but there’s no third option. 

Or I will just keep quoting you and calling you out for the ignorance you spread. 

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Look you seem to not know this either but Gas plants don’t store extra gas for peak demand that’s like saying if you put extra gas in your car you can drive twice as fast  

This is exactly what happens. There are seasons where more gas is needed and less gas is needed, they do in fact store gas in tanks and underground caverns. 

Once again, you are back to your ignorant magic pipe theory, where gas just magically flows through the pipe at the perfect amount always needed. 

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Your car only has one engine no matter how much gas put in the tank. It’s absolutely ret4rded for anyone to suggest adding extra fuel to a gas turbine can somehow produce extra output without another turbine engine and machinery required to convert that to electricity Some Gas plants have a limited amount of on-site storage only so they can continue operating if the pipeline supply is disrupted  not so they can magically convert it to electricity without any additional equipment  

How are you this stupid?

Your car HAS A GAS TANK. LOL

It is not some magic fuel line that just produces gas at the magic rate needed. 

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

False. Nothing i have said has been ignorant or factually incorrect. The only ignorant statement have come from your false accusations of things Indidnnot say, gibberish about “cans of gasoline” and irrelevant statements about lithium ion battery combustion 

There is something wrong with you, that you are this unable to keep straight who you are talking to. I never said a thing about "cans of gasoline"
 

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

LMAO you people brought up gas plants running on LNG to try and cover your shocking ignorance of this topic and only showed how ignorant you are.

And now you fall back on just lying. 

YOU were the one who ignorantly claimed:

"Furthermore gas power plants are not powered by “petroleum” or “liquified” natural gas.   It’s just regular natural gas, non-liquified, and it comes through a pipe on-demand, not cans ergo it doesn’t need to be “stored” you’re just parroting terms you don’t understand.  "

All I did was make the factual point that Natural Gas does indeed get liquified for storage and transport. 

 

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Remember you 3 stooges are trying to argue that grid scale battery storage projects like the ones going on in Ontario and elsewhere around the world are some kind of scam or conspiracy and we should instead be meeting peak demand by storing “cans” of gasoline-er-petroleum-er-liquefied natural gas - that will somehow magically put more electricity in the grid.   The stupidity and desperation of your arguments is on full display 

Once again, there is something wrong with your. I never made any such argument. My contributions here have only been to point out the ignorant things you say about how batteries work and how Natural Gas plants work. 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

It wasn’t pedantic of me to point out the ridiculousness of your comment about storing “cans of gasoline”.

Of course it was. It was childish and stupid, and you couldn't have shouted to the world "Oh my God I'm wrong but I'm too emotionally immature to cope with it" If you would tried.

So @User made fun of you. Played your own game and immediately you realized how stupid it sounded when I was thrown back in your face

I'm sure you were kind of logic really wins them over in whatever Elementary School you were still attending but here in the adult world it just makes you look like a complete twat. Be smarter than the twat.

Both a petroleum gas tank and a battery are forms of storing electricity. Both will need a chemical process to occur to extract the energy but that's not really relevant. The point is we can store massively more energy in a gas can then we can in a similar size battery and with a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the weight. And we can convert that potential energy into electricity much easier and faster

That's the simple truth.

The rest of your nonsense is just you wetting yourself because you can't cope with a simple facts

But we can store electricity as efficiently and cost-effectively as we store petroleum products then we can replace petroleum. Now go and change your diaper, and stop embarrassing yourself like that. I know for a fact you're not that dumb

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

1) Dipshit, you may have noticed this thread has moved on to talk about grid scale battery projects already installed that capture and store energy generated from wind and solar and release it back to the grid when it’s needed 

2) Dipshit, even without grid scale battery storage, when wind and solar are working, they offset emitting sources like gas plants which can go into standby. I know that as a climate denying nutjob you don’t care about that but the world can’t cater to your stupidity

3) Dipshit, Are you seriously dumb enough to believe fossil fuels and nuclear don’t create toxic byproducts?  Are you seriously dumb enough to believe we don’t know you couldn’t care less about pollution and the environment?

 

4) Dipshit, 800 energy “projects” weren’t cancelled. In Ontario, the Doug Ford Government cancelled 700+ CONTRACTS (not projects) when they took office and cancelled the Liberals Feed In Tariff program. But they have their own program and continue to commission new wind, solar and battery storage as I just posted in the thread. ALBERTA canceled projects when they placed a moratorium on all renewables because Danielle and the Alberta government ate right wing nutjobs owned by the Global oil industry 

 

5) Dipshit, More than 80% of the electricity generated in Canada is non-fossil fuel sources: nuclear, hydro, wind and solar. 

Dipshit, you're just admitting that wind and solar are intermittent, ie unreliable, ie practically useless. 

Dipshit, left4rds are the ones saying that "green energy" is so much greener and better. I wasn't the one who made that up. 

Dipshit, Trudeau is the one who killed the energy sector, Notley would have just been his sidekick in that endeavour, but a distant second. It's bizarre BS for you to blame Danielle Smith.

Dipshit, not all of the energy used in Canada is turned into electricity first. Most of the homes in BC are heated with n-gas. However, electricity is still important, and coal was a perfectly reliable source of energy, along with nuclear and hydro. NGas is not as reliable as coal: BC had a pipeline explosion in 2018 and we were one rupture away from an absolute catastrophe. Not only would tens of thousands of homes been without heat, normal homeowners can't just turn furnaces on after the gas line runs dry. We don't have enough qualified professionals in BC to turn everyone's furnace back on in one month. 

Your "enemies" - coal, gas and oil - aren't our actual enemies as Canadians. Our enemies are Trudeau, Carney, the rest of the LPOC, and the CBC. 

[herbie]

These halfwits can't figure out how solar home power works, let alone a grid.
Duh, it's intemittent that proves it's no good after 2 pages of explanation of battery storage...

Like explaining networking to someone who can't find their Windows start button....

But all the while they're naysaying, places like Texas and Europe are rapidly expanding wind * solar.

[WestCanMan]

17 hours ago, herbie said:

These halfwits can't figure out how solar home power works, let alone a grid.
Duh, it's intemittent that proves it's no good after 2 pages of explanation of battery storage...

Like explaining networking to someone who can't find their Windows start button....

But all the while they're naysaying, places like Texas and Europe are rapidly expanding wind * solar.

When you take into account all the expenses involved in building the energy sources, and the massive batteries needed to make their energy somewhat more practical (batteries don't store enough energy at that scale to last for weeks at a time, and solar is weak all winter long), and the environmental costs to build them, and the petroleum used to build them, and the petroleum products required to run them, and their extreme environmental impact at the end of their service life, and the fact that solar ONLY creates energy when energy is in low demand here, just makes them more of a hobby than a real-life solution.  

Energy is a need, not a luxury. Affordable energy is a need, not a luxury. You can't build an economy on expensive, ineffective energy sources. Canada can't afford to continue to live at the standard of life that we previously enjoyed while destroying our energy sector. It's like quitting your day job and just getting a Sunday morning paper route but still expecting to afford all the same things you did while you were working. 

 

Herbie's next quote: "I quit my day job and then bought a house using only the money that I earned delivering newspapers on Sunday morning! Honest injun!"

Edited November 17, 2025 by WestCanMan

[herbie]

Yeah, return to that again m0ron. Can't figure out how to do it after twisting your brain for almost 3 years.

Look dummies, how does you Starlink work when it snows?
Why would batteries need to work for months without charging?
How can the Dutch water their fields when it's not windy?
Tesla owners in Sask, can't get to work all winter.

Yeah. convince yourself you can't you can't you can't. Deny that everyone else can. It must make you feel good.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, herbie said:

Yeah, return to that again m0ron. Can't figure out how to do it after twisting your brain for almost 3 years.

Look dummies, how does you Starlink work when it snows?
Why would batteries need to work for months without charging?
How can the Dutch water their fields when it's not windy?
Tesla owners in Sask, can't get to work all winter.

Yeah. convince yourself you can't you can't you can't. Deny that everyone else can. It must make you feel good.

Sigh. 

A:exa generate random nonsense sentences 

alexa "of course, activating Herbie now...."

[herbie]

Everything is nonsense to those that consistently miss the point entirely.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Yeah, return to that again m0ron. Can't figure out how to do it after twisting your brain for almost 3 years.

Look dummies, how does you Starlink work when it snows?
Why would batteries need to work for months without charging?
How can the Dutch water their fields when it's not windy?
Tesla owners in Sask, can't get to work all winter.

Yeah. convince yourself you can't you can't you can't. Deny that everyone else can. It must make you feel good.

Ummm...herbie?

https://nltimes.nl/2025/01/19/almost-heat-netherlands-comes-fossil-energy-sources

You're just a full o' sh1t climate loser.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

Everything is nonsense to those that consistently miss the point entirely.

That's an unusual level of self-awareness from you

[herbie]

21 hours ago, Nationalist said:

You're just a full o' sh1t climate loser.

So we're talking about electrical generation here, not home heating. If you don't heat yours with natural gas, you're the climate problem.
Got it? It's about reducing CO2, not ending it overnight like you just can't seem to figure out,Neanderthal.

Oh but whatabout the emissions from all those rockets they use to send climate satellites? Whatabout? Whatabout?

 

[Legato]

8 minutes ago, herbie said:

So we're talking about electrical generation here, not home heating. If you don't heat yours with natural gas, you're the climate problem.
Got it? It's about reducing CO2, not ending it overnight like you just can't seem to figure out,Neanderthal.

Oh but whatabout the emissions from all those rockets they use to send climate satellites? Whatabout? Whatabout?

 

 

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

So we're talking about electrical generation here, not home heating. If you don't heat yours with natural gas, you're the climate problem.
Got it? It's about reducing CO2, not ending it overnight like you just can't seem to figure out,Neanderthal.

Oh but whatabout the emissions from all those rockets they use to send climate satellites? Whatabout? Whatabout?

 

Herb...baby...it's over. Find another cause. This one has run its course and is dieing on the vine.

Yes. Man has probably affected the planetary climate. No. Not enough to panic about and certainly not enough to invite energy poverty. Energy inflation. 

You've yelled, screamed, even thrown soup on priceless art. But the jig is up. Oh, we'll proceed with exploration of different energy sources. And who knows? Maybe soon we'll find something. But TODAY...your green silliness is too expensive...too unreliable. Not a sound decision.

Now...calm down...have a beer...and thank whatever gawd you may have, that we ain' all gonna diiieee...

[BeaverFever]

On 11/15/2025 at 9:03 PM, User said:

So, now you believe in magic pipes! When Natural Gas plants are in peak demand, the stuff just magically comes out of the pipes more!

ROFL

Natural Gas plants do in fact utilize storage from underground to above ground tanks, because there is not some magic pipe that just always provides the perfect amount needed. They do use storage to balance demand with supply. 
 

Here you are bullshitting about “underground storage” at gas plants to provide some kind of peak electricity demand.  Extra gas doesn’t make the gas plant put out more electricity. Of the plants that have on-site storage it’s just to bridge an unexpected brief disruption to the pipe not so the plant can go into  turbo mode during peak hours. 

 

 

 

[BeaverFever]

On 11/16/2025 at 2:56 PM, User said:

There are seasons where more gas is needed and less gas is needed, they do in fact store gas in tanks and underground caverns. 

Now you have switched from talking about generating electricity during peak hours to  storage during “seasons” and from on site storage at plants to storage in “caverns”. Why?  This has nothing to do with batteries or anything on this topic but you are floundering for a point. 
 

On 11/16/2025 at 2:56 PM, User said:

How are you this stupid?

Your car HAS A GAS TANK. LOL

It is not some magic fuel line that just produces gas at the magic rate needed. 

Here you have lost the point. Remember your original claim was that plants have underground storage so they can generate more electricity because not enough comes through thenoiep during peak times whinis a ridiculous statement. And then you went on this absurd straw man argument about pipes aren’t magical. 
 

To reiterate all the power generated at gas plants comes from the pipeline that feeds the plant. Storing has on site where thatbis even a thing doesn’t make the plant produce more power. That is what we are talking about here. How to supply more electricity during peak hours 

 

On 11/16/2025 at 2:56 PM, User said:

YOU were the one who ignorantly claimed:

"Furthermore gas power plants are not powered by “petroleum” or “liquified” natural gas.   It’s just regular natural gas, non-liquified, and it comes through a pipe on-demand, not cans ergo it doesn’t need to be “stored” you’re just parroting terms you don’t understand.  "

All I did was make the factual point that Natural Gas does indeed get liquified for storage and transport

What I said is factual. Gas plants don’t run on LNG or whatever other word he flounders for. 

OBVIOUSLY Natural gas gets liquified its literally what LNG stands for and LNG gets stored but that is competing irrelevant to this discussion   Gas plants don’t run on LNG and they don’t store it for extra peak power as an alternative to batteries. 
 

You and @CdnFox have failed to articulate how storage of “gasoline”/“LNG”/“petrochemicals”/“oil”/“petroleum products” (or whatever the hell else he hilariously tries to call it) is somehow an alternative to batteries whether in “barrels” or “underground storage” or “geological features” or “caverns” or whatever else. 

 

Batteries exist so your EXISTING GENERATORS can generate overnight and supply the next day for example - nothing to do with “seasons” or transporting energy to Europe or any of the other none you desperately flinging at the wall and hoping it sticks. 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

You and @CdnFox have failed to articulate how storage of “gasoline”/“LNG”/“petrochemicals”/“oil”/“petroleum products” (or whatever the hell else he hilariously tries to call it) is somehow an alternative to batteries whether in “barrels” or “underground storage” or “geological features” or “caverns” or whatever else. 

Well at least you've admitted how stupid you are

The vast majority of the world's energy is stored in exactly that fashion right now. Vast majority of it is already in storage tanks, the tanks are not an alternative to batteries, batteries are an alternative to the tanks.

And I love that you think hydrocarbons is some sort of fake term   DERP THERE"S NO SUCH THING AS OIL OR PETROLIUM!!! DERP!!!!!!!!

This is insanely simple and somebody in grade 3 could understand it. The amount of energy you can store in the form of chemical fuel per dollar is extremely higher than the amount of electricity you can store for the same dollar in a battery. Like thousands of times higher

At best batteries can provide a small secondary benefits to a power grid but they cannot replace the current convention which is to store the energy chemically in cheap easy to build tanks

 

And until the day comes that you can store electricity in batteries or something similar as cheaply and as plentifully as you can with chemical energy then solar and wind can be nothing more than supplementary energy sources at best

There's nothing complicated about that, you twist and turn and try and pretend that's not the case but your own article proves it's true as I have already shown above

[User]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Here you are bullshitting about “underground storage” at gas plants to provide some kind of peak electricity demand.  Extra gas doesn’t make the gas plant put out more electricity. Of the plants that have on-site storage it’s just to bridge an unexpected brief disruption to the pipe not so the plant can go into  turbo mode during peak hours. 

 

 

 

You really are stupid. I mean, world-class ignorant. 

You actually went back to drag this up again... 

Once again, Natural Gas Turbines do not have magic pipes that have the perfect amount of gas available to them at all times... they use underground and above-ground storage to meet peak and seasonal demand... They are not running at 100% all of the time nor could they as if they had an infinite supply of gas from a magic pipe. 

Natural gas-fired combustion turbines are generally used to meet peak electricity load

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=13191

 

[John Johnston]

On 8/30/2025 at 10:53 PM, BeaverFever said:

US electricity is 2x or even 3x the price of Canada’s and operates on much older generation and transmission infrastructure. Every province except Alberta (of course) has a centrally managed and publicly operated grid (Ontario still has some complexities from when far-right  premier Mike Harris trashed the province but basically still a centrally managed mostly public grid). Whereas US is just shitshow of various local and private players doing their own thing with very little coordination or interest in the bigger picture beyond their own immediate interests. 
 

Happy to join the Ontario anti-American rock throwing team. I got a nice hunk of Canadian Shield granite at the ready!

https://nelsongranite.com/

I like to shop local.

 

[John Johnston]

https://fas.org/publication/grid-failure-extreme-heat/

Interesting read. 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, John Johnston said:

https://fas.org/publication/grid-failure-extreme-heat/

Interesting read. 

Not to be contrarian but I didn't find it that interesting. I found that really bloated and unnecessarily wordy with tons of the usual phrases but no actual information or specific call to action

"We must catalyze the synergy of the infrastructure environment for the maximization of meeting the moment"  that kind of stuff,

About the only interesting takeaway is that it recognizes that there is an increase in need that is growing faster than capacity and that it's getting close to being an urgent or emergency situation.

Solar and wind can play a significant role in helping to alleviate that problem but as California and Alberta have discovered you can't base a power grid on it. At best it can help reduce the load for more traditional carbon or nuclear based solutions where hydro isn't available in sufficient quantity

Which is basically what I was saying earlier, the day will come when we can build battery or storage capacity for electricity that is both cheap and capable of storing large volumes and much the same way we can store chemical energy. When that day comes solar and wind power could very easily take over most of our energy needs. You could harvest enough energy during the summers to last you through the winters so to speak

But we're just not there yet.

[Nationalist]

On 11/17/2025 at 3:46 PM, herbie said:

Yeah, return to that again m0ron. Can't figure out how to do it after twisting your brain for almost 3 years.

Look dummies, how does you Starlink work when it snows?
Why would batteries need to work for months without charging?
How can the Dutch water their fields when it's not windy?
Tesla owners in Sask, can't get to work all winter.

Yeah. convince yourself you can't you can't you can't. Deny that everyone else can. It must make you feel good.

Silly person...

Im headed to start upgrading our Euro-house this summer. I am going to put solar panels on the house. I hope to do it sans batteries, because I just dont want to deal with them. It'll be a direct current with a switchover if possible. 

What you refuse to admit, is that current "green energy" is not reliable or plentiful enough to...'feed the bulldog'. Not only that, but pretty much the entire global energy infrastructure is built to accommodate fossil fuels.

Now...Silly person.. considering that its now been established that there simply is no reason to take the drastic and costly measures you advocate for, would it not be advisable to USE what exists today, while we deal with more pressing issues faced by humanity today?

Ohhh...like hunger...war...rotting infrastructure...homelessness. You know...many of the things you silly people love to howl about.

[User]

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Now you have switched from talking about generating electricity during peak hours to  storage during “seasons” and from on site storage at plants to storage in “caverns”. Why?  This has nothing to do with batteries or anything on this topic but you are floundering for a point. 

I did not switch anything... they use it for both. When you are acting like the dishonest fool you are, it proves you wrong either way. 

It has everything to do with the concept of stored energy. 

It is currently much cheaper, easier, and more scalable to store natural gas to meet electricity demand than to build batteries to do so. 

Why did this come up again in this thread?

BECAUSE YOU ARE AN IGNORANT CLOWN WHO CLAIMED IT WAS NOT STORED:

"Furthermore gas power plants are not powered by “petroleum” or “liquified” natural gas.   It’s just regular natural gas, non-liquified, and it comes through a pipe on-demand, not cans ergo it doesn’t need to be “stored” you’re just parroting terms you don’t understand.  "

 

[User]

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

To reiterate all the power generated at gas plants comes from the pipeline that feeds the plant. Storing has on site where thatbis even a thing doesn’t make the plant produce more power. That is what we are talking about here. How to supply more electricity during peak hours 

Who said anything so specific about it having to be on-site?

You think they put batteries on site everywhere? No. They make standalone grid storage. 

Once again... you are talking about magic pipes! The natural gas just magically flows at whatever demand is needed! 

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

What I said is factual. Gas plants don’t run on LNG or whatever other word he flounders for. 

All I did was make the factual point that Natural Gas does indeed get liquified for storage and transport
 

[CdnFox]

37 minutes ago, User said:

It has everything to do with the concept of stored energy. 

It is currently much cheaper, easier, and more scalable to store natural gas to meet electricity demand than to build batteries to do so. 
 

And that's SOOOO FREAKIN OBVOIUS that a child could get it. Yet @BeaverFever insists that it's not true.  

And the reason this is coming up again is he's so amazingly butt hurt over having to face that fact previously that he can't let it go.  And he thinks if he twists and turns enough that somehow up will be down, left will be right, in will be out, and black will be white and he'll get himself killed at the next zebra crossing. 

Like I just don't understand. There's no actual arguing this it is so obvious. We cannot store energy from solar the way we can store energy from fossil fuels and until we can at a similar price in similar concentrations we can't use solar for anything other than secondary power

[User]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And that's SOOOO FREAKIN OBVOIUS that a child could get it. Yet @BeaverFever insists that it's not true.  

And the reason this is coming up again is he's so amazingly butt hurt over having to face that fact previously that he can't let it go.  And he thinks if he twists and turns enough that somehow up will be down, left will be right, in will be out, and black will be white and he'll get himself killed at the next zebra crossing. 

Like I just don't understand. There's no actual arguing this it is so obvious. We cannot store energy from solar the way we can store energy from fossil fuels and until we can at a similar price in similar concentrations we can't use solar for anything other than secondary power

Yep. Many renewable energy providers also rely on natural gas turbines to supplement their grid commitments because they don't have anywhere near enough batteries to do so when the sun is not shining and the wind is not blowing.