Why should we hate Nazis?

[blackbird]

31 minutes ago, Venandi said:

Islam works BTW and there's no denying it... you just won't like being subjected to it. 

We are talking primarily about undocumented migrants in the U.S.   That for the most part does not include Muslims.

I agree Muslims are not compatible with western society.  But they are not the undocumented migrants.  I posted the countries where the migrants came from.  None are from Muslim countries.   

Europe is the place that receives the Muslim migrants and has problems as a result.

[User]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

None are from Muslim countries.   

This is not true. 

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

No, it does not. 

Yes, it really does, especially in the Old Testament, but also in the New, including passages on how wives must submit to their husbands and how slaves should be obedient to their masters. 

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Really? There are two billion Muslims. How many are progressive? How many progressive Muslim states are there out of about fifty? How many of those 50 treat men and women equally in law and politics? How many treat unbelievers equally with Muslims? How many gay pride parades are there in Muslim states?

Nobody's trying to argue that Muslim majority countries are even remotely as progressive as an average Western one, buddy.  The point is that they're not all the same.  "Progressive" is a relative, contextual term, and there are numerous Muslim countries that compare favorably to some of the more backward Christian ones in these regards.  

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

But I openly oppose MAGA donkeys. How many Muslims openly oppose what YOU are calling the more draconian ideology of Islam?

I guess you missed the unrest in Iran after the death of Mahsa Amisi? 

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Incidentally, you won't find any Islamic scholars who agree with you. To them, there is Islam and the Quran. Either you believe the Quran is the literal word of God and follow its dictates or you are not a Muslim.

Incidentally, I can name an entire movement of Islamic scholars who do agree with me, and disagree specifically what you're saying here.  Look up who's widely considered the Father of Western Secularism.  I'll wait for your response on that. 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, User said:

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

None are from Muslim countries.   

This is not true. 

We were talking about undocumented migrants.  The vast majority come from the countries I listed in the article.  It doesn't mention Muslim countries.  I assume very few undocumented migrants are from Muslim countries.

There may be a small number, but probably not many.  There are lots of immigrants who came from Muslim countries through the regular process and have some kind of immigrations status.  They can't be deported.

[User]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

We were talking about undocumented migrants.  The vast majority come from the countries I listed in the article.  It doesn't mention Muslim countries.  I assume very few undocumented migrants are from Muslim countries.

There may be a small number, but probably not many.  There are lots of immigrants who came from Muslim countries through the regular process and have some kind of immigrations status.  They can't be deported.

Before: "None are from Muslim countries."

After: "There may be a small number, but probably not many."

Is it really so hard to just admit you were wrong?

[blackbird]

5 hours ago, Venandi said:

They already do at a fundamental and irreconcilable level, and then some, that's the problem and I don't think you appreciate the depth of it.

I can appreciate the problem.  Is there no solutions?  Seems kind of strange that there is a vast amount of money available to run the deportation scheme, but no money to solve the problems you point out without deporting huge numbers of people.

[User]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I can appreciate the problem.  Is there no solutions?  Seems kind of strange that there is a vast amount of money available to run the deportation scheme, but no money to solve the problems you point out without deporting huge numbers of people.

Deportation is not a scheme. It is simply enforcing the law. 

If we did that to begin with, it would not be as costly as it is now to do. You complain about costs, but it is people like you who made it so expensive to begin with. 

It's a very two-faced argument. 

[blackbird]

Some may deny it but it sure looks like there are a significant number of people, in the MAGA crowd, who lean toward Nazi ideology.  They have absolutely no use for migrants no matter how legitimate they may be as refugees.  We see this with the cruel treatment of the undocumented migrants.  This is a dark side of humanity.

[herbie]

Looks like?
You're on the 12th page of a thread with people who can't comprehend why one should hate Nazis....  that learned zero from school, their elders and most likely failed Sunday school to boot.

[blackbird]

12 hours ago, Venandi said:

You forgot racist, Nazi, xenophobiac and Islamamaphobiac.

Trying to be sarcastic but what you just said is a proven fact.

 

12 hours ago, Venandi said:

I would encourage you to spend some time in their home country, absorb the cultural norms /traditions / religious beliefs / tolerance of others who are different... then see if you truly believe they're compatible with a secular democracy.

What you said does not justify the inhumane treatment of undocumented migrants that is going on now.  It does not justify cruelty in all the forms happening.

Alligator Alcatraz

"

People held there say worms turn up in the food, toilets do not flush and flood floors with fecal waste, while mosquitoes and other insects are everywhere.

At times the air conditioners abruptly shut off in the sweltering heat.

Detainees are said to go days without showering or getting prescription medicine, and can only speak to lawyers and loved ones by phone."

Sending people to such places as the horrendous inhumane prison in El Salvador is also an act of extreme cruelty. 

Let's not forget many families are being broken up and people taken away from their children and spouses.  That is an unspeakable act of cruelty that will not be forgotten by countless people.  Is that the kind of culture you admire coming from the MAGA world?

Judge orders winding down of Trump’s ‘Alligator Alcatraz’

Edited August 22, 2025 by blackbird

[User]

11 hours ago, blackbird said:

Some may deny it but it sure looks like there are a significant number of people, in the MAGA crowd, who lean toward Nazi ideology.  They have absolutely no use for migrants no matter how legitimate they may be as refugees.  We see this with the cruel treatment of the undocumented migrants.  This is a dark side of humanity.

Sure looks like = I have no real evidence, I just want to call people Nazi's because I disagree with them

[User]

11 hours ago, herbie said:

Looks like?
You're on the 12th page of a thread with people who can't comprehend why one should hate Nazis....  that learned zero from school, their elders and most likely failed Sunday school to boot.

[I am Groot]

23 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Yes, it really does, especially in the Old Testament, but also in the New, including passages on how wives must submit to their husbands and how slaves should be obedient to their masters. 

Do you not understand the difference between a law accompanied by a list of punishments and a proverb or story?

23 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Nobody's trying to argue that Muslim majority countries are even remotely as progressive as an average Western one, buddy. 

And do you think this has nothing to do with the people who live in them and how their culture and values have been influenced by Islam?

23 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The point is that they're not all the same. 

Okay. There are fifty of them. How many treat men and women equally? How many treat Muslims the same as non-Muslims? How many have gay pride parades?

23 hours ago, Moonbox said:

"Progressive" is a relative, contextual term, and there are numerous Muslim countries that compare favorably to some of the more backward Christian ones in these regards.  

That isn't the point. Even the rich Muslim states are socially backward. I am interested in who these 'numerous Muslim countries' are, though, because afaik the only one remotely progressive is tiny Bosnia, which had its Islamist notions thoroughly cleansed by Tito. 

23 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Incidentally, I can name an entire movement of Islamic scholars who do agree with me, and disagree specifically what you're saying here.  Look up who's widely considered the Father of Western Secularism.  I'll wait for your response on that. 

A Spaniard. Do you not find it odd that such ideas about secularism have never arisen in the Muslim world? Maybe because Muslims don't know anything about Aristotle or philosophy anymore? 

I also find this a terribly weak reply. We're speaking here of immense groups of hundreds of millions of people, and you show me a single member of that group from a thousand years ago who maybe wasn't as into a theocratic state as many Muslims are today, as if this disproves anything.

The Muslim world - and I speak collectively here - is violently misogynistic, racist, intolerant, homophobic, antisemitic and does not believe in democracy or freedom of speech. And these are the people we are importing in huge numbers with no screening, while urging them to keep their own cultures because ours is shit. And who is doing this? The left. And who is marching with the antisemites in the streets? The left. And who is supporting antisemitic behaviour in universities? The left. Why doesn't the left hate the fact that Muslims (collectively) spit on everything they believe in while supporting most of the policies the Nazis do?

[Venandi]

On 8/21/2025 at 10:45 PM, blackbird said:

Seems kind of strange that there is a vast amount of money available to run the deportation scheme, but no money to solve the problems you point out without deporting huge numbers of people.

Can you honestly say that after four years of BSC that you weren't expecting a back lash? 

How many times were the people who caused this warned about the potential for it.... you were expecting something different? 

[blackbird]

35 minutes ago, Venandi said:

Can you honestly say that after four years of BSC that you weren't expecting a back lash? 

How many times were the people who caused this warned about the potential for it.... you were expecting something different? 

I don't know what BSC means.  Also what are you referring to?  Caused what?  Meaningless sentence.

[Venandi]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

I don't know what BSC means. 

It means bat shi$ crazy....

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

Also what are you referring to? 

I'm referring to the self inflicted madness at the US southern border for a period of four years.

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

Caused what? 

The current (easily predictable) backlash. 

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

Meaningless sentence.

Cool, I feel the same about many of your's.

As to Alligator Alcatraz, while I'm not wild about the name and can't speak to such things as toilet serviceability, I'd note that the entire complex is modular and the detention cells are pretty standard across the board (and several administrations including Obama and Biden). 

I would have gone the same route with modular and remote too due to crazies attacking ICE agents and facilitates.

Like this:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/16/dhs-statement-capture-violent-extremist-involved-prairieland-attack-ice-agents

It leaves me with the same question though, what did you think was going to happen? No one is truly anti refugee here IMO, it was wild eyed, stratospheric levels of BSC that fuelled this backlash... the reincarnation of Trump is a symptom of that and it should surprise no one. 

 

Edited August 23, 2025 by Venandi

[blackbird]

57 minutes ago, Venandi said:

No one is truly anti refugee here IMO

It was all part of Trump's re-election strategy.  Get everyone hyped up about illegal, aliens, criminal aliens,  blah blah blah and presto he won the election.

[blackbird]

59 minutes ago, Venandi said:

As to Alligator Alcatraz, while I'm not wild about the name and can't speak to such things as toilet serviceability,

All I can tell you is the reports are that it is an inhumane place and it looks as though it was intentionally created that way.  The admin designed it the way it is, to be as inhumane as possible.  They have zero respect for human rights and humane treatment of people.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

As to Alligator Alcatraz, while I'm not wild about the name and can't speak to such things as toilet serviceability,

It should be obvious to anyone it was deliberately placed in a swamp with alligators and made as inhumane as possible to appease the MAGA base who thinks that is the way to go.   I already posted a description of what the place is like.

The idea is to look as tough as possible on undocumented migrants.

[Venandi]

43 minutes ago, blackbird said:

All I can tell you is the reports are that it is an inhumane place and it looks as though it was intentionally created that way.

Of course the reports say that.

What they don't say is that the modular detention cells are pretty standard issue across the board (at least to my eye).

Somehow they were perfectly humane in the Obama and Biden era but POOF, the same cells are inhumane under Trump.  

43 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The admin designed it the way it is, to be as inhumane as possible.

Careful now, what you're really suggesting is that Obama and Biden did exactly the same thing, they either ignored it, or approved of it. 

43 minutes ago, blackbird said:

They have zero respect for human rights and humane treatment of people.

You have yet to address the inevitability of the backlash issue being a direct result of outlandish BSC open borders. My question stands... are you in any way surprised by the backlash?

You were warned about the potential for this over and over and again by people who didn't want to see it happen... my inclination now is to blame you for ignoring it and embracing the acceleration of BSC beyond any definition of reasonable.  

46 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It was all part of Trump's re-election strategy.

Of course it was... and it worked, might just be a reason for it that's worthy of consideration. We warned you that this message would resonate during year one of Biden; even so, your default position stayed at ++ BSC.

46 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Get everyone hyped up about illegal, aliens, criminal aliens,  blah blah blah and presto he won the election.

Come now, did he invent that or was there a huge problem in need of a solution?

Sanctuary jurisdictions gleefully reviled in their capacity to openly defy US immigration law and now you seem to be suggesting that it played no part in this?

Stay the course and this will come to Canada too, once liberal voters get scared to leave their porch, they will be the ones leading the backlash and it will be every bit as draconian as what you now accuse Trump of.

Once you get scared enough, you'll be supporting it too. What I'm suggesting here is that common sense, compassion and following existing laws is how you avoid a repeat of the things you now decry as inhumane.  

 

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It should be obvious to anyone it was deliberately placed in a swamp with alligators and made as inhumane as possible to appease the MAGA base who thinks that is the way to go. 

It was moved to a remote location to deter the crazies from attacking it. There's an airport there BTW...

Edited August 23, 2025 by Venandi

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

It should be obvious to anyone it was deliberately placed in a swamp with alligators and made as inhumane as possible to appease the MAGA base who thinks that is the way to go.   I already posted a description of what the place is like.

The idea is to look as tough as possible on undocumented migrants.

It is nowhere near as inhumane as possible. It's mildly uncomfortable. That's not remotely the same. Claiming that getting flashbanged while you're in the process of rioting is somehow inhumane is absolute proof why these people need to be thrown out of the country

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, Venandi said:

the things you now decry as inhumane.

You can do all the talking you want, but you won't be able to talk your way out of this one.

The admin is violating all international norms and conventions on human rights.  You will have to wear this one as it is going down in history as major violations of human rights in various ways.   Even if the MAGA gang think it is some kind of victory, it is a total disaster.  The world looked up to America for many years as a country that defended human rights, but that all appears gone now.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You can do all the talking you want, but you won't be able to talk your way out of this one.

The admin is violating all international norms and conventions on human rights.  You will have to wear this one as it is going down in history as major violations of human rights in various ways.   Even if the MAGA gang think it is some kind of victory, it is a total disaster.  The world looked up to America for many years as a country that defended human rights, but that all appears gone now.

You can do all that hyperbole and histronics you want but you can't stupid your way out of this one

No, nobody is violating "all norms and conventions".  This is pretty normal and in fact better than most around the world. 

Don't like it? Self deport before you get caught. 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

the detention cells are pretty standard across the board

You conveniently ignored the reports.  Standard detention cells can be used for the most inhumane treatment possible and that is what reports say is happening in Alligator Alcatraz.  We have no reason not to believe the same thing is happening in other places as well.

"

People held there say worms turn up in the food, toilets do not flush and flood floors with fecal waste, while mosquitoes and other insects are everywhere.

At times the air conditioners abruptly shut off in the sweltering heat.

Detainees are said to go days without showering or getting prescription medicine, and can only speak to lawyers and loved ones by phone."

[Venandi]

20 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Even if the MAGA gang think it is some kind of victory, it is a total disaster. 

There's no victory in any of this for anyone.

It's the direct result of an unprecedented level of madness, you were repeatedly warned about the potential for this happening...  you ignored common sense, compassion, federal law and instead you telegraphed "flank speed" to Crazy Island with your middle finger extended.

Your blame game rings pretty hollow with me...