Does Canada becoming an energy superpower depend on public opinion in Quebec?

[LinkSoul60]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Eby and the NDP do no support making Canada an energy superpower.  We in BC are shackled by NDP ideology that opposes pipeline expansion.  We could be selling far more to the rest of the world if the NDP got out of the way.  We have huge reserves in the ground.  But all the gocernment regulations and opposition groups make it risky for a company to even try.  They know they could lose a fortune just trying to get through all the hurdles.  Meanwhile the health care is failing and government doesn't have enough money.  They could have far more in taxes and royalties if everyone supported pipelines and helped it happen.  Not with NDP.

FN's and environmentalists always make it a bit more difficult in BC regardless of Premier/Party.  We have TMX and a number of LNG projects so not opposed to pipelines.  All the talk is only around the northern but again, there is no proponent that has come forward.  I'm sure in the background there are companies doing the due diligence but a $34B cost on a just finished pipeline and the transition of energy have to be considered. If/when there is a proponent will be interesting to see his comments then knowing the public and peer pressure.

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

I read your two links and could find nothing there to say how much is shipped by tanker.

Are you pulling the above claim out of thin air?   Where is the link that says all the capacity goes by tanker.  I read another website the other day that says a large part goes to the U.S. and only a small amount goes by tanker overseas.   Show me the link that explains that.

The weather on the north coast is not a problem for large ships.  They can sail in it anyway.  Once a ship gets out in the open ocean, the weather is rough in the winter regardless whether it comes from Vancouver or Prince Rupert.  The Pacific Ocean gets rough much of the year.

I spill in Georgia Strait would be much more of a disaster because it is heavily populated all around that area.   Prince Rupert area is mostly wilderness and only lightly populated.

What do you say about all the shipping traffic I told you about in the Vancouver/Georgia Strait area?  That should be a big concern too.   Better to avoid a high traffic area.

No, the environment further north is no more of a concern than in southern B.C.   A spill would be the same kind of problem wherever it occurred.

All the heavy crude is shipped by tanker. The only pipeline supplying existing Washington refineries direct is the original Transmountain and the Americans use less than 70% of its capacity. Any other crude to west coast refineries has to go by tanker because the original TM is the only pipeline from BC to the US. 

A spill in Georgia straight would be accessible year round, one up north would be very difficult to get at. The BC government is supporting dredging Burrard inlet so existing tankers can carry bigger loads, currently they are restricted by the inlet's depth. More tankers pass through the English Channel, Straight of Mallaca or Straight of Hormuz in a week than pass through Georgia Straight in a year.

We'll see what happens with any northern proposal, if there is one. It will be a lot more acceptable if it terminates at open water than the stupid Northern Gateway which had it tankering down 50 miles of winding fjord to reach the open ocean.

BC accepts 90% of the environmental risk from these lines so it should damn well have a say in how they are built.

Hecate Strait is shallow and subject to high winds and waves. It is regarded as the most dangerous water on the west coast.

Edited July 25, 2025 by Aristides

[blackbird]

22 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Hecate Strait is shallow and subject to high winds and waves. It is regarded as the most dangerous water on the west coast.

Hecate Strait is between 140M and 240M deep.  That is hundreds of feet in depth, far deeper than any ship requires.  Large ships like tankers can easily travel through the winds and waves.  They have to travel through a lot of stormy weather in the Pacific Ocean.

31 minutes ago, Aristides said:

All the heavy crude is shipped by tanker. The only pipeline supplying existing Washington refineries direct is the original Transmountain and the Americans use less than 70% of its capacity.

The amount of TMX oil shipped to Asia has been reduced.  Not much is going to Asia now.

"Canadian crude exports from the recently expanded Trans Mountain pipeline are shifting to the U.S. from Asia, showing how the major project’s effect on global oil markets remains in flux.

Exports by tanker to the Far East in July fell 45 per cent from a month earlier to 107,000 barrels a day, while shipments to the U.S. West Coast — mostly to California — more than tripled to 240,000 barrels a day, Vortexa ship-tracking data show. Shipments to China, the biggest Asian buyer, fell by about 36 per cent to 91,400 barrels a day."

Trans Mountain pipeline oil exports shift to U.S. from Asia | Financial Post

Not much is being shipped to Asia.

Canada has vast reserves of oil that we could be shipping to the rest of the world.

It will take years to build more pipelines.

In the meantime, other countries will be selling oil to the rest of world.  The demand is there.  We have been hampered by various groups and government bureaucracy for years and are left behind.

[LinkSoul60]

42 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The amount of TMX oil shipped to Asia has been reduced.  Not much is going to Asia now.

That's not true.  You're reading from articles in July 2024, 3 months after expansion opened.  Read what I copied earlier;

One Year In, China is the Largest Purchaser of TMX Oil   https://www.ualberta.ca/en/china-institute/research/analysis-briefs/2025/tmx-oil.html#:~:text=Since May 2024%2C Canadian oil,as a desirable new supplier.

China emerging as top customer for Canadian oil shipped via Trans Mountain Pipeline.  https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/china-canada-oil-trans-mountain-pipeline-1.7537530

 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, LinkSoul60 said:

That's not true.  You're reading from articles in July 2024, 3 months after expansion opened.  Read what I copied earlier;

One Year In, China is the Largest Purchaser of TMX Oil   https://www.ualberta.ca/en/china-institute/research/analysis-briefs/2025/tmx-oil.html#:~:text=Since May 2024%2C Canadian oil,as a desirable new supplier.

China emerging as top customer for Canadian oil shipped via Trans Mountain Pipeline.  https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/china-canada-oil-trans-mountain-pipeline-1.7537530

 

You are correct.  My mistake.  We are increasing our shipments to China this year.

However, what we ship to China is a fraction of what we could be shipping to China and Asia.

But my point remains.  That is, we could be shipping far more oil to China and other countries in Asia if we had another pipeline to somewhere like Prince Rupert, BC.  That's what Premier Smith in Alberta has been talking about it for.  Make Canada an energy superpower in the world.  Get away from dependence on the U.S.

We are still selling 90% of our oil to the U.S. at a reduced price.  We need to move away from that and more toward international markets.  Would you agree?

 

Edited July 25, 2025 by blackbird

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Hecate Strait is between 140M and 240M deep.  That is hundreds of feet in depth, far deeper than any ship requires.  Large ships like tankers can easily travel through the winds and waves.  They have to travel through a lot of stormy weather in the Pacific Ocean.

It isn't the depth for ships, it's the sea states it generates. 

Quote

The amount of TMX oil shipped to Asia has been reduced.  Not much is going to Asia now.

"Canadian crude exports from the recently expanded Trans Mountain pipeline are shifting to the U.S. from Asia, showing how the major project’s effect on global oil markets remains in flux.

Exports by tanker to the Far East in July fell 45 per cent from a month earlier to 107,000 barrels a day, while shipments to the U.S. West Coast — mostly to California — more than tripled to 240,000 barrels a day, Vortexa ship-tracking data show. Shipments to China, the biggest Asian buyer, fell by about 36 per cent to 91,400 barrels a day."

Trans Mountain pipeline oil exports shift to U.S. from Asia | Financial Post

Not much is being shipped to Asia.

Canada has vast reserves of oil that we could be shipping to the rest of the world.

It will take years to build more pipelines.

In the meantime, other countries will be selling oil to the rest of world.  The demand is there.  We have been hampered by various groups and government bureaucracy for years and are left behind.

So they are shifting to the US, they are still travelling by tanker because there are no pipelines to the US from BC other than the original TM. It is our choice where we ship it too. 

A lot of that oil is being tankered to California where it is loaded into larger tankers and shipped to Asia.

[LinkSoul60]

16 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You are correct.  My mistake.  We are increasing our shipments to China this year.

However, what we ship to China is a fraction of what we could be shipping to China and Asia.

But my point remains.  That is, we could be shipping far more oil to China and other countries in Asia if we had another pipeline to somewhere like Prince Rupert, BC.  That's what Premier Smith in Alberta has been talking about it for.  Make Canada an energy superpower in the world.  Get away from dependence on the U.S.

We are still selling 90% of our oil to the U.S. at a reduced price.  We need to move away from that and more toward international markets.  Would you agree?

 

Definitely agree. Our geography locked us in with one real customer so tough to command a higher price. TMX still has more capacity and the percentage shipped to the US will continue to drop. Good for the companies shipping through and getting that higher price that shows up on their p&l's.

We could be shipping more but still and always get's back to the fact.... no proponent for the project at this point.  Smith would want to see a pipeline built to the anywhere so I get where she's coming from.  I'm interested to see who will get involved in the conversations. Eby won't be too keen, FN's aren't going anywhere, last project cost of $34B, and what does it look like 20 years out.

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

no proponent for the project at this point.

Not yet but that's because of the hostile investment atmosphere in Canada where the government gives far more power to FNs, environmentalists, etc. and massive amounts of regulations, requirements, red tape, hearings, and fees that make the process drag on for years and years.  Then there is the no more pipeline law from bill C69 and the tanker ban on the BC north coast.  Until those laws are scrapped, there might be no company that would want to get involved.

The BC NDP opposed the Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion for years and fought it in court as well.  They lost in the end but that is the reason the federal government had to take it over to get it built.  It was the only pipeline supplying oil to the populated southwest BC and Washington refineries and desperately needed to be expanded.

The private company could not afford to spend billions and didn't have the ability to fight all the groups and fight the BC government so the feds bought it to get it done.  The BC NDP wasted millions of dollars of taxpayer money fighting the project too.  They probably delayed its construction a long time as well by tying it up in court and forcing the federal government to take it over.  Yet the people are stupid enough to keep voting for them.  What company would want to get involved in that kind of mess to try to get a pipeline approved and built?

The BC NDP made things worse by approving UNDRIP about six years ago which many claim gives FNs a veto over resource projects.  That really threw the rights of the vast majority of citizens of BC down the drain.  The best interests of the country and citizens as a whole are just ignored by the NDP.

That is just proof how bad the system is in Canada to get resource projects approved and built.  That's also why it ended up costing billions more.  Unfortunately we live in a bureaucratic country where everything costs more because of government red tape, regulations, and fees, at all levels.

Edited July 25, 2025 by blackbird

[LinkSoul60]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

Not yet but that's because of the hostile investment atmosphere in Canada where the government gives far more power to FNs, environmentalists, etc. and massive amounts of regulations, requirements, red tape, hearings, and fees that make the process drag on for years and years.  Then there is the no more pipeline law from bill C69 and the tanker ban on the BC north coast.  Until those laws are scrapped, there might be no company that would want to get involved.

The BC NDP opposed the Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion for years and fought it in court as well.  They lost in the end but that is the reason the federal government had to take it over to get it built.  It was the only pipeline supplying oil to the populated southwest BC and Washington refineries and desperately needed to be expanded.

The private company could not afford to spend billions and didn't have the ability to fight all the groups and fight the BC government so the feds bought it to get it done.  The BC NDP wasted millions of dollars of taxpayer money fighting the project too.  They probably delayed its construction a long time as well by tying it up in court and forcing the federal government to take it over.  Yet the people are stupid enough to keep voting for them.  What company would want to get involved in that kind of mess to try to get a pipeline approved and built?

The BC NDP made things worse by approving UNDRIP about six years ago which many claim gives FNs a veto over resource projects.  That really threw the rights of the vast majority of citizens of BC down the drain.  The best interests of the country and citizens as a whole are just ignored by the NDP.

That is just proof how bad the system is in Canada to get resource projects approved and built.  That's also why it ended up costing billions more.  Unfortunately we live in a bureaucratic country where everything costs more because of government red tape, regulations, and fees, at all levels.

Agree that much of what you said is why there is no proponent. The purpose of bill C5 is to help eliminate some of those barriers but end of the day FN's are going to have their say regardless. Again, Eby would face both public and peer pressure so will be interesting to see if/when there is a proponent.  

Regarding BC politics and NDP government....the other choice was Rustad and the Conservatives, or whatever that party became. I'd rather vote NDP or for bozo the clown than seeing Rustad attempt to play Premier.

Couldn't agree more that things need to change and by appearance, it certainly looks like the federal and provincial governments are trying to row in the same directions.  

[blackbird]

12 hours ago, Aristides said:

It isn't the depth for ships, it's the sea states it generates. 

Already explained it is the amount of traffic on the water around Vancouver harbour and Georgia Strait that is a real hazard.  I doubt if the shipping companies worry about the sea condition on Hecate Strait.  I worked on a ship on the north Pacific and we experienced very rough seas most of the year.  The ships coming and going from Prince Rupert must go through the rough seas to cross the open Pacific ocean and spend days and weeks crossing the Pacific. 

The Hecate Strait part near Prince Rupert is only a matter of hours to cross.  I doubt they are concerned about that.  It's the big ocean they must cross.  I know of two ships that broke in half out in the north Pacific ocean in storms.

12 hours ago, Aristides said:

A lot of that oil is being tankered to California where it is loaded into larger tankers and shipped to Asia.

Do you realize Canada is only shipping a small fraction of what we could be shipping and selling to Asia and the rest of the world?  If we want to become an energy superpower, we will need to greatly increase our pipeline capacity.   We have the reserves in the ground and just need to develop our pipeline network west and east to seaports.

If you oppose that, then you oppose Canada becoming more independent of the U.S. and oppose Canada becoming more of an energy superpower.  In that case, other countries will continue to sell their oil instead and we will continue to lose billions in revenue that we need for increasing the Canadian Forces and improving health care, etc.

Edited July 25, 2025 by blackbird

[taxme]

On 7/21/2025 at 10:03 AM, blackbird said:

Up to now it has been impossible to build gas and oil pipelines into and through Quebec because the Quebec government relies entirely on public opinion in Quebec to make its decisions on what it will and will not allow to be built in Quebec.  Public opinion is a very fickle thing and whether or not a country becomes economically well off by being an energy superpower should not depend on the whims of the public in one province.  That is not leadership.

Environmental organizations are also given a major platform and they are experts in driving public opinion.

So regardless of what PM Carney wishes to do, unless he can convince the Quebec government to go along with building oil and gas pipelines in and through Quebec, we are dead in the water.

Alberta and some western provinces hope to possibly ship oil and gas from a port on the Hudson Bay at the north end of Manitoba.  This might work but it is a lot further from the Atlantic ocean than the maritime provinces of N.S., Quebec, and N.B.  There might also be challenges in shipping through the Hudson Bay in the winter when the water freezes up with thick ice.  So there are two problems with shipping from Hudson Bay,  ice and distance.

We also have problems with the ideological B.C. NDP which is opposed to oil pipelines and possibly even natural gas.  They are often opposed to resource development.  They are obsessed with fighting climate change. They are also obsessed with giving FNs control over resource development.  So we can expect problems from them when it comes to building an oil pipeline across B.C. to Kitimat or Prince Rupert.

 

It is french Quebec, the native Indians, the Marxist environ"mental" NDP, and the globalist lieberals in Ottawa are the ones that are holding Canada back from becoming a wealthy and rich country and the loss of thousands and thousands of well paid jobs.

This is why Alberta must secede from Canada if it wants to survive as a country of it's own. Alberta will never ever see it's real and full potential as long as those imbeciles mentioned above are allowed to try and destroy this once great country and Alberta also. 

Canada is finished as we once knew it and all we can hope for is for Canada to die off and go RIP. There can be no more hope for a great Canada any longer because we have way too many anti growth globalist Marxist bimbos trying to run and ruin Canada into the ground. Stop trying to pretend that the old Canada is still alive and well. It is not. 

God bless America. Canada RIP. 😇

 

[Aristides]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

Already explained it is the amount of traffic on the water around Vancouver harbour and Georgia Strait that is a real hazard.  I doubt if the shipping companies worry about the sea condition on Hecate Strait.  I worked on a ship on the north Pacific and we experienced very rough seas most of the year.  The ships coming and going from Prince Rupert must go through the rough seas to cross the open Pacific ocean and spend days and weeks crossing the Pacific. 

The Hecate Strait part near Prince Rupert is only a matter of hours to cross.  I doubt they are concerned about that.  It's the big ocean they must cross.  I know of two ships that broke in half out in the north Pacific ocean in storms.

Do you realize Canada is only shipping a small fraction of what we could be shipping and selling to Asia and the rest of the world?  If we want to become an energy superpower, we will need to greatly increase our pipeline capacity.   We have the reserves in the ground and just need to develop our pipeline network west and east to seaports.

If you oppose that, then you oppose Canada becoming more independent of the U.S. and oppose Canada becoming more of an energy superpower.  In that case, other countries will continue to sell their oil instead and we will continue to lose billions in revenue that we need for increasing the Canadian Forces and improving health care, etc.

Actually the amount of traffic around Vancouver is very small compared to places like Singapore and Rotterdam.

There is nothing to hit in the open ocean other than whales. 

[paxamericana]

44 minutes ago, Aristides said:

If you oppose that, then you oppose Canada becoming more independent of the U.S. and oppose Canada becoming more of an energy superpower.  In that case, other countries will continue to sell their oil instead and we will continue to lose billions in revenue that we need for increasing the Canadian Forces and improving health care, etc.

Don't forget, your sovereignty is not guaranteed by your own ability. Canada is well past that point. You aren't able to secure your own sea lane for trade. Look at the Red Sea, Black sea. All it takes is a few jet-ski armed with explosive to shut down trade through the area. Half the Russian Black Sea fleet got sunk by that.  What makes you think it is as simple as putting your oil on a tanker a ship and sailing it? That world no longer exist. I highly advise against this foolish endeavour, look closer to home for your own economic prosperity. 

Second, the US is the only country able to to guaranteed a free and open sea lane for itself and partner, we're also incentivized to disrupt trade. Why would we help you sell energy to the Chinese!? This is the new reality you all need to realize. There is no future without the Americans. Swallow your pride. 

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

I'd rather vote NDP or for bozo the clown than seeing Rustad attempt to play Premier.

Hmmm.  Guess you better start praying for a miracle because the NDP is not going to be much help if you need to go to the emergency room.

[Gaétan]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Hmmm.  Guess you better start praying for a miracle because the NDP is not going to be much help if you need to go to the emergency room.

If you want a treatment you'll need more treatments because the doctor will only make it worse.

[LinkSoul60]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Hmmm.  Guess you better start praying for a miracle because the NDP is not going to be much help if you need to go to the emergency room.

Who knows what will happen with NDP next election, but almost assured Rustad won't be leading the Conservatives.

[blackbird]

16 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

Who knows what will happen with NDP next election, but almost assured Rustad won't be leading the Conservatives.

Don't be so sure.  Rustad has a lot of support.  He makes a lot of sense and has a lot of experience.  He led the BC Conservatives from a couple elected members to a near majority in the legislature in an extremely short time.  That was an incredible accomplishment.

Edited July 26, 2025 by blackbird

[eyeball]

On 7/26/2025 at 12:24 PM, blackbird said:

Don't be so sure.  Rustad has a lot of support.  He makes a lot of sense and has a lot of experience.  He led the BC Conservatives from a couple elected members to a near majority in the legislature in an extremely short time.  That was an incredible accomplishment.

Please...it was only because the BC Liberals packed it in. Losers, sorta like dippers who voted for Carney I suppose.

 

[herbie]

Do tell me, a resident of Rustad's riding one good positive thing he's done of lasting benefit.
Do visit Nechako Lakes someday and count the shuttered businesses and buildings. Now that the gas line is built you can tour the abandon ATCO trailers that once rivalled the size of his home town.

[blackbird]

17 minutes ago, herbie said:

Do tell me, a resident of Rustad's riding one good positive thing he's done of lasting benefit.
Do visit Nechako Lakes someday and count the shuttered businesses and buildings. Now that the gas line is built you can tour the abandon ATCO trailers that once rivalled the size of his home town.

 Ask the NDP that question.  Ask the NDP why sawmills have shut down in some places around northern BC?  Rustad does not control the government.   All the opposition can do is expose the failures of government.  They do not control it. The NDP is the government and is the one responsible for a lot of what happens to the forest industry and the mining industry.

"The BC NDP's policies have faced criticism for hampering the mining industry in northern B.C.. While Premier David Eby has announced plans to speed up mining development and support critical mineral projects, there are concerns from Indigenous leaders and environmental groups regarding the implementation of a controversial bill (Bill 15) that could expedite resource projects without adequate consultation. Additionally, the number of operating mines has decreased under NDP leadership, and there are calls for reducing regulatory burdens and investing in infrastructure to support the mining sector. The NDP's approach has been described as excessive red tape, leading to skepticism about its effectiveness in promoting mining growth. 

 

www.cbc.ca+3"

 

Edited July 28, 2025 by blackbird

[blackbird]

19 minutes ago, herbie said:

Do tell me, a resident of Rustad's riding one good positive thing he's done of lasting benefit.

The BC Conservative have tried continuously to pressure the BC NDP to do things that would help the forestry and mining sector, but only the NDP has the power to do something about it.

"The BC NDP has faced criticism for hampering the forest industry in northern B.C. Many industry observers believe that NDP policies have contributed to the decline of the forest sector, with several sawmills closing and thousands of jobs lost. The NDP government has implemented various regulations and policies that have increased costs and reduced access to timber, leading to a challenging environment for the industry. Additionally, the NDP's regulatory burdens and lack of strategic vision have been blamed for the ongoing difficulties faced by the forestry sector, which is a cornerstone of northern B.C.'s economy. 

 

www.cbc.ca+5

[blackbird]

Seems pretty clear where the fault lies for the declining forestry and mining sectors.  

The BC NDP is the government and only they make the laws and regulations that govern these sectors.

Problems include.

Excessive red tape, regulations, and prohibitions because of pressures from their base such as FNS who constantly claim they have not been consulted or sufficiently consulted.  Also environmental groups who oppose everything.  And of course the biggest opposition from radical leftists in their party who oppose various natural resource industries because they believe it effects climate change.  They think they are saving the planet.  This is how many people have been brainwashed.  It is wrecking Canada.  Rustad and the BC Conservatives do what they can in opposition, but they are not government and do not make the regulations and laws.

If you elect a party that believes in stifling forestry and mining to save the planet, you get what you voted for.

 

Edited July 28, 2025 by blackbird

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, blackbird said:

And of course the biggest opposition from radical leftists in their party who oppose various natural resource industries because they believe it effects climate change.

That too but your own source also underscores the fact bigger wildfires and more widespread pine beetle infestations caused by climate change are also a big factor driving much of the Northern BC's forestry sector into oblivion.

[CdnFox]

On 7/24/2025 at 8:01 AM, Aristides said:

BC has made no objection to increasing capacity along the existing TransMountain right of way. Three pipes instead of the existing two.

There is nothing that requires TMX capacity to go to the US. That was the whole idea behind building the thing. 

Why are we selling more to the US if we could get more money for it in Asia?

So what you're saying is that BC is anti-pipeline. It will tolerate expansion of existing pipelines but no new Pipelines

[blackbird]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

That too but your own source also underscores the fact bigger wildfires and more widespread pine beetle infestations caused by climate change are also a big factor driving much of the Northern BC's forestry sector into oblivion.

"

The pine beetle infestation that ravaged more than half of B.C.’s merchantable pine forest explains much of the production decline. But government policies have aggravated the powerful headwinds confronting the industry, by further diminishing access to fibre and making it increasingly difficult for companies to operate day-to-day. This unappetizing mix has resulted in many mill closures and substantial job losses, affecting both logging and wood products manufacturing.

The latest blow to the forest sector is the NDP government’s “old growth deferrals” policy, announced in stages over the last couple of years. This will remove an additional 2.6 million hectares of old growth from the ever-shrinking harvesting land base. Efforts to protect caribou habitat, tenure redistribution from larger to smaller operators, and a return to a more prescriptive forestry practices regime have also raised costs and limited access to timber for lumber producers, undermining investment and dampening employment in the industry."

NDP continuing to hollow out B.C.’s invaluable forest industry (BIV) — Business Council of British Columbia