I don't hate progressives...

[Moonlight Graham]

I hate Nazis.   I don't hate progressives, I just think most of them are extremely unwise, naive, and cowardly, and have thus ruined many aspects of our society.   But I can't hate naive fools just for being ignorant, they usually mean well.  But you know what they say about good intentions...

I think many on the left are victims of moral bullying from the more activist progressives who are often dumber than rocks and then spread their pseudo-intellectual diarrhea on humanity and then call everyone racist and sexist when they don't go along with it.  Remember communism?   Oopsies!  Maybe shoulda thought that one though more carefully.  The only reason communism didn't take over the West is because you couldn't bully people into compliance by calling them racist or sexist or homophobe when they disagreed with it.

Many progressive activist types suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect.   College kids who read a few articles or take a course and suddenly think they're experts who have the wisdom to change society in their image.  I know this because I was one once.

Most (not all) social change should be slow and extremely well though-out.  Younger people want everything *now* without thinking through the consequences of their actions.  The cost-benefit analysis isn't done properly.  This is largely why society is in the shape it's in and is having most of the problems it's having.  From Trumpism to housing....it's all rooted in this.  Progressives since the 1960's have completely f*cked us over with so many of their bad ideas that people took to the extreme and now we're seeing the consequences in every aspect of society.

Birth control pills?  The sex revolution?  Legalizing divorce?  Safe abortions?  Kids growing up in childcare?  Recreational drugs?  Social media?  What have been the consequences of these ideas, especially when taken to the extreme?  What are the most liberal cities in North America?  Vancouver, Portland, Seattle, San Francisco?  And what do we see?   Suburbs lined with broken homes filled with drugged-out kids addicted to smartphones.   Sounds like Kurt Cobain, minus the iphone.   The voice of a generation.

Asian families DO NOT behave like this.  There's 1.5 billion Chinese and 1.5 billion Indians to prove that, and they're taking over the world while we rot away.  You wonder what they think when they move to these west coast cities of debauchery.  And they're not soft on their kids like we are.  They demand better.

What's the lesson here, from time immemorial until now?  You don't let children rule the roost.   And it doesn't make me happy to say this, but you don't let women either.  The patriarchy, for all its ills, at least survived, and in fact allowed the west to become #1 in the world and built everything we have.   WE THRIVED.  This isn't anti-female, they're no less important, maybe even more important, because when women convince themselves they need to become like men instead of embracing the feminine then society collapses.  Many feminists are anti-feminine.

Since many young liberals don't even want children anymore (women are men now, remember?), progressives will be all but extinct in a few generations.  Replaced by the more conservative attitudes of immigrants from more traditional societies.  Survival of the fittest.  Darwinism always wins, in a way Nazis never wanted 😅

Edited August 17, 2025 by Moonlight Graham

[paxamericana]

13 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Survival of the fittest.

This is why you all should submit to Greatest Presidential President Trump. You may not like it, but this is what peak masculilnity looks like. 

 

[Moonlight Graham]

7 hours ago, paxamericana said:

This is why you all should submit to Greatest Presidential President Trump. You may not like it, but this is what peak masculilnity looks like. 

Whatever you say Coolio LOL

[TreeBeard]

On 8/16/2025 at 5:09 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

Since many young liberals don't even want children anymore (women are men now, remember?), progressives will be all but extinct in a few generations.

You think political ideology is something one is born with?   How has each successive generation become more progressive than its parents then?

[Moonlight Graham]

19 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

You think political ideology is something one is born with?   How has each successive generation become more progressive than its parents then?

If progressives keep choosing to not have children then more immigrants from poorer countries will be needed to come to Canada to prop up our workforce, and they will have more conservative views than western progressives, at least until some of their children are propagandized into the ideology by our society (western media, education system, peers etc).

By the numbers (demographic trends), a modern socially progressive society is unable to sustain its own population based on its reproductive choices, and will be replaced by other societies and cultures whose ideologies and cultures are better adapted to the modern world and its technologies, or less exposed to them...

Modern western reproductive attitudes, including many aspects of feminism (not all) are a societal cancer. If other societies wish to survive they will need to reject these modern western values.

Edited August 20, 2025 by Moonlight Graham

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1. ... at least until some of their children are propagandized into the ideology by our society (western media, education system, peers etc).

2. By the numbers (demographic trends), a modern socially progressive society is unable to sustain its own population based on its reproductive choices, and will be replaced by other societies and cultures whose ideologies and cultures are better adapted to the modern world and its technologies, or less exposed to them...

3. Modern western reproductive attitudes, including many aspects of feminism (not all) are a societal cancer. If other societies wish to survive they will need to reject these modern western values.

1. Why is it that people are brainwashed by leftist ideas but not rightist ones?  Don't you have faith in people's basic intelligence?  Access to information?

2. Except that the problem is happening in most of the world's countries, not just the West.  Tunisia, Sri Lanka, Vietnam...

3. Too bad you can't give birth I guess.  Wait how many kids do you have again?  Less than 3?

Edited August 21, 2025 by Michael Hardner

[TreeBeard]

17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

If progressives keep choosing to not have children

I don’t think it’s only progressives.  Do you have any data to show it’s only progressives not having children?

17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

they will have more conservative views than western progressives, at least until some of their children are propagandized

Some?  The next generation of the immigrants will be a lot more progressive than their parents.  Just like the people who were here previously.  Don’t you know any children of immigrants?  

 

17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

socially progressive society is unable to sustain its own population based on its reproductive choices, and will be replaced by other societies and cultures

Progressiveness isn’t passed through genes.  

However, society changes all the time.  You think Canada of 1900, where women couldn’t vote (for example), is the same society as it is now?  It’s a lot different, and a lot better in nearly every measure.

 

Edited August 21, 2025 by TreeBeard

[TreeBeard]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why is it that people are brainwashed by leftist ideas but not rightist ones?  Don't you have faith in people's basic intelligence?  Access to information?

It’s only brainwashing if it’s a viewpoint they disagree with.  I’m sure they wouldn’t tell you that women got the vote because people were brainwashed into thinking it was the right thing to do.  Or maybe they would?

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, TreeBeard said:

It’s only brainwashing if it’s a viewpoint they disagree with.  I’m sure they wouldn’t tell you that women got the vote because people were brainwashed into thinking it was the right thing to do.  Or maybe they would?

I used to find it fascinating how people would change their opinion on the Canadian public based on the last election result. 

Sometimes they're sheep, sometimes they're waking up.  All based on whether they elected liberals or conservatives last time.  And it's the same people.  The citizens of Canada. 

Wake up sheep, go to bed 1diots. 

 

Whatever. 

There is a marketplace of ideas, and some of them work and some of them do not. I better communicator can get their ideas across and get people to buy into it. 

People probably need to be a little more diligent about details and following up though. I agree with that.

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

I don’t think it’s only progressives.  Do you have any data to show it’s only progressives not having children?

Progressives are the ones who pushed birth control usage, divorce rights, legal abortions, women in the workforce, and most other anti-child and anti-family viewpoint that have tanked birth rates.   Conservatives were the ones screaming from the rooftops against most or all of these things.

It doesn't mean that these things are always inherently wrong, but they've been taken to an extreme by progressives.  More traditional societies, such as in much of Asia and Africa, don't embrace most of these things.

If you don't like me calling out all of these progressive agendas of the last 60 years, what would you like me to call it to make you feel better?  I would say it's more centered on modern feminism.  I don't think all women's rights are bad, but most of them have harmed the family and been taken to the extreme, and men have been convinced to go along with them.   Sure, maybe my beef is modern feminism.

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Some?  The next generation of the immigrants will be a lot more progressive than their parents.  Just like the people who were here previously.  Don’t you know any children of immigrants?

Yes, many.   And yes many are infected with progressive disease.

Quote

 

Progressiveness isn’t passed through genes.  

Correct.   A disease of the intellect.  It's a society-wide problem spread though universities and the media, and reinforced through peers.

Quote

However, society changes all the time.  You think Canada of 1900, where women couldn’t vote (for example), is the same society as it is now?  It’s a lot different, and a lot better in nearly every measure.

It's not better if most modern societies are dying.  100 or 200 years ago people died younger, women couldn't vote etc but societies survived and grew and prospered.  People now live for nothing but their own hedonistic pleasure and convenience.

Edited August 21, 2025 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

It’s only brainwashing if it’s a viewpoint they disagree with.  I’m sure they wouldn’t tell you that women got the vote because people were brainwashed into thinking it was the right thing to do.  Or maybe they would?

Conservatives have brainwashed for millennia, through the Church/religion, and education systems who reinforced religion and those values.  It still happens, especially in conservative places like rural areas and many parts of the US.  But most media and education systems have been dominated by progressives for many decades now, especially those geared to children and youth and younger adults.  Children now are not being brainwashed by rightwing Disney messages.  There are no mainstream movies empowering women to become homemakers and have a big family.

[Michael Hardner]

🤔. What's the difference between brainwashing and telling me your opinion.

Are all new ideas progressive?  If not, what is progressive?

Isn't change, even social change inevitable?

Is everyone brainwashed?

So many questions, honestly.

[Moonlight Graham]

Maybe I shouldn't be so hard on progressives, or feminism, and in fact not use those terms at all.  In order to get the message across I need to use traditional propaganda techniques, the same techniques that have spread all of the socially destructive aspects that i'm talking about.

That means using guilt and shame on people who disagree to enforce compliance (calling people childphobes and familyists), and figure out a way to appeal to the self-centered nature of people.  And like religious propaganda, maybe I can somehow tap into people's fears.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Maybe I shouldn't be so hard on progressives, or feminism, and in fact not use those terms at all.  In order to get the message across I need to use traditional propaganda techniques, the same techniques that have spread all of the socially destructive aspects that i'm talking about.

That means using guilt and shame on people who disagree to enforce compliance (calling people childphobes and familyists), and figure out a way to appeal to the self-centered nature of people.  And like religious propaganda, maybe I can somehow tap into people's fears.

How about shaming people into adopting new technology before its effects on the world are known ?

That's something that's been happening since we invented the rock for clubbing things.

Individual id!ots should not be listened to.  That fixes a lot of problems right there.

I could choose to single out the dumbest Trump supporter and say "see ! this is who likes Trump".  That wouldn't be valid.  I could also show you surveys, polls, that indicate they're not well informed, or well educated, or that they're racist.  It doesn't matter.  They're unhappy and they have a right to their say.

The women of Bangladesh have chosen birth control and the Americans have chosen Trump.

The rest of us have to adjust.

[TreeBeard]

On 8/21/2025 at 12:29 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

There are no mainstream movies empowering women to become homemakers and have a big family.

Would anyone watch it?  Why would a mainstream movie reflect a practice that is far from the actual mainstream?  
 

And when I mean mainstream, I mean the message that women have a choice in what they do.  Be a mom and homemaker if you choose to.  Mainstream view is actually having a choice. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Political allegiance fails to capture changes that are happening across the US and the Western world for that matter. For example, house prices and nimbyism are dramatically increasing in many Red state cities. 

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

1. Would anyone watch it?  Why would a mainstream movie reflect a practice that is far from the actual mainstream? 

2. And when I mean mainstream, I mean the message that women have a choice in what they do.  Be a mom and homemaker if you choose to.  Mainstream view is actually having a choice. 

1. No, but not because it's far from the mainstream.

A woman actor that I worked with once on a play explained to me once that women's lives are/were just not as interesting as men's and that's why there are so few women stories. 

That has changed of late, In life and fiction, with people discovering examples where women had to strike out towards some challenge. I'm thinking of mad Men, and the arc of Peggy's career from switchboard girl to creative director. 

No one would want to watch a film about making a nest, patching clothes, and cooking soup while the man is out fighting Vikings. Which story would you rather see? Hers or his? 

2. A skillful storyteller could indeed make a lot of a situation where a woman decides to be a tradwife, using current slang.  But as Graham implicitly outlines, the effort would be politically based... Whether it was in favor of the choice or not.  Given the current context, you wouldn't be able to make a story without having that element. 

...

 

As a side note, people try to submit that the woman being at home without employ is a natural state of things.  I don't think that's true. 

The myth of 1950s America continues to affect current day politics.

 

7 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Political allegiance fails to capture changes that are happening across the US and the Western world for that matter. For example, house prices and nimbyism are dramatically increasing in many Red state cities. 

Yes, housing costs in Japan also increased. 

McLuhan and Marx both have an explanation for what's happening, but as to whether they're helpful... I doubt it.

[Shady]

After the last few days, I definitely hate progressives.  They’re the sh!t stains of society.  They’re are completely responsible for our decline in the west.

[TreeBeard]

49 minutes ago, Shady said:

After the last few days, I definitely hate progressives.  They’re the sh!t stains of society.  They’re are completely responsible for our decline in the west.

There has been a decline?  In what?

[herbie]

In reading the dictionary for one. Forward thinking people are bad, ones that dwell in the past are good. Building things is bad, tearing things down is good. Replacing things that only work 90% with ones that are worser is gooder.
Hyuk hyuk!

[Nationalist]

On 8/21/2025 at 7:02 PM, TreeBeard said:

 

However, society changes all the time.  You think Canada of 1900, where women couldn’t vote (for example), is the same society as it is now?  It’s a lot different, and a lot better in nearly every measure.

 

Better?

https://tnc.news/2022/11/08/levy-tour-vancouver-eastside/

Is that better to you?

Or are you just fcking stupid?

[TreeBeard]

17 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Better?

https://tnc.news/2022/11/08/levy-tour-vancouver-eastside/

Is that better to you?

Or are you just fcking stupid?

One small section of a city is not how I measure an entire society. 

[eyeball]

On 9/10/2025 at 3:14 PM, Shady said:

After the last few days, I definitely hate progressives.  They’re the sh!t stains of society.  They’re are completely responsible for our decline in the west.

So why don't you do something about us besides whining?

That's all that's responsible for your decline - not doing anything about it.

You make it easy.