The Only Patriotic Choice for President

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Oh, it went right over my head. Now that I get it, that's funny (and true))

I used to go to Daytona in the winter... and they had a bunch of beachfront family-owned businesses that were basically confiscated by local government (with compensation) and these people lost their livlihoods.

 

It's money helping money, everywhere you look.  I have videos of these poor rubes who think Trump is Robin Hood and will swoop in and help them....

[Hodad]

22 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

Yes. Everything Marx wrote was based on the underpinning that labor was the most important factor and inherently those who own the factories/businesses are inherently exploiting labor. My view is that you choose to work and therefore know what comes with it. If you do not want to be labor (the human that transforms raw inputs into finished outputs) then be self employed. Thousands do it every day. Again, I come at this from the economics standpoint being that I have 2 degrees in it and have read the book for an economics course. 

Well now that you've "confessed" to being educated, you've lost your audience.

[SkyHigh]

45 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Finally found time to address this.

Unemployment insurance does exist in the US and Europe. So does worker compensation. 

But health care doesn't, I'm not sure of the specific number but I'm pretty sure that a majority of Americans get their health insurance through their employer. That alone makes it exponentially more difficult to not only leave your job, but even more difficult to be able to employ others. If I had to provide benefits for my employees when I was just starting my event production company I would never have been able to offer for example: competitive salaries, to engage people that were at the top of their fields.

I don't know enough about things like how easy it is to practice your chosen profession between the states to compare, but I do know how easy it was for me to maintain insurance, accreditation, licenses etc,. When I had contracts in other provinces (and I lived in Quebec, maybe the most isolationist province the country)

As well he BDC has some amazing services particularly during the start up of small businesses.

[SkyHigh]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I used to go to Daytona in the winter... and they had a bunch of beachfront family-owned businesses that were basically confiscated by local government (with compensation) and these people lost their livlihoods.

 

It's money helping money, everywhere you look.  I have videos of these poor rubes who think Trump is Robin Hood and will swoop in and help them....

Honestly, as an outsider, I always struggle on how to think about these types. Part of me wants to laugh, and part of me feels deep empathy , but if I'm being truly honest, because I know that there's nothing I can do to change closed minds.

I mostly laugh.

[CdnFox]

7 hours ago, SkyHigh said:

I'm flattered, but as I already told you I'm not interested, I date women exclusively 

LOL and like most lefties on this board the moment you lose any kind of discussion or don't have an answer you begin having bizarre sexual fantasies    Can't ANY of you find a mate in the real world?

In any case, still no answer. Well there you go. 

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Therefore someone who doesn't know ANYTHING about it and "gets the gist of it" can discuss with you on an equal footing.... but ONLY if they are a Chud who has no respect for knowledge and whose ego can't bear the idea of not knowing something that someone else knows...

Ahh more of that 'reasoned debate' you claim to crave so  often   

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

  Part of me wants to laugh, and part of me feels deep empathy , 

I try to feel empathy.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Finally found time to address this.

Unemployment insurance does exist in the US and Europe. So does worker compensation. 

Well more importantly, you were speaking about rights, and then he tried to change the channel to "gov't programs i like". 

Nobody has the "Right" to unemployment insurance in Canada. If the gov't took it away tomorrow you'd have to live without it and for those of us old enough to remember that's EXACTLY what Chretien did, he just decided one day that half the benefits you used to get under EI  were gone out of the blue (and then pocketed 70 billion from the ei fund now that it woulnd't be needed and pretended to run surpluses). 

In reality Canada has far fewer rights including human rights then Americans. But I don't think he wanted to address that point. I think he wanted to turn the point into canada has more social programs that he likes

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Even beyond that, trying to frame an ideology with objective descriptions, and dispassionate tones enrages them 

An ideology is just a template for social/political/economic behaviour. 

Hitler used a gesundheitspass to demonize Jews, accusing them of having Typhus, etc.

Trudeau used a gesundheitspass to ostracize conservatives.

They both seized bank accounts of dissidents. They both believe in bombarding people with lies until they become 'facts'. They control the police, and demonize all forms of opposition. Hitler burned books, which in the modern era is controlling social media. 

There's nothing objective about any of that. 

Hitler created a template, Biden and Trudeau follow it. 

[Nationalist]

21 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well more importantly, you were speaking about rights, and then he tried to change the channel to "gov't programs i like". 

Nobody has the "Right" to unemployment insurance in Canada. If the gov't took it away tomorrow you'd have to live without it and for those of us old enough to remember that's EXACTLY what Chretien did, he just decided one day that half the benefits you used to get under EI  were gone out of the blue (and then pocketed 70 billion from the ei fund now that it woulnd't be needed and pretended to run surpluses). 

In reality Canada has far fewer rights including human rights then Americans. But I don't think he wanted to address that point. I think he wanted to turn the point into canada has more social programs that he likes

You are correct about UI. It doesn't really qualify as a "freedom".

[SkyHigh]

38 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I try to feel empathy.

I was fortunate to grow up in very multicultural areas, in fact more then once in primary my class was majority visible minorities, there were of course more white people than any other "ethnicity" but I don't think we represented 50% of the students.

I've also lived and worked in smaller communities. 20 years I lived in Montreal (I just recently left) and even though I speak French very well, I still have an accent that immediately identifies me as an English speaker. So sometimes the first conversation I have with a local they immediately don't trust me, it doesn't take long for them to realize that, after all not all anglophones are evil and I'm originally from Toronto so I work directly for the devil, but  that's what they've been taught from birth and there have been times I'm literally the first english person they've ever conversed with, they don't know any better.

I think this is the same ignorance that leads to xenophobia (racism to call a spade a spade) and all the other isms. but I also sincerely believe that most people are good and given the opportunity to interact with people outside of the "us" they've been patterned to think the "they" are coming to get them, could and do often accept good people no matter their origins. Once you had a beer with a Muslim you realize pretty quick people are people 

So to me empathy is often my first instinct.

[CdnFox]

Just now, SkyHigh said:

I was fortunate to grow up in very multicultural areas, in fact more then once in primary my class was majority visible minorities, there were of course more white people than any other "ethnicity" but I don't think we represented 50% of the students.

I've also lived and worked in smaller communities. 20 years I lived in Montreal (I just recently left) and even though I speak French very well, I still have an accent that immediately identifies me as an English speaker. So sometimes the first conversation I have with a local they immediately don't trust me, it doesn't take long for them to realize that, after all not all anglophones are evil and I'm originally from Toronto so I work directly for the devil, but  that's what they've been taught from birth and there have been times I'm literally the first english person they've ever conversed with, they don't know any better.

I think this is the same ignorance that leads to xenophobia (racism to call a spade a spade) and all the other isms. but I also sincerely believe that most people are good and given the opportunity to interact with people outside of the "us" they've been patterned to think the "they" are coming to get them, could and do often accept good people no matter their origins. Once you had a beer with a Muslim you realize pretty quick people are people 

So to me empathy is often my first instinct.

"i grew up in a middle class family.... "

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

You are correct about UI. It doesn't really qualify as a "freedom".

Well obviously. It's like saying "canada has better car insurance rates so..... MOAR FREEE!!!!!!"  

No. No that's not how it works. 

Americans have property rights that we don't. American speech is more protected. Americans tend to look for a better balance between rights to belief and expression and rights to identity and sexuality etc.  Americans have fewer regulations and gov't control. 

Those are freedoms.  "we have better insurance" isn't a freedom.

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

So to me empathy is often my first instinct.

Unity needs to be actively engineered.  Disunity too, but it's easier to deploy.

[SkyHigh]

15 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

"i grew up in a middle class family.... "

Perfect example, using some silly catch phrase of a foreign politician that I've never mentioned other than to comment on other things she's said I thought were drivel, as some sort of come back or retort, is tired, uninspired and just hacky. It doesn't merit the reflection required to have any kind of meaningful conversation and this applies to most if not all of the interjections you've made in response to my posts.

You're just boring 

 

[SkyHigh]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Unity needs to be actively engineered.  Disunity too, but it's easier to deploy.

Exactly, and much like religious extremism, when introduced young becomes very difficult to counteract.

[SkyHigh]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Well more importantly, you were speaking about rights, and then he tried to change the channel to "gov't programs i like". 

Nobody has the "Right" to unemployment insurance in Canada. If the gov't took it away tomorrow you'd have to live without it and for those of us old enough to remember that's EXACTLY what Chretien did, he just decided one day that half the benefits you used to get under EI  were gone out of the blue (and then pocketed 70 billion from the ei fund now that it woulnd't be needed and pretended to run surpluses). 

In reality Canada has far fewer rights including human rights then Americans. But I don't think he wanted to address that point. I think he wanted to turn the point into canada has more social programs that he likes

How obsessed with me are you? I won't give you the attention you want, so you talk smack about me to people that are actually engaging in good faith conversations?

Sorry kiddo but it won't help your case, I only like girls and even if I did play for the other team, I would still have standards you could never meet

Edited October 8, 2024 by SkyHigh

[WestCanMan]

57 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

I was fortunate to grow up in very multicultural areas,

You were fortunate to grow up in a majority-Christian, western country, because multiculturalism isn't just "tolerated" here, it's codified into laws with real teeth.

Quote

Once you had a beer with a Muslim you realize pretty quick people are people 

Go find a muslim to drink a beer with in Pakistan. Iran. Afghanistan. Iraq. Yemen. Get your mom or sister to come along, without a hijab on. 

I'm sure it's possible to find one that the 3 of you can drink a beer with, but that journey is fraught with perils the likes of which you've never contemplated in Canada, regardless of your skin colour, or what you wear or don't wear.

Ironically your soliloquy, which was intended to display your worldliness, just displayed your overabundance of ignorance.

[CdnFox]

37 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Perfect example, using some silly catch phrase of a foreign politician that I've never mentioned other than to comment on other things she's said I thought were drivel, as some sort of come back or retort, is tired, uninspired and just hacky.

 

Which would presumably make it the perfect example to show your response was drivelish and in fact uninspired and hacky. 

Quote

It doesn't merit the reflection required to have any kind of meaningful conversation and this applies to most if not all of the interjections you've made in response to my posts.

Which is why you took the time to reply.

In fact what you're really upset about is that it relatively accurately reflected the somewhat childish and emotional nature of your reply which really brought nothing to the table. Which is why I said it.

And honestly it really wasn't for you, everyone else will get what I meant.

Quote

You're just boring 

You're just scared

[CdnFox]

29 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

How obsessed with me are you?

Well I always find condescending stupidity to be mildly interesting, but obsessed?  that's just going way too far

30 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

I won't give you the attention you want, so you talk smack about me to people that are actually engaging in good faith conversations?

I'm really sorry to break this to you, but nobody really wants attention from you. I do find some of your more ridiculous statements to be interesting in as far as it's worth discussing them to highlight their Ridiculousness and turn the conversation back to a more honest level.

I kind of thought the idea of who has more rights was interesting. Then when I saw your reply and noted that you were attempting to change the channel on the conversation and make some ludicrous claim that somehow employment insurance is some sort of right that we have that Americans don't it was worth commenting on it and discussing with the person who asked the question whether that constitutes rights or not

Turns out no..

So really the question was far more interesting than you were.

[SkyHigh]

38 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You were fortunate to grow up in a majority-Christian, western country, because multiculturalism isn't just "tolerated" here, it's codified into laws with real teeth

No substance or relevance in that to address 

38 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Go find a muslim to drink a beer with in Pakistan. Iran. Afghanistan. Iraq. Yemen

Go find a Baptist to drink a beer with in the American Bible belt, but neither are relevant to how we can coexist in Canada today.

My first pot dealer(and eventually close friend) when I moved to Montreal was Muslim, went to mosque regularly and was very involved in the community, he also smoked, drank and loved bacon.

We were walking down the street one day and his 70 pound pitbull (the most docile dog ever and I'm scared of dogs) brushed up against some lady, she started going off, after my buddy had apologized numerous times and she began getting more irate and insulting ( the dog with his tongue way out and tail wagging) he responded a little more directly and in tune with the ladies tone. She then yelled "Go back to where you're from" he responded with "Shawinigan"?

That's to whom I'm referring to 

Edited October 8, 2024 by SkyHigh

[SkyHigh]

23 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Which would presumably make it the perfect example to show your response was drivelish and in fact uninspired and hacky. 

Let's have a conversation about this, hopefully we can use this an opportunity to better understand each other and this can lead to more fruitful discussions going forward 

First I'll need some clarification and honestly I say this with no intention but to better understand you.

Are you saying we are Both employing uninspired, partisan drivel ?

I suggest we start fresh here and now and ignore any other threads we have between us that I'm sure you'd agree contain very little attempt on either of our parts to have a productive dialogue. ( I pleage not to react to anything you've responded to, until the response to the one I'm writing now)

The ball is in your court sir 

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Let's have a conversation about this, hopefully we can use this an opportunity to better understand each other and this can lead to more fruitful discussions going forward 

First I'll need some clarification and honestly I say this with no intention but to better understand you.

Are you saying we are Both employing uninspired, partisan drivel ?

I suggest we start fresh here and now and ignore any other threads we have between us that I'm sure you'd agree contain very little attempt on either of our parts to have a productive dialogue. ( I pleage not to react to anything you've responded to, until the response to the one I'm writing now)

The ball is in your court sir 

I"ll be honest, i feel there's better topics to discuss if we're going to do a fresh start but in the  interest of open dialogue to answer your question i would say that to be accurate (and perhaps unnecessarily complicated)  that in this case i referenced partisan drivel in a slightly partisan and drivilish way (tot in a cheap shot at kammy  )  to address what (in my perception) was partisan drivel. 

So yes.  And a bit. 

 

[WestCanMan]

49 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

No substance or relevance in that to address 

You mean, nothing that you want to admit to.

It's true though. 

What are laws like in Canada, France, Britain, Germany, the US, Ireland, Scotland, dummy?

Quote

Go find a Baptist to drink a beer with in the American Bible belt, but neither are relevant to how we can coexist in Canada today.

An enclave of resistance to social norms in Canada = a place of intolerance.

An enclave of resistance to social norms in Pakistan = a place of tolerance.

Do you understand that? 

That is true, dummy. Regardless of whether or not you want to admit it, it is true. 

Quote

My first pot dealer(and eventually close friend) when I moved to Montreal was Muslim, went to mosque regularly and was very involved in the community, he also smoked, drank and loved bacon.

Could he live like that in Gaza? Iran? Pakistan? Iran? Iraq? Yemen? Qatar? 

Would his fellow muslims tolerate that? 

Ask him.

Do you understand that in some muslim countries they still have the death penalty on the books for apostasy? 

Quote

 

We were walking down the street one day and his 70 pound pitbull (the most docile dog ever and I'm scared of dogs) brushed up against some lady, she started going off, after my buddy had apologized numerous times and she began getting more irate and insulting ( the dog with his tongue way out and tail wagging) he responded a little more directly and in tune with the ladies tone. She then yelled "Go back to where you're from" he responded with "Shawinigan"?

 

1. That's an anecdote. 2. That's how a muslim raised in Canada behaves.

FYI the true test of character isn't "what one does when they're powerless", it's what they do when they're in a position of power over someone else.

If he called her a whore for not wearing a hijab, and then raped her, he'd go to jail here. FYI that's not the case everywhere. In Afghanistan and Pakistan the cops would laugh. 

[impartialobserver]

as to the topic.. If I had my way the candidates would be neither Harris nor Trump. Hopefully in 2028, we get a better crop. 

[SkyHigh]

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I"ll be honest, i feel there's better topics to discuss if we're going to do a fresh start but in the  interest of open dialogue to answer your question i would say that to be accurate (and perhaps unnecessarily complicated)  that in this case i referenced partisan drivel in a slightly partisan and drivilish way (tot in a cheap shot at kammy  )  to address what (in my perception) was partisan drivel. 

So yes.  And a bit. 

 

Honestly, I completely agree we could find much better topics, but I think this discussion is a great jumping off point because it deals more with style than substance and I think style is an often neglected aspect of productive dialogue and in my opinion also the major contributor to our problems finding common ground.

Thank you for a honest response, I admit that I often use language and rhetoric when responding to people intentionally to attack the core values they profess to believe, but I think or at least distribute it evenly over both sides., but in this case don't see how anything I've said could be construed as partisan and to be clear it may vary well have been, I just didn't realize.

A little info to maybe understand me better. I started coming here primarily to improve my communication skills in the written language. I'm a strong communicator in person (even I the phone I find it more difficult) but because of my history in the education system, I completely neglected my writing abilities and when you add the ADHD being able to summarize my thoughts coherently on paper is really hard ( if you notice I included a lot of brackets), hahaha ) so I know that sometimes the tone of what I write may come across different than intended or precived 

So again in all sincerity, could you please explain what I said that was partisan? That way I can avoid making the same mistakes.

In life I genuinely pride myself on the conscious effort I made to evaluate all things doing my best to compensate for my confirmation bias and it would bother me if that didn't come through in this forum 

I honestly don't care what people think of me , as long as their opinion actually represents the reality of who I at least aspire to be even if I often fall short