Canada Retaliates with it's Own Tariffs - Tit-for-tat isn't the answer

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

they can get away with punching Canada & Mexico in the face

China, not so much, but that is why the tariff is only 10% on China

What’s the point in destroying the biggest markets for your own exports?  It’s not just about the impact of the tariffs and regulations; it’s about goodwill.  The U.S. will lose its biggest export markets and drive up internal costs and still remain uncompetitive with China.  Anyway, they can try the experiment.  

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Actually you can gain entry to Canada by investing in businesses and hiring Canadians.  It’s how BC was developed with Hong Kong money.  

bro, Canadian bureaucrats & politicians think their job is to punish businesses for making profits

it's exactly the opposite in America

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What’s the point in destroying the biggest markets for your own exports?  It’s not just about the impact of the tariffs and regulations; it’s about goodwill.  The U.S. will lose its biggest export markets and drive up internal costs and still remain uncompetitive with China.  Anyway, they can try the experiment.  

I think you might be in a bit of a self reinforcing information bubble

like I was at Walmart & Costco today, there ain't no boycott going on, bro

both were packed

[Zeitgeist]

28 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

well it's not just tariffs

the bigger shock for Canada is to come

because the second half of the plan is massive tax cuts and deregulation to free up businesses

like when Canada is tariffed, and vastly overtaxed, and vastly overregulated

the pull to move from Canada to the USA is going to be off the charts

meanwhile Canada has absolutely no plans to cut taxes & regulations

Canada's entire plan is retaliate, and then, what ?  

Somehow Trump is going somewhere soon ?

Canada thinks the Democrats are going to save Canada ?

Poilievre has tax cut plans.  The question of whether or not the tariffs will provide the external revenue windfall that Trump thinks will come is not in any way settled, because there’s a likelihood that sales into the U.S. and U.S. exports drop, perhaps quite significantly.  A drop in business activity means loss of business revenue.  It’s funny that they think other countries will just keep buying US stuff and keep trying to sell into a market where it’s harder to sell goods rather than seek other markets.  

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Poilievre has tax cut plans.  The question of whether or not the tariffs will provide the external revenue windfall that Trump thinks will come is not in any way settled, because there’s a likelihood that sales into the U.S. and U.S. exports drop, perhaps quite significantly.  A drop in business activity means loss of business revenue.  It’s funny that they think other countries will just keep buying US stuff and keep trying to sell into a market where it’s harder to sell goods rather than seek other markets.  

nobody is going to find other markets anytime soon

if you had those options, you would be there already

Canada has been talking about diversification for a hundred years, it never happens

Canada is not going to make any major structural changes, business in Canada doesn't want that

Canada is just going to try to wait Trump out, while suffering a recession on the scale of 1981-82

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I think you might be in a bit of a self reinforcing information bubble

like I was at Walmart & Costco today, there ain't no boycott going on, bro

both were packed

The tariffs haven’t kicked in yet.  Look, I’m the most pro-American person in my social circle and I’m invested in the U.S., but the Canadian nationalism and anti-American sentiment is palpable right now.  We never boo the U.S. national anthem, but it’s happening in our sports stadiums right now, which tells you what average Canadians are feeling.  Does it matter to America?  Do we lose more financially than they do?  Perhaps, but that doesn’t mean America can’t lose in this situation.  It’s a gamble and the impacts haven’t hit yet.  

[suds]

16 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

they can get away with punching Canada & Mexico in the face

China, not so much, but that is why the tariff is only 10% on China

I was on the understanding that China was already paying some fairly heavy tariffs (in some cases 100%) and is the main reason it was only 10%.

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, suds said:

I was on the understanding that China was already paying some fairly heavy tariffs (in some cases 100%) and is the main reason it was only 10%.

They are.  Biden maintained Trump’s China tariffs.  

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The tariffs haven’t kicked in yet.  Look, I’m the most pro-American person in my social circle and I’m invested in the U.S., but the Canadian nationalism and anti-American sentiment is palpable right now.  We never boo the U.S. national anthem, but it’s happening in our sports stadiums right now, which tells you what average Canadians are feeling.  Does it matter to America?  Do we lose more financially than they do?  Perhaps, but that doesn’t mean America can’t lose in this situation.  It’s a gamble and the impacts haven’t hit yet.  

I think you're in the wishful thinking zone

most people are not political

it's like my wife refuses to leave Canada, she refuses to move to America

she despises Trump

but she's not boycotting nor anything like that

the immigrants are not going to boycott,

young people don't care, they are not giving up their iPhones cuz tariffs

Canadians don't like Trump,  but they are not giving up Costco & Walmart & MacDonald's en masse

don't take this forum of evidence of anything, Normies don't act like this

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, suds said:

I was on the understanding that China was already paying some fairly heavy tariffs (in some cases 100%) and is the main reason it was only 10%.

I don't think so

China could do way more damage than Mexico & Canada

business is also not going to move from China to the USA, that's only gonna come from Mexico & Canada

 

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

I think you're in the wishful thinking zone

most people are not political

it's like my wife refuses to leave Canada, she refuses to move to America

she despises Trump

but she's not boycotting nor anything like that

the immigrants are not going to boycott,

young people don't care, they are not giving up their iPhones cuz tariffs

Canadians don't like Trump,  but they are not giving up Costco & Walmart & MacDonald's en masse

don't take this forum of evidence of anything, Normies don't act like this

I would agree that most people right now are too oblivious, busy, caught up in feeding their urges, etc.  Like I said with regard to US sentiment, attitudes change when people start feeling the pain: job losses, higher prices, media messaging, etc.  That’s when people lose their shit and politicians are forced to take action.  Again, maybe it won’t be a big deal in the U.S., but I have the feeling that if Canadians and Mexicans suffer because of this, you will see Boycotts and actions that Americans will feel.  It’s just human nature.  We may be the weaker party, but no one likes Goliath winning against David, especially when Goliath started the fight.

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Kokanee, not Coors. Molson, not Bud.

Corones! Olé! 

5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Why just "red states"?

The US is punishing our entire country not just Liberal provinces.

To sow a little division I guess.

 

[Dougie93]

32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Again, maybe it won’t be a big deal in the U.S.,

well, Canadians are taking it way more personally than Americans would

for Americans, this is just business

they might be put out by the supply chain being disrupted

but Americans don't think it's America's job to employ Canadians

other than those who live right on the border, Americans don't pay any mind to Canada

I don't expect they're going to be protesting in the streets for Canada

foreigners are abstract to Americans

mostly I think American businesses will just start lobbying the Administration for exemptions from the tariffs

 

[NAME REMOVED]

5 hours ago, suds said:

I don't see the U.S. as a 'hostile power'. 

Most of the World now sees America as a hostile power. All of Europe, Latin America, and Canada. This is on top of the the traditional adversaries of the US in most Muslim countries, Russia, etc.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Yes it is.

I went away for a while and can see you are still the A$$hole you were before. LOL

Did you? I didn't notice

But no it isn't and i explained in detail why.

And I can see you're still breaking down in tears rather than making intelligent counter arguments   

[NAME REMOVED]

4 hours ago, suds said:

You're probably right. I admit I was also wrong in not believing that Trump would take this thing this far. But we do have time to rectify the situation if saner heads prevail. Trump really isn't interested in Trudeau's plan over spending $1.3 billion for security over the next 6 years. He wants things done now. We might also have to get rid of a few sacred cows. If it makes good economic sense it's not necessarily appeasement.

This has nothing to do with border security. Trump and his MAGA minions keep slipping up, and stating more legitimate reasons for tariffs. It's widely believed that Trump wants to replace all income tax revenue with revenue created with tariffs. This would only be of benefit for the richest Americans, while the Middle and Working class is forced to pay more for food, housing, transportation, and everyday items. 

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, suds said:

In 2011, Obama and the Harper administration signed a deal to increase trade cooperation on addressing security concerns and reducing trade barriers. So even back then, national security played an important role for opening  borders to another country for trade purposes.

You can't just say "security" and pass it off as being relevant today or the same issue that trump is talking about. The us and canada are always fine tuning things, trudeau did a deal with the us as well updating the refugee laws, but that doesn't mean it's what the issue is now. Improving coordination is always a good thing and quite frankly we had as many problems to discuss as they did at the time. Tracking guns that come across the border for example.

Quote

"It's a bunch of pilot projects, it talks about improving co-operation with respect to certain things, but frankly I don't see the kind of changes that are going to be necessary to ensure that we continue to have strong, unharassed access to the U.S. market".  

And he was wrong. It didn't stop about Obama from doing business with us, or trump, or Biden. Wasn't an issue. You are talking about 14 years ago, do you honestly believe they have been angry about it ever since and just never said anything? That's just not how it works

And it does show that when we did talk about things that needed Improvement Canada was willing partner to examine changes and so was the us. We have made a number of minor changes along the border to address issues over the years.

You don't launch a trade war without even sitting down with someone to negotiate or discuss over security. That is just not a thing.

I absolutely guarantee you on a stack of $10,000 bills as high as you'd like that this is not about security. Like I said, border security is an American issue, they don't stop at our customs agents on their way into the states. The first security they hit is Americas, and they are not smuggling fentanyl in any substantial quantity across the border on foot. They fly it in planes and they drive it in trucks and that means it's the American customs people that are the first people that get a chance to try and intercept it, not Canada.

I have little doubt that if Canada offers something in the way of additional security they will happily take it because why not but that is not why this is happening

 

[August1991]

On 2/1/2025 at 5:42 PM, betsy said:

Danielle Smith has the practical solution to this tariff threat. 

Instead of threatening Trump with a counter tariff on American goods, we should show Trump that we are serious with meeting the demand on border security.   She's right in saying that we should appoint a border czar, who'll work with the US counterpart.

....

From what I understand, this is the correct response.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Just saw that American orange balloon on the TV saying, “they owe us a lot of money”. Does Dominion owe me money because I bought stuff there? 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, suds said:

I don't recall ever saying Canada increasing military spending to 2% was the only issue. It's also a combination of National Security issues, fantanyl, and election promises such as bringing manufacturing jobs back to the U.S. and getting rid of trade deficits.

You presented it as a major issue, one of the primary, possibly THE prmiary.  If you didn't intend it to sound that way you need to be more clear,

Truth is It's not even AN issue really. Sorry.  At best it's a super minor point to be addressed later or as a lucky add on to the real issues. And no the drugs aren't the issue and i've explained why. He knows perfectly well the problems with dug smuggling aren't coming from people walking across the border from canada, they're in trucks and planes etc coming across us border crossings. 

Just like he knows there's no such thing as a 'subsidy' for Canada, that's just a boldfaced lie. 

this is about trade. Or it wouldn't include mexico and china.  It's that simple. Everything else is a distraction to try to justify it

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 minutes ago, August1991 said:

From what I understand, this is the correct response.

There is no real fentanyl crisis on our border. That’s a straight lie. To discuss that seriously is to humour a delusion. Fact: we’re not going to completely eliminate fentanyl from our country and therefore we can’t guarantee that a tiny percentage of that won’t leak across the border. 

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Just saw that American orange balloon on the TV saying, “they owe us a lot of money”. Does Dominion owe me money because I bought stuff there? 

Absolutely, you should tariff them  

Trump lies to get what he wants and always has and always will, this surprises no one. 

ANd here's a fun fact, if you take energy out of the equasion we actually have a trade deficit.  So that surplus is because we sell them oil and power at BELOW market rates.  

That's why we can't afford to back down on this stuff. 

1 minute ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

There is no real fentanyl crisis on our border. That’s a straight lie. To discuss that seriously is to humour a delusion. Fact: we’re not going to completely eliminate fentanyl from our country and therefore we can’t guarantee that a tiny percentage of that won’t leak across the border. 

And what does go across the border is going across the border crossings in cars and trucks  which means the us customs is the only people in a position to do anything about it 

[suds]

26 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

This has nothing to do with border security. Trump and his MAGA minions keep slipping up, and stating more legitimate reasons for tariffs. It's widely believed that Trump wants to replace all income tax revenue with revenue created with tariffs. This would only be of benefit for the richest Americans, while the Middle and Working class is forced to pay more for food, housing, transportation, and everyday items. 

If this has nothing to do with U.S. security then why is the U.S. threatening Panama who they have a huge trade surplus with??  It's because the canal has great strategic importance militarily in getting U.S. warships from the Pacific theatre to the Atlantic and vice versa. The canal is supposed to be neutral but in reality it's the Chinese government who's in charge of canal operations. That's what the stink is about.

[herbie]

7 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

The US is punishing our entire country not just Liberal provinces.

The mango M0ron thinks we're just one big state. Offering a country bigger than his own a whole 2% stake if it sells itself out and submits to his dream of anschluss.

Now we know what Ukraine negotiating with Russia was like pre-invasion.
Cancel all military purchases from US suppliers except those destined for Ukraine next.

Edited February 3 by herbie

[suds]

30 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You can't just say "security" and pass it off as being relevant today or the same issue that trump is talking about. The us and canada are always fine tuning things, trudeau did a deal with the us as well updating the refugee laws, but that doesn't mean it's what the issue is now. Improving coordination is always a good thing and quite frankly we had as many problems to discuss as they did at the time. Tracking guns that come across the border for example.

And he was wrong. It didn't stop about Obama from doing business with us, or trump, or Biden. Wasn't an issue. You are talking about 14 years ago, do you honestly believe they have been angry about it ever since and just never said anything? That's just not how it works

And it does show that when we did talk about things that needed Improvement Canada was willing partner to examine changes and so was the us. We have made a number of minor changes along the border to address issues over the years.

You don't launch a trade war without even sitting down with someone to negotiate or discuss over security. That is just not a thing.

I absolutely guarantee you on a stack of $10,000 bills as high as you'd like that this is not about security. Like I said, border security is an American issue, they don't stop at our customs agents on their way into the states. The first security they hit is Americas, and they are not smuggling fentanyl in any substantial quantity across the border on foot. They fly it in planes and they drive it in trucks and that means it's the American customs people that are the first people that get a chance to try and intercept it, not Canada.

I have little doubt that if Canada offers something in the way of additional security they will happily take it because why not but that is not why this is happening

 

As I've said repeatedly, there are multiple issues. You have your opinions and I have mine. Let's leave it at that.