BeaverFever Posted April 10 Author Report Posted April 10 (edited) 20 hours ago, gatomontes99 said: Today, the end game is clear. Ninety plus countries are now negotiating with us while China is scrambling to get attention. At a time when their real estate market (about 20% of theor GDP) is crashing, they need to ramp up and sell cheap goods. But that is being hampered by Trump pushing other nations to forgo the cheap crap from China for the quality products from any where else. The end game is to isolate China economically while restoring fairer trade practices and restoring manufacturing jobs in America. What a joke. 90 plus countries are not falling over themselves to cut deals, many of those countries will be scrambling to cut deals with china in fact, as Japan and S Korea are allegedly exploring. Once again Trump suspended his ridiculous tariffs after vowing not to…because his scam is failing miserably. The only one Trump is isolating is America. And he doesn’t understand that every time he flip-flops he just proves yet again he is unreliable, untrustworthy and erratic. Edited April 11 by BeaverFever 1 Quote
eyeball Posted April 10 Report Posted April 10 8 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Once again Trump suspended his ridiculous tariffs after vowing not to…because his am is failing miserably. The only one Trump is isolating is America. And he doesn’t understand that every time he flip-flops he just proves yet again he is unreliable, untrustworthy and erratic. I think the fact Trump made $415 million right after flipping proves we can rely on the Thief in Chief to take care of himself.... “THIS IS A GREAT TIME TO BUY!!! DJT”. ...he posted 4 hours before flopping. Sounds like a lot of his buddies, who also just made out like bandits on the stock market rebound, trusted him to take care of them too. Except now they owe him something of course. I wouldn't be surprised if Putin's portfolio suddenly just got fatter too. Liberation Day should be called Insider Trading Day. 1 2 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
gatomontes99 Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 5 hours ago, CdnFox said: That is not how that works. You know it's okay to take an honest look at trump, still like him in general and still say that certain elements of what he does is not great. No leader has to be 100% perfect, you can say they get it 80% of the time and still think they're a great leader But come on. We are not democrats. We don't need to lie to ourselves about whether or not the leader is not mentally there for 4 years and then act surprised at the end Trump's tariff policies were never about getting other people to negotiate. They are utterly pointless in that regard. They were absolutely about encouraging businesses to move to the united states and do their business there to bring jobs to America. However in the way he's doing it it probably will not work effectively and may result in fewer jobs. The economy is tanking and that will mean less investments in America then there would have been, not more He needs to drop the tariff act for right now with the possible exception of china and just announced that seeing his trade is on the table and discussions are happening he's going to take the tariff threat away and allow negotiations to proceed. He can put targeted tariffs on later where they make absolute sense but he's got to let the market correct right now. America is going to go into a recession if he's not careful and he will be living with that going into the midterms https://www.thenegotiationclubs.com/blog/the-negotiation-behind-trump-tariffs Quote The Rules for Liberal tactics: If they can't refute the content, attack the source. If they can't refute the content, attack the poster. If 1 and 2 fail, pretend it never happened. Everyone you disagree with is Hitler. A word is defined by the emotion it elicits and not the actual definition. If they are wrong, blame the opponent. If a liberal policy didn't work, it's a conservatives fault and vice versa. If all else fails, just be angry.
CdnFox Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 54 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said: https://www.thenegotiationclubs.com/blog/the-negotiation-behind-trump-tariffs Dude don't just post a link and ask me to try and figure out what the heck your point is. You know how to make a good argument on your own, I've watched you do it a 100 times, links are for supportive documents they're not supposed to be your argument I respect that you greatly admire trump and I also I'm aware of the fact that being attacked every single second of every single day by every single democrat in the entire world can I leave people a tiny bit defensive I'm not maligning trump. But this strategy is not working well for him. It was not working well when he attacked Canada and Mexico and was already causing massive problems. His farmers are freaking out. The auto industry is in shambles and it's stocks have fallen off and the layoffs are already beginning. His attack on the world made things worse. He is not far off from driving that economy into a recession and if he does that he is going to have a hell of a problem on his hands come the midterms. AND he's spreading bad will amongst his allies which is rarely a good policy when it comes to trade. Right now it's recoverable. He does the right things now he can turn this into a positive and begin a recovery that will see him out of the negative territory fairly shortly. But if I lived in your country and I was a trump supporter I would be writing to my congressman or senators or both saying that you were very uncomfortable with this course of action and would not like to see a recession. Give them some ammo to go to him with. Someone has to wake him up and point out that he is about to walk down a dark path if he doesn't change course Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
BeaverFever Posted April 11 Author Report Posted April 11 10 hours ago, gatomontes99 said: https://www.thenegotiationclubs.com/blog/the-negotiation-behind-trump-tariffs Oooooh a random blog post by an anonymous author. How impressive Quote
gatomontes99 Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 9 hours ago, CdnFox said: Dude don't just post a link and ask me to try and figure out what the heck your point is. You know how to make a good argument on your own, I've watched you do it a 100 times, links are for supportive documents they're not supposed to be your argument I respect that you greatly admire trump and I also I'm aware of the fact that being attacked every single second of every single day by every single democrat in the entire world can I leave people a tiny bit defensive I'm not maligning trump. But this strategy is not working well for him. It was not working well when he attacked Canada and Mexico and was already causing massive problems. His farmers are freaking out. The auto industry is in shambles and it's stocks have fallen off and the layoffs are already beginning. His attack on the world made things worse. He is not far off from driving that economy into a recession and if he does that he is going to have a hell of a problem on his hands come the midterms. AND he's spreading bad will amongst his allies which is rarely a good policy when it comes to trade. Right now it's recoverable. He does the right things now he can turn this into a positive and begin a recovery that will see him out of the negative territory fairly shortly. But if I lived in your country and I was a trump supporter I would be writing to my congressman or senators or both saying that you were very uncomfortable with this course of action and would not like to see a recession. Give them some ammo to go to him with. Someone has to wake him up and point out that he is about to walk down a dark path if he doesn't change course The link is from well before the tariffs went in place and detailed how the tariffs were a negotiating tool. No one was negotiating before they had tariffs levied against and now they all are. You assertion that it wasn't a negotiating tactic or that they all wanted to negotiate before hand is just oddly void of reality. Quote The Rules for Liberal tactics: If they can't refute the content, attack the source. If they can't refute the content, attack the poster. If 1 and 2 fail, pretend it never happened. Everyone you disagree with is Hitler. A word is defined by the emotion it elicits and not the actual definition. If they are wrong, blame the opponent. If a liberal policy didn't work, it's a conservatives fault and vice versa. If all else fails, just be angry.
BeaverFever Posted April 11 Author Report Posted April 11 (edited) 17 hours ago, CdnFox said: Trump's tariff policies were never about getting other people to negotiate. They are utterly pointless in that regard. They were absolutely about encouraging businesses to move to the united states and do their business there to bring jobs to America. Well let’s be honest they have given multiple contradictory explanations for the tariffs. Because they’ve also said countries can negotiate away their tariffs by dropping tariffs against US goods or making other unspecified “deals” with the Trump administration (ergo no need to relocate). Other times they said the tariffs were not negotiable and are intended to be a new permanent revenue source (which obviously wouldn’t apply if people relocate) Trump has said he wants to return to how things were in gilded age of the late 19th century but there weren’t any “good paying factory jobs” in those days or any “good paying jobs” at all. In fact back then people who performed paid labour instead of farming or being self-employed were considered deadbeats and at the bottom of society Edited April 11 by BeaverFever 1 Quote
BeaverFever Posted April 11 Author Report Posted April 11 (edited) 21 hours ago, CdnFox said: You know it's okay to take an honest look at trump, still like him in general and still say that certain elements of what he does is not great. No leader has to be 100% perfect, you can say they get it 80% of the time and still think they're a great leader Except as you describe it : 14 hours ago, CdnFox said: His farmers are freaking out. The auto industry is in shambles and it's stocks have fallen off and the layoffs are already beginning. His attack on the world made things worse. He is not far off from driving that economy into a recession and if he does that he is going to have a hell of a problem on his hands come the midterms. AND he's spreading bad will amongst his allies which is rarely a good policy when it comes to trade. Which is way more than 20% considering he’s barely been in office 2 months There are so many layers of negligence and incompetence here: Its not like he took a well- researched and widely supported policy but he just implemented it poorly Its not like he took a chance on an innovative, well researched but highly unconventional policy that made sense in theory but turned out to not work in practice It’s not like this failed policy was some inconsequential side project of his administration that had no real relevance to his administration or the economy 1) His economic theory was absolute gibberish made up in his own head and showed he lacks even a basic grasp of economic principles. And it was based on fake numbers that don’t even attempt to appear credible. The fact that his enablers in the White House and congress allowed him to implement this crazy scheme just shows how irresponsible US politics had become and it has destroyed what few shreds of credibility the increasingly dysfunctional United States had left 2) Not only is it absolutely insane that the entire global economy is being reordered based on the crazy idea of ONE MAN who knows nothing on the subject and is contradicting all accepted principles of economics, but on top of that this insanely terrible idea was implemented in an insanely terribly way with all the daily contradictory statements by White House officials and Trump contradicting himself as well as on-again-off-again tariffs and public infighting between officials It’s clearly just a chaotic madhouse over there nobody knows what’s going on or how anything works or even what their goal is Anyone who tried to do something similarly incoherent, irresponsible and incompetent at their work with majorly serious repercussions for their employer and business partners would be fired on the spot This is so shockingly negligent it’s practically grounds for impeachment So someone saying they disagree with his tariffs but still 80% like him is like saying they disagree with Hitler’s holocaust and wars but still 80% like him. Edited April 11 by BeaverFever 2 Quote
impartialobserver Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 The GDP number on april 30 is going to be a day of reckoning. It will or will not give quantitative teeth to the anti-tariff argument. As for jobs, you will have to wait until later this year or even 2026. That timing may work in favor of those who oppose Trump Quote
Nationalist Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 (edited) 2 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Except as you describe it : Which is way more than 20% considering he’s barely been in office 2 months There are so many layers of negligence and incompetence here: Its not like he took a well- researched and widely supported policy but he just implemented it poorly Its not like he took a chance on an innovative, well researched but highly unconventional policy that made sense in theory but turned out to not work in practice It’s not like this failed policy was some inconsequential side project of his administration that had no real relevance to his administration or the economy 1) His economic theory was absolute gibberish made up in his own head and shows he lacks even a basic grasp of economic principles and based on fake numbers that don’t even try to appear credible. The fact that his enablers in the White House and congress allowed him to implement this crazy scheme just shows how irresponsible and unreliable US politics have become 2) Not only is it absolutely insane that the entire global economy is being reordered based on the crazy idea of ONE MAN who knows nothing on the subject and is contradicting all accepted principles of economics but on top that this insanely terrible idea was implemented insanely terribly with all the daily contradictory statements by White House officials and Trump contradicting himself as well as on-again-off-again tariffs and public infighting between officials It’s clearly just a chaotic madhouse over there nobody knows what’s going on or how anything works or even what their goal is Anyone who tried to do something similarly incoherent, irresponsible and incompetent at their work with majorly serious repercussions for their employer and business partners would be fired on the spot This is so shockingly negligent it’s practically grounds for impeachment So someone saying they disagree with his tariffs but still 80% like him is like saying they disagree with Hitler’s holocaust and wars but still 80% like him. Hmmm... 2 hours ago, BeaverFever said: the entire global economy is being reordered Bingo! Since about Clinton, the middle-class has born the brunt of "globalism". Oh the wealthy have made out like bandits, but the middle-class is quickly becoming poor. A major reason for this is the exodus of manufacturing jobs. The global economy IS the problem. Nations should focus on their own national economies. On their own people. ALL the people. Not just those in the society clubs. Trump is trying...I think...to put ALL the Americans first...not just the Washington and NY social lights. That pisses a lot of wealthy people off. So their media attack...their judicial system attacks...a few people even attacked. I think most people know the economy is faltering and not supporting the nation(s). Very few are actually willing to do something about it. Except whine and spit MSM talking points...paid for by the very people who have the most to lose... The wealthy. Edited April 11 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
CdnFox Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 2 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Except as you describe it : No, exactly as I described it. People can look at trump's economic policy right now and say it's not working and still like what he's doing about reducing government size, still like what he's doing about getting rid of the culture war nonsense, and still like some of the other things he's promised to do. So precisely as I said. Whereas you want to hate him no matter what he does. The man could cure cancer and you would still be "But but but but tariffs!!!!!!!!!!" I'm not so close-minded as you and I'm not fueled by bigotry and hatred. I can recognize that his economic policy with regards to tariffs is backfiring and going badly while still saying that other elements of his policies have merit even if I may take issue with some of the execution. There's no "except" 1 Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
BeaverFever Posted April 11 Author Report Posted April 11 10 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Hmmm... Bingo! Since about Clinton, the middle-class has born the brunt of "globalism". Oh the wealthy have made out like bandits, but the middle-class is quickly becoming poor. A major reason for this is the exodus of manufacturing jobs. The global economy IS the problem. Nations should focus on their own national economies. On their own people. ALL the people. Not just those in the society clubs. Trump is trying...I think...to put ALL the Americans first...not just the Washington and NY social lights. That pisses a lot of wealthy people off. So their media attack...their judicial system attacks...a few people even attacked. I think most people know the economy is faltering and not supporting the nation(s). Very few are actually willing to do something about it. Except whine and spit MSM talking points...paid for by the very people who have the most to lose... The wealthy. The global economy is being reordered by trump the same way the twin towers were reordered by the 9/11 hijackers. Even if we pretend Trump had some noble purpose (he doesn’t) and even if we pretend having a global economy was the problem (it isn’t) he is going about it the most reckless and incompetent way. The US economy is dependent upon the current system global trade and if you’re going to change that you have to do it in a thoughtful considered way in partnership with all the domestic and international stakeholders. Secondly while I appreciate that MAGAs are all now finally repeating all the left-wing talking points about the rich getting richer and the plight of the working class, I will remind you that it was republicans who have made their political career over decades declaring these concerns irrelevant. Manufacturing jobs are not coming back. Nobody wants to earn $10 a day as they do in the places where the jobs went and nobody wants to pay $600 for a toaster just to support middle class jobs for toaster makers. Factory jobs were never really good paying to begin with they were only better than alternatives in economically depressed areas where they tended to build factories just for that reason. And it was republican union-busting that helped ensure they remained low paying. Furthermore if manufacturing jobs DO come back they’re likely not going back to the rustbelt factory towns in the middle of nowhere where they used to be. Also a lot of those jobs didn’t go overseas they were replaced by automation or made redundant by consolidation after corporate mergers as companies grew by acquiring their competitors Lastly considering the cost to society (public and private costs ) of raising a person to working age in a first world country, having them perform the unskilled labour currently being done by “Chinese peasants” as Vance recently said is incredibly inefficient. 1 1 Quote
BeaverFever Posted April 11 Author Report Posted April 11 29 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I'm not so close-minded as you Yeah you’re worse 30 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I'm not fueled by bigotry and hatred. LOL Maybe you should read some of your own posts some time 31 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I can recognize that his economic policy with regards to tariffs is backfiring and going badly while still saying that other elements of his policies have merit Sure but in scale and importance this is the biggest and most important of them all. And as I described in detail it’s not simply a policy “backfiring” Quote
Nationalist Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 37 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: The global economy is being reordered by trump the same way the twin towers were reordered by the 9/11 hijackers. Even if we pretend Trump had some noble purpose (he doesn’t) and even if we pretend having a global economy was the problem (it isn’t) he is going about it the most reckless and incompetent way. The US economy is dependent upon the current system global trade and if you’re going to change that you have to do it in a thoughtful considered way in partnership with all the domestic and international stakeholders. Secondly while I appreciate that MAGAs are all now finally repeating all the left-wing talking points about the rich getting richer and the plight of the working class, I will remind you that it was republicans who have made their political career over decades declaring these concerns irrelevant. Manufacturing jobs are not coming back. Nobody wants to earn $10 a day as they do in the places where the jobs went and nobody wants to pay $600 for a toaster just to support middle class jobs for toaster makers. Factory jobs were never really good paying to begin with they were only better than alternatives in economically depressed areas where they tended to build factories just for that reason. And it was republican union-busting that helped ensure they remained low paying. Furthermore if manufacturing jobs DO come back they’re likely not going back to the rustbelt factory towns in the middle of nowhere where they used to be. Also a lot of those jobs didn’t go overseas they were replaced by automation or made redundant by consolidation after corporate mergers as companies grew by acquiring their competitors Lastly considering the cost to society (public and private costs ) of raising a person to working age in a first world country, having them perform the unskilled labour currently being done by “Chinese peasants” as Vance recently said is incredibly inefficient. https://www.industryselect.com/blog/new-us-factories-announced-in-march-2025 And that's only the beginning. I know you'll argue the point but...at this point it's obvious that you're simply playing politics at the expense of your own people. And THAT...Beave...is why there is so much support for this...ham-handed effort. The pee-ons you Libbies hate so much, want some cake too. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
impartialobserver Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 1 minute ago, Nationalist said: https://www.industryselect.com/blog/new-us-factories-announced-in-march-2025 And that's only the beginning. I know you'll argue the point but...at this point it's obvious that you're simply playing politics at the expense of your own people. And THAT...Beave...is why there is so much support for this...ham-handed effort. The pee-ons you Libbies hate so much, want some cake too. The real data that you should look at is QCEW. However, it is highly lagged due to insane amounts of data. Look for this in early 2026. If the factories are actually coming and jobs are up.. this will show it. Quote
CdnFox Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: Yeah you’re worse ooooo so witty!!! I'm open minded which i guess is worse to a liberal Quote LOL Maybe you should read some of your own posts some time I do frequently. A lot of them point out your bigotry and hatred Maybe you should work on that Quote Sure but in scale and importance this is the biggest and most important of them all. And as I described in detail it’s not simply a policy “backfiring you explain why in your perspective that's the case but your argument wasn't outrageously compelling. This has the potential to become one of the most important of them all but at this point in time it's still just a blip. It kind of sounds like his advisors have come to him and said you can't do this. Everybody including him and all of his advisors was swearing even a day or two ago that he would never ever back down on these tariffs, they were here forever, better get used to it, this is what we're doing trump won't bend, and all of a sudden out of the blue it's we're pausing them and setting them aside and bending and may not actually go forward with them and we're going to wait for 3 months. Something changed and what changed was he realized just how bad the damage was getting. Depending on what he does over the next couple of weeks he may be able to start to repair that damage and very quickly recover. In the meantime he may actually manage to get a few trade concessions out of some of the other countries to address some of the trade irritants that he's unhappy with. I don't know that I'd call it a victory, but I would say it's making lemonade out of lemons and a year from now it won't have had a major impact. Of course that does assume that he does the right things as I said over the next few weeks. And it's a little hard to see how this thing with china is going to shake out. I suspect he's come to the realization that he simply did not have as much muscle as he thought he did when it comes to world trade he's going to have to walk slightly more Softly. And he's not going to get the billions and billions and billions in revenue from tariffs that he was hoping for. So he'll have to adjust. Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Hodad Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 2 hours ago, impartialobserver said: The GDP number on april 30 is going to be a day of reckoning. It will or will not give quantitative teeth to the anti-tariff argument. As for jobs, you will have to wait until later this year or even 2026. That timing may work in favor of those who oppose Trump It will almost certainly be down, but just a tiny preview of what would happen with the tariffs in place. 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: https://www.industryselect.com/blog/new-us-factories-announced-in-march-2025 And that's only the beginning. I know you'll argue the point but...at this point it's obvious that you're simply playing politics at the expense of your own people. And THAT...Beave...is why there is so much support for this...ham-handed effort. The pee-ons you Libbies hate so much, want some cake too. You understand that this is prior to any tariffs, all of it already planned WAY before Trump was even elected right? And much of it due to the IRA and CHIPS incentives. Ah, who am I kidding, of course you don't. It's hilarious that you think Trump said the T word and suddenly companies started breaking ground. Quote
Nationalist Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 33 minutes ago, Hodad said: It will almost certainly be down, but just a tiny preview of what would happen with the tariffs in place. You understand that this is prior to any tariffs, all of it already planned WAY before Trump was even elected right? And much of it due to the IRA and CHIPS incentives. Ah, who am I kidding, of course you don't. It's hilarious that you think Trump said the T word and suddenly companies started breaking ground. It's hilarious that you think anything Brandon did had a beneficial outcome. 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
SpankyMcFarland Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 (edited) Americans should be very careful what they wish for. At the moment, foreigners are selling them stuff they want and putting many of those earned dollars into IOUs from the US Treasury. If that commodius vicus of recirculation were to stop suddenly, God help us all. Edited April 11 by SpankyMcFarland 1 Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted April 12 Report Posted April 12 An easier way to proceed might be with a national sales tax. That would provide money to narrow the deficit and also curb consumer spending. There’d be no need to get involved in fights with any foreign country. Of course, Trump and Co. would have to be honest about raising taxes and that seems to be a no-no down there. Quote
Aristides Posted April 12 Report Posted April 12 (edited) Trump now exempting smart phones and computers from tariffs on China. Doesn't like the idea of $3500 smart phones and $5000 laptops I guess. 2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: An easier way to proceed might be with a national sales tax. That would provide money to narrow the deficit and also curb consumer spending. There’d be no need to get involved in fights with any foreign country. Of course, Trump and Co. would have to be honest about raising taxes and that seems to be a no-no down there. VAT and GST are tariffs in Trump's whacky world. Edited April 12 by Aristides Quote
Aristides Posted April 12 Report Posted April 12 On 4/11/2025 at 3:33 PM, SpankyMcFarland said: Americans should be very careful what they wish for. At the moment, foreigners are selling them stuff they want and putting many of those earned dollars into IOUs from the US Treasury. If that commodius vicus of recirculation were to stop suddenly, God help us all. Investors dumping US government bonds 1 Quote
herbie Posted April 12 Report Posted April 12 2 minutes ago, Aristides said: VAT and GST are subsidies in Trump's whacky world. Wacky? Taxing your own consumers but not exports is a subsidy he says. Then WTF are his tariffs? Hide the much larger tax they pay by charging the importer, and not charging exporters of goods. The guy is such a compulsive f*cking liar he doesn't care how stupid it makes him look. 2 Quote
Aristides Posted April 13 Report Posted April 13 The stable genius is an effing id*ot. https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/damage-done-trump-tariffs-put-154130477.html 1 Quote
BeaverFever Posted April 14 Author Report Posted April 14 On 4/11/2025 at 3:41 PM, Nationalist said: https://www.industryselect.com/blog/new-us-factories-announced-in-march-2025 And that's only the beginning. I know you'll argue the point but...at this point it's obvious that you're simply playing politics at the expense of your own people. And THAT...Beave...is why there is so much support for this...ham-handed effort. The pee-ons you Libbies hate so much, want some cake too. Lol it’s not playing politics to criticize the epic negligence and incompetence of the Trump administration. Lest I belabour the point the US economy and therefore the world economy has now been placed under one man rule and that man knows nothing about economics, enacting policies that directly contradict all widely accepted economic theories and is just making it up as ye goes day by day. You know there’s a difference between replacing established orthodoxy with a new upstart theory and what Trump is doing which is no coherent theory at all. And the pee-ons certainly deserve their piece of the pie but they’re trying to get it from someone who doesn’t know how to bake and doesn’t really care about them other than using them to take over the bakery Also as has been mentioned repeatedly, it was Republicans who took away the pee-on’s pie to begin with 1 Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.