The sad state of Canadian leadership concerning Israel and the middle east

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

Why do you think Israel has no right to defend itself?  How would you do it?  How would you eliminate Hamas?  Or do you think they should be left to attack again?

I have said it again and again and again. Israel must go after the head of octopus (the Islamic Republic). Attack the leaders and military targets only. Blowing up a school or hospital killing 20 civilians women and children as well as 2 terrorists is not the way. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, suds said:

And perhaps the question should be if Israel had the right to exist as a Jewish state.

There certainly would have been a better case to be made about 1400 years ago I think.

[suds]

55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

There certainly would have been a better case to be made about 1400 years ago I think.

I was looking at a CBC poll.  Most Canadians support Israel but they also support a Palestinian state (as do I but not the river to the sea kind).  The thing is.... is it just a cop-out or can you have both?

Edited October 14, 2024 by suds

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

those claiming tp follow him are calling for more use of lethal weapons against defenseless civilians is shocking.

Another bold-faced lie.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I have said it again and again and again. Israel must go after the head of octopus (the Islamic Republic). Attack the leaders and military targets only.

So just leave Hamas and Hezbollah alone so they can continue to attack Israel at will.

[CITIZEN_2015]

12 hours ago, blackbird said:

Another bold-faced lie.

So why you demanded Canada to give more lethal weapons to Israel? You wanted Israelis to eat those lethal weapons or to use it on Gaza and Lebanon?

[CITIZEN_2015]

11 hours ago, blackbird said:

So just leave Hamas and Hezbollah alone so they can continue to attack Israel at will.

Remove the head of octopus and the legs will die soon but jeep cutting the legs killing many women and children in the process, the octopus will grow new legs.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Neither side will listen to us if we try to get involved so why bother? The Chrétien method seems sensible: say something incomprehensible and leave it at that. 

[taxme]

On 10/11/2024 at 12:12 PM, blackbird said:

"

Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly shockingly admitted her riding’s demographics influence her foreign policies and is attempting to bolster her leadership prospects. With that background, she refused to send lethal and even non-lethal weapons to Israel and confirmed funding for UNRWA hours after it acknowledged it had employed the slain Hamas leader. Joly pretends to support Israel’s right to defend itself but insisted it should not respond, to avoid “further escalation,” after Iran launched 180 missiles into Israel. The same argument was made by Neville Chamberlain after Hitler seized the Sudetenland.

Why is the Canadian government treating a state sponsor of terrorism with kid gloves? What about the Liberal refrain that it will always protect women, the LGBTQ community and minorities from appalling discrimination? Canada’s voice is inaudible to Israelis, given its virtue-signalling hypocrisy, and to everyone else tired of hectoring from a defence free-rider. If the government is determined to be of no practical assistance to a democratic ally under intense siege on seven fronts, at least its diplomacy should reflect Canadian values, which means being on the right side of a defining global conflict.

Justin Trudeau has failed the minimum requirements for decency, moral clarity and national self-interest. Is it due to a desperate concern about vanishing votes in selected ridings, a lack of strategic vision, or a twisted post-modern ideology? Regardless, the sooner Canada is rid of the moral rot, the sooner Canadians can hold their heads high again."

Joe Oliver: Canada’s irresolute response to Iranian terror reeks of moral rot (msn.com)

That shitty little country called Israel is going to start WW3 if nobody tries to stop that shitty little good for nothing country. Israel bombing Iran is asking for big time trouble. Russia has sent battle ships in the area to protect Iran. Zionist Israel is working on trying to start WW 3. Sadly, no politician in Canada or America nor the MSM corporate media will dare criticize Israel for what they are doing if they want to keep their corporate jobs and knows what is good for them. 

Let the Arabs the Jews go at it themselves. Why do we the Canadian and American people have to be forced to suck up to Israel? Just my opinion. 

[taxme]

On 10/14/2024 at 6:55 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So why you demanded Canada to give more lethal weapons to Israel? You wanted Israelis to eat those lethal weapons or to use it on Gaza and Lebanon?

We must all bend the knee to Israel. Israel is nothing more than a shitty little country out in the desert and produces and offers nothing to the world except sadness and sorrow and mayhem. What the phk is Israel really good for anyway? Anyone here able to tell me as to why Canadians and Americans have to die for Israel because that is what is going to happen if no one tries to shut Israel down soon. Israel collects billions of tax dollars from North American taxpayer's and what do we get for our tax dollars? Maybe WW3 that could be just around the corner thanks to that shitty little country.

Just saying.  

[taxme]

On 10/11/2024 at 8:17 PM, Old Guy said:

The problem is Zionism coupled with a religious belief that God gave them all the land between the Red Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. Zionists believe  its theirs and that they don't have to share. Their over reach is astounding and has reached the point where they are bombing UN Peace Keepers around the Red line.  They will if they don't rein in their blood lust loose the support of their allies in Western Europe.  

The Zionists do own and run Israel along with owning Canada and America. Why does Canada and America constantly support a shitty little country in the desert like Zionist Israel? What the hell is Israel good for anyway? Anyone here can tell me?

And AIPAC is the official arm of Zionist Israel in America. Not one politician nor the MSM would dare criticize Israel or AIPAC if they want to keep their jobs. That is how things really work in North America. Believe it or not. 😇

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

 Anyone here able to tell me as to why Canadians and Americans have to die for Israel because that is what is going to happen if no one tries to shut Israel down soon. Israel collects billions of tax dollars from North American taxpayer's and what do we get for our tax dollars?

I can tell you why. The very strong very powerful Zionist lobbyists in Washington and Canada and UK.

[blackbird]

17 hours ago, taxme said:

That shitty little country called Israel is going to start WW3 if nobody tries to stop that shitty little good for nothing country.

I suggest you do some studying about the history of Israel.

"Social and political developments in Europe convinced Jews they needed their own country, and their ancestral homeland seemed like the right place to establish it. European Jews — 90 percent of all Jews at the time — arrived at Zionism partly because of rising antisemitic persecution and partly because the Enlightenment introduced Jews to secular nationalism. Between 1896 and 1948, hundreds of thousands of Jews resettled from Europe to what was then British-controlled Palestine, including large numbers forced out of Europe during the Holocaust."

The fact is they have been persecuted for 2,000 years and much of it by Europe and the RC Church.

So it is understandable that they would want their own country back after being driven out of it centuries ago.

The world in general is anti-Semitic and their only choice is to return to their homeland of Israel which they did over the past century.

Israel-Palestine conflict: How did Israel become a country | Vox

[taxme]

On 10/30/2024 at 10:09 AM, blackbird said:

I suggest you do some studying about the history of Israel.

"Social and political developments in Europe convinced Jews they needed their own country, and their ancestral homeland seemed like the right place to establish it. European Jews — 90 percent of all Jews at the time — arrived at Zionism partly because of rising antisemitic persecution and partly because the Enlightenment introduced Jews to secular nationalism. Between 1896 and 1948, hundreds of thousands of Jews resettled from Europe to what was then British-controlled Palestine, including large numbers forced out of Europe during the Holocaust."

The fact is they have been persecuted for 2,000 years and much of it by Europe and the RC Church.

So it is understandable that they would want their own country back after being driven out of it centuries ago.

The world in general is anti-Semitic and their only choice is to return to their homeland of Israel which they did over the past century.

Israel-Palestine conflict: How did Israel become a country | Vox

At least you have admitted that there was once a country called Palestine. 

(1)Why were Jews persecuted so much? What did they do to be persecuted so much? Jews were kicked out of many countries in the past because of their unwillingness to not try and get along with the locals of those many countries. 

(2)It is understandable than as to why the Palestinian people want their Palestine back that was stolen from them by the Jews in 1949. 

(3)There must be a very good reason as to why Jews are despised so much? Helen Thomas(a Lebanese American reporter)once said that the Jews should get out of Palestine and go back to Europe where they came from. 

Just asking. 😇

[blackbird]

21 minutes ago, taxme said:

At least you have admitted that there was once a country called Palestine. 

There never was a country called "Palestine".   That is a name for the general area given to it by the Roman Empire in the time the Roman Empire ruled that part of the world.  The name was invented as a direct insult against Israel and is a derivative of the word Philistine.  The Philistines were an enemy of Israel in Old Testament times.  Perhaps you heard the story of David and Goliath.  Goliath was a giant soldier of the Philistines who David fought against when he was  little kid.  Goliath had a huge sword and protected by armor.   The Bible story tells what happened.  David was a young person who took on Goliath and hit him with his slingshot and then took Goliath's huge sword and killed him with it.

Israel existed long before the Roman Empire took over a couple thousand years ago. 

Here is a brief history of Israel from Wikipedia.

"

The history of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel begins in the 2nd millennium BCE, when Israelites emerged as an outgrowth of southern Canaanites.^[1][2][3][4] During biblical times, a postulated United Kingdom of Israel existed but then split into two Israelite kingdoms occupying the highland zone: the Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) in the north, and the Kingdom of Judah in the south.^[5] The Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Neo-Assyrian Empire (circa 722 BCE), and the Kingdom of Judah by the Neo-Babylonian Empire (586 BCE). Initially exiled to Babylon, upon the defeat of the Neo-Babylonian Empire by the Achaemenid Empire under Cyrus the Great (538 BCE), many of the Jewish exiles returned to Jerusalem, building the Second Temple.

In 332 BCE the kingdom of Macedonia under Alexander the Great conquered the Achaemenid Empire, which included Yehud (Judea). This event started a long religious struggle that split the Jewish population into traditional and Hellenized components. After the religion-driven Maccabean Revolt, the independent Hasmonean Kingdom was established in 165 BCE. In 64 BCE, the Roman Republic conquered Judea, first subjugating it as a client state before ultimately converting it into a Roman province in 6 CE. Although coming under the sway of various empires and home to a variety of ethnicities, the area of ancient Israel was predominantly Jewish until the Jewish–Roman wars of 66–136 CE. The wars commenced a long period of violence, enslavement, expulsion, displacement, forced conversion, and forced migration against the local Jewish population by the Roman Empire (and successor Byzantine State), beginning the Jewish diaspora.

After this time, Jews became a minority in most regions, except Galilee. After the 3rd century, the area became increasingly Christianized, although the proportions of Christians and Jews are unknown, the former perhaps coming to predominate in urban areas, the latter remaining in rural areas.^[6] By the time of the Muslim conquest of the Levant, the number of Jewish population centers had declined from over 160 to around 50 settlements. Michael Avi-Yonah says that Jews constituted 10–15% of Palestine's population by the time of the Sasanian conquest of Jerusalem in 614,^[7] while Moshe Gil says that Jews constituted the majority of the population until the 7th century Muslim conquest in 638 CE.^[8] Remaining Jews in Palestine fought alongside Muslims during the Crusades, and were persecuted under the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia

21 minutes ago, taxme said:

(2)It is understandable than as to why the Palestinian people want their Palestine back that was stolen from them by the Jews in 1949. 

 It is not Palestinian land.  There was no actual country called Palestine to begin with.   So called Palestinians are Arabs who lived in the area which actually belonged to Israel long before 1949.   The history is above.  This has been Israel's land for several thousand years but has been fought over at various times ever since.  

21 minutes ago, taxme said:

(3)There must be a very good reason as to why Jews are despised so much?

There are reasons but they are not "good" reasons.  You need to do some studying.  I am not going to waste my time on here trying to explain why many countries in Europe persecuted the Jews the past 1,800 years because you don't accept what I say anyway.  So if you are serious in wanting to know there are books and countless articles on the internet.

It all culminated with the Nazis Holocaust.  If you think all the persecution and murder of six million Jews was all right or that is must have been justified your brain is completely wrecked.  You need help.  I don't see any sign that anything I say will change your mind in the slightest.  

Edited November 1, 2024 by blackbird

[taxme]

15 minutes ago, blackbird said:

There never was a country called "Palestine".   That is a name for the general area given to it by the Roman Empire in the time the Roman Empire ruled that part of the world.  The names was invented as a direct insult against Israel and is a derivative of the word Philistine.  The Philistines were an enemy of Israel in Old Testament times.  Perhaps you heard the story of David and Goliath.  Goliath was a giant soldier of the Philistines who David fought against when he was  little kid.  Goliath had a huge sword and protected by armor.   The Bible story tells what happened.  David was a young person who took on Goliath and hit him with his slingshot and then took Goliath's huge sword and killed him with it.

Israel existed long before the Roman Empire took over a couple thousand years ago. 

Here is a brief history of Israel from Wikipedia.

"

The history of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel begins in the 2nd millennium BCE, when Israelites emerged as an outgrowth of southern Canaanites.^[1][2][3][4] During biblical times, a postulated United Kingdom of Israel existed but then split into two Israelite kingdoms occupying the highland zone: the Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) in the north, and the Kingdom of Judah in the south.^[5] The Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Neo-Assyrian Empire (circa 722 BCE), and the Kingdom of Judah by the Neo-Babylonian Empire (586 BCE). Initially exiled to Babylon, upon the defeat of the Neo-Babylonian Empire by the Achaemenid Empire under Cyrus the Great (538 BCE), many of the Jewish exiles returned to Jerusalem, building the Second Temple.

In 332 BCE the kingdom of Macedonia under Alexander the Great conquered the Achaemenid Empire, which included Yehud (Judea). This event started a long religious struggle that split the Jewish population into traditional and Hellenized components. After the religion-driven Maccabean Revolt, the independent Hasmonean Kingdom was established in 165 BCE. In 64 BCE, the Roman Republic conquered Judea, first subjugating it as a client state before ultimately converting it into a Roman province in 6 CE. Although coming under the sway of various empires and home to a variety of ethnicities, the area of ancient Israel was predominantly Jewish until the Jewish–Roman wars of 66–136 CE. The wars commenced a long period of violence, enslavement, expulsion, displacement, forced conversion, and forced migration against the local Jewish population by the Roman Empire (and successor Byzantine State), beginning the Jewish diaspora.

After this time, Jews became a minority in most regions, except Galilee. After the 3rd century, the area became increasingly Christianized, although the proportions of Christians and Jews are unknown, the former perhaps coming to predominate in urban areas, the latter remaining in rural areas.^[6] By the time of the Muslim conquest of the Levant, the number of Jewish population centers had declined from over 160 to around 50 settlements. Michael Avi-Yonah says that Jews constituted 10–15% of Palestine's population by the time of the Sasanian conquest of Jerusalem in 614,^[7] while Moshe Gil says that Jews constituted the majority of the population until the 7th century Muslim conquest in 638 CE.^[8] Remaining Jews in Palestine fought alongside Muslims during the Crusades, and were persecuted under the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia

 It is not Palestinian land.  So called Palestinians are Arabs who lived in the area which actually belonged to Israel long before 1949.   The history is above.  This has been Israel's land for several thousand years but has been fought over at various times ever since.  

There are reasons but they are not "good" reasons.  You need to do some studying.  I am not going to waste my time on here trying to explain why many countries in Europe persecuted the Jews the past 1,800 years because you don't accept what I say anyway.  So if you are serious in wanting to know there are books and countless articles on the internet.

It all culminated with the Nazis Holocaust.  If you think all the persecution and murder of six million Jews was all right or that is must have been justified your brain is completely wrecked.  You need help.  I don't see any sign that anything I say will change your mind in the slightest.  

That is a bloody lie. Then why are there a people in the world called Palestinians? Did they just called themselves Palestinians for fun? 

It looks to me like you are trying to run away from my question? Again, I will ask you. Why are Jews so hated in the world and why were they thrown out of so many countries in the past? What have they done to deserve this hatred? Stop giving me a long spiel of words here. Just answer the bloody question. WHY? 😇

[blackbird]

Just now, taxme said:

That is a bloody lie. Then why are there a people in the world called Palestinians? Did they just called themselves Palestinians for fun? 

Same reason aboriginals in north America were called Indians for hundreds of years.  Just a name given to people who live in a certain area.  Palestine was a name given to that area of the middle east by the Roman Empire 2,000 years ago and the people who lived in the area were called Palestinians.  

[taxme]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Same reason aboriginals in north America were called Indians for hundreds of years.  Just a name given to people who live in a certain area.  Palestine was a name given to that area of the middle east by the Roman Empire 2,000 years ago and the people who lived in the area were called Palestinians.  

Are you daft or are you a spokesthingy for the Jews? The Palestinians? They were kicked of their land by Jews in 1949. The Jews stole their land. Short, sweet and simple. 🙄

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

Are you daft or are you a spokesthingy for the Jews? The Palestinians? They were kicked of their land by Jews in 1949. The Jews stole their land. Short, sweet and simple. 🙄

I guess you could say the north American natives owned north America then and we the white people of European descent invaded their land and took over.

[Army Guy]

17 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I guess you could say the north American natives owned north America then and we the white people of European descent invaded their land and took over.

Look at the UK , the dutch, french, Spain,even the US shit you could almost list every nation on the globe at one time...all have conquered lands and not once been forced to give them back...but then again they are not jews are they...

[suds]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

It looks to me like you are trying to run away from my question? Again, I will ask you. Why are Jews so hated in the world and why were they thrown out of so many countries in the past? What have they done to deserve this hatred? Stop giving me a long spiel of words here. Just answer the bloody question. WHY? 😇

Xenophobia has been part of the human condition since the beginning of recorded history. Today, Christians are persecuted to some extent in over three quarters of the world's countries. Muslims are a close second. It's persecution motivated by religious identity. It's fair to say that Jews have been the victims of that same xenophobia. But unlike Christians and Muslims they had no safe retreat until 1948. I hope this helps.

[Gaétan]

On 10/11/2024 at 3:12 PM, blackbird said:

"

Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly shockingly admitted her riding’s demographics influence her foreign policies and is attempting to bolster her leadership prospects. With that background, she refused to send lethal and even non-lethal weapons to Israel and confirmed funding for UNRWA hours after it acknowledged it had employed the slain Hamas leader. Joly pretends to support Israel’s right to defend itself but insisted it should not respond, to avoid “further escalation,” after Iran launched 180 missiles into Israel. 

The Liberals are hypocrites, they send bombs to the US to be sent to Israel, the police should put them in jail for their complicity in genocide, but there is only justice in Canada against the poor, not against the big criminals. You are motivated by religion, but Israel is not the center of the world, as your gurus think, but the great whore of the beast of the Apocalypse. Jesus says this to those who rejected him and it is addressed to Israel: Mt 10.15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

Edited November 2, 2024 by Gaétan

[CITIZEN_2015]

On 10/30/2024 at 1:09 PM, blackbird said:

I suggest you do some studying about the history of Israel.

"Social and political developments in Europe convinced Jews they needed their own country, and their ancestral homeland seemed like the right place to establish it. European Jews — 90 percent of all Jews at the time — arrived at Zionism partly because of rising antisemitic persecution and partly because the Enlightenment introduced Jews to secular nationalism. Between 1896 and 1948, hundreds of thousands of Jews resettled from Europe to what was then British-controlled Palestine, including large numbers forced out of Europe during the Holocaust."

The fact is they have been persecuted for 2,000 years and much of it by Europe and the RC Church.

So it is understandable that they would want their own country back after being driven out of it centuries ago.

The world in general is anti-Semitic and their only choice is to return to their homeland of Israel which they did over the past century.

Israel-Palestine conflict: How did Israel become a country | Vox

A piece of Germany who was the country responsible for suffering of the jews should have been given to European jews not Palestine and Germans kicked out, not Palestinians/

[suds]

5 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

A piece of Germany who was the country responsible for suffering of the jews should have been given to European jews not Palestine and Germans kicked out, not Palestinians/

So if a piece of Germany was offered to European Jews, would you have stayed? Some did regardless. In most cases they left and went to the U.S. or Palestine. There are always different reasons for people doing what they do. I don't think I'd want to stay  where a mass genocide of my people took place unless there were no other reasonable alternatives. After the war ended, the Mandate for Palestine was still in effect which had already given Transjordan to the Arabs, and was to create a national homeland for Jews in Palestine alongside the Palestinians. If I were old I might choose to stay or go to the U.S.  If I were younger and was willing to make a new start in life, I'd choose Israel. Or maybe you don't believe the Jews should have had a choice in the matter?

Edited November 2, 2024 by suds

[WestCanMan]

On 10/11/2024 at 8:17 PM, Old Guy said:

The problem is Zionism coupled with a religious belief that God gave them all the land between the Red Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. Zionists believe  its theirs and that they don't have to share. Their over reach is astounding and has reached the point where they are bombing UN Peace Keepers around the Red line.  They will if they don't rein in their blood lust loose the support of their allies in Western Europe.  

Your limited, Iran-driven POV is duly noted. Thanks for the propaganda.