Tariffs are a Tax on Americans

[Rebound]

Trump’s tax plan is terrible for the average American.

A tariff is a tax paid by Americans on the products we buy.  A tariff of 20% means the computers, smartphones, clothing, and most other products you buy will cost 20% more.  China does not pay the tariff, the American taxpayer does. And it is a regressive tax because the poor pay the same rate as the rich.  So it’s great for the rich and sucks for the poor, especially when Trump’s planned tax cuts for the rich and Capitol gains tax cuts are added in. 
 

It’s just the little guy giving money to the rich guy in Trump’s America. Trump’s plan is terrible for most Americans, it’s extremely inflationary, and other nations will retaliate on our exports. 

[User]

So is raising taxes on corporations and "wealthy" private business owners too... 

You guys don't seem to care about that, though. 

[gatomontes99]

All taxes are paid by the end user. I'm glad the left is finally acknowledging that.

What sets tariffs apart from taxes is that they are unequal between competing parties. If you have a US car manufacturer and...let's say...a Chinese car manufacturer and we place a tariff on the Chinese manufacturer, the Chinese manufacturer has an additional cost to the final consumer.

Now, we also need to talk about price elasticity when we talk about any tax (a tariff is a tax). The consumer will only pay a set amount for a given product. When the price is below that amount, the consumer readily buys the product. When the price is above that amount, the consumer is more hesitant.

With that in mind, if a tariff drives the cost to the manufacturer to an amount that is higher than the consumers' tolerance, the manufacturer will have to use less expensive materials, labor or shipping to be competitive. If the cost is increased to what other manufactuers' costs are, then they are now on at equal cost and price to consumer.

Since tariffs target foreign manufacturers, the domestic benefits are to domestic manufacturers, their employees and suppliers.

So, if we put a 100% tariff on Chinese made electric cars than domesticly produced electric cars would benefit. The reason we have to do that is that China takes money from their citizens to give to the manufacturer so that they have a competitive advantage. Further, China suppress wages and plays games with the value of the Yen to create even larger advantages.

This is why both Canada and the US put tariffs on Chinese made electric cars. Both countries did it with very liberal leaders taking up the cause. Blaming Trump or faulting Trump for championing that idea in 2016 and today is as hypocritical as it gets.

[herbie]

Proposing 19th Century Protectionism in the 21st Century is beyond retarded. It's the policy of fools.
You're hearing that from a "leftie" with more conservative economic sense than any Trumpalo.

1 hour ago, User said:

So is raising taxes on corporations and "wealthy" private business owners too... 

Dunderhead. So now your Boss doesn't have to compete in any way other than squeezing your wages. Happy to see just the little picture?

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

All taxes are paid by the end user. I'm glad the left is finally acknowledging that.

What sets tariffs apart from taxes is that they are unequal between competing parties. If you have a US car manufacturer and...let's say...a Chinese car manufacturer and we place a tariff on the Chinese manufacturer, the Chinese manufacturer has an additional cost to the final consumer.

Now, we also need to talk about price elasticity when we talk about any tax (a tariff is a tax). The consumer will only pay a set amount for a given product. When the price is below that amount, the consumer readily buys the product. When the price is above that amount, the consumer is more hesitant.

With that in mind, if a tariff drives the cost to the manufacturer to an amount that is higher than the consumers' tolerance, the manufacturer will have to use less expensive materials, labor or shipping to be competitive. If the cost is increased to what other manufactuers' costs are, then they are now on at equal cost and price to consumer.

Since tariffs target foreign manufacturers, the domestic benefits are to domestic manufacturers, their employees and suppliers.

So, if we put a 100% tariff on Chinese made electric cars than domesticly produced electric cars would benefit. The reason we have to do that is that China takes money from their citizens to give to the manufacturer so that they have a competitive advantage. Further, China suppress wages and plays games with the value of the Yen to create even larger advantages.

This is why both Canada and the US put tariffs on Chinese made electric cars. Both countries did it with very liberal leaders taking up the cause. Blaming Trump or faulting Trump for championing that idea in 2016 and today is as hypocritical as it gets.

^^Every ingredient is here for you to understand why Trump's broad, un-targeted tariffs didn't do anything except hurt Americans--and why they're a bad idea going forward. You just have to draw the conclusion from the facts you already have. It'll hurt for a second, but get it over with like pulling off a band-aid.

 

[gatomontes99]

2 minutes ago, Hodad said:

^^Every ingredient is here for you to understand why Trump's broad, un-targeted tariffs didn't do anything except hurt Americans--and why they're a bad idea going forward. You just have to draw the conclusion from the facts you already have. It'll hurt for a second, but get it over with like pulling off a band-aid.

 

I laid out the good and the bad. You only focus on the bad. Why?

[Hodad]

7 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

I laid out the good and the bad. You only focus on the bad. Why?

There is no "good" of an untargeted tariff with a major trading partner. It's nonsense policy. Just red meat for the base--who don't understand economics in the least. 

It's the economic version of doing something stupid just to "own the libs." The base wants to "own China" without realizing that they're just hurting themselves. 

A tariff should be a precision tool with deliberate and well understood effects. Protecting a fledgling domestic EV industry is a narrow, focused action. Trying to slap a 20% blanket tariff on imported goods (or 60% on goods from China!) is asinine. Truly stupid.

[gatomontes99]

4 minutes ago, Hodad said:

There is no "good" of an untargeted tariff with a major trading partner. It's nonsense policy. Just red meat for the base--who don't understand economics in the least. 

It's the economic version of doing something stupid just to "own the libs." The base wants to "own China" without realizing that they're just hurting themselves. 

A tariff should be a precision tool with deliberate and well understood effects. Protecting a fledgling domestic EV industry is a narrow, focused action. Trying to slap a 20% blanket tariff on imported goods (or 60% on goods from China!) is asinine. Truly stupid.

There is no such thing as an untargetted tariff. All tariffs (at a minimum) target imported goods. No one is proposing that broad of a tariff. At most, the tariffs are targetted at a country or a set of countries.

[User]

7 minutes ago, Hodad said:

There is no "good" of an untargeted tariff with a major trading partner. It's nonsense policy. Just red meat for the base--who don't understand economics in the least. 

It's the economic version of doing something stupid just to "own the libs." The base wants to "own China" without realizing that they're just hurting themselves. 

A tariff should be a precision tool with deliberate and well understood effects. Protecting a fledgling domestic EV industry is a narrow, focused action. Trying to slap a 20% blanket tariff on imported goods (or 60% on goods from China!) is asinine. Truly stupid.

There is no "good" of an untargeted tax increase with a major corporations. It's nonsense policy. Just red meat for the base--who don't understand economics in the least. 

It's the economic version of doing something stupid just to "own the conservatives." The base wants to "own corporations" without realizing that they're just hurting themselves. 

A corporate tax should be a precision tool with deliberate and well understood effects. Trying to slap a 20% blanket tax increase on corporations is asinine. Truly stupid.

 

[Rebound]

3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

All taxes are paid by the end user. I'm glad the left is finally acknowledging that.

What sets tariffs apart from taxes is that they are unequal between competing parties. If you have a US car manufacturer and...let's say...a Chinese car manufacturer and we place a tariff on the Chinese manufacturer, the Chinese manufacturer has an additional cost to the final consumer.

Now, we also need to talk about price elasticity when we talk about any tax (a tariff is a tax). The consumer will only pay a set amount for a given product. When the price is below that amount, the consumer readily buys the product. When the price is above that amount, the consumer is more hesitant.

With that in mind, if a tariff drives the cost to the manufacturer to an amount that is higher than the consumers' tolerance, the manufacturer will have to use less expensive materials, labor or shipping to be competitive. If the cost is increased to what other manufactuers' costs are, then they are now on at equal cost and price to consumer.

Since tariffs target foreign manufacturers, the domestic benefits are to domestic manufacturers, their employees and suppliers.

So, if we put a 100% tariff on Chinese made electric cars than domesticly produced electric cars would benefit. The reason we have to do that is that China takes money from their citizens to give to the manufacturer so that they have a competitive advantage. Further, China suppress wages and plays games with the value of the Yen to create even larger advantages.

This is why both Canada and the US put tariffs on Chinese made electric cars. Both countries did it with very liberal leaders taking up the cause. Blaming Trump or faulting Trump for championing that idea in 2016 and today is as hypocritical as it gets.

Biden already imposed a 100% tariff on Chinese electric cars.  So what’s your point? 
 

You aren’t paying attention to what’s been happening to profits and extreme wealth since Trump became President.  For all this “Boo Hoo, the economy is so bad!” nonsense… it DEFINITELY has not been bad for the stock market, for corporate profits, or for the wealthiest Americans. It’s been GREAT for them.  

Edited September 10 by Rebound

[Five of swords]

4 hours ago, Rebound said:

Trump’s tax plan is terrible for the average American.

A tariff is a tax paid by Americans on the products we buy.  A tariff of 20% means the computers, smartphones, clothing, and most other products you buy will cost 20% more.  China does not pay the tariff, the American taxpayer does. And it is a regressive tax because the poor pay the same rate as the rich.  So it’s great for the rich and sucks for the poor, especially when Trump’s planned tax cuts for the rich and Capitol gains tax cuts are added in. 
 

It’s just the little guy giving money to the rich guy in Trump’s America. Trump’s plan is terrible for most Americans, it’s extremely inflationary, and other nations will retaliate on our exports. 

This is why the study of economics can actually make you know less about economics.

 

Just no. Tariffs incentivize local production. That means wages are higher and prices for goods can in fact be made lower, because you don't have to waste money on transport 

 

Tariffs are simply better for a local business or worker. The only people who are theoretically harmed by it are multinational conglomerates. But even so, one could argue that it is still better for them because an economy without real production is unsustainable and has to collapse eventually.

Edited September 10 by Five of swords

[Hodad]

13 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

There is no such thing as an untargetted tariff. All tariffs (at a minimum) target imported goods. No one is proposing that broad of a tariff. At most, the tariffs are targetted at a country or a set of countries.

Oh, thank you for pointing out that tariffs are targeted at imported goods. 

Clearly, I should be more careful with my language. 

 

And yes, stupid Trump is touring the country stumping about his blanket 10-20% tariff on imports and 60% on imports from China.

[Rebound]

Just now, Five of swords said:

This is why the study of economics can actually make you know less about economics.

 

Just no. Tariffs incentivize local production. That means wages are higher and prices for goods can in fact be made lower, because you don't have to waste money on transport 

 

Tariffs are simply better for a local business or worker. The only people who are theoretically harmed by it are multinational conglomerates. But even so, one could argue that it is still better for them because an economy without real production is unsustainable and has to collapse eventually.

There are countless products which are no longer built in the U.S. and countless more U.S. products which use foreign-made components.  So even US made products will become more expensive with across the board tariffs.  

[Hodad]

2 minutes ago, Rebound said:

There are countless products which are no longer built in the U.S. and countless more U.S. products which use foreign-made components.  So even US made products will become more expensive with across the board tariffs.  

Right. Making T-shirts or cell phones 20% more expensive doesn't suddenly mean that there is a domestic replacement at a lower or comparable price point. It just means people--particularly poor people--are paying 20% more for their stuff. 

[Five of swords]

4 minutes ago, Rebound said:

There are countless products which are no longer built in the U.S. and countless more U.S. products which use foreign-made components.  So even US made products will become more expensive with across the board tariffs.  

That is exactly the problem that tariffs are meant to fix, lol.

 

There is no reason why 'countless products' need to be made out of the usa.

[Rebound]

1 minute ago, Five of swords said:

That is exactly the problem that tariffs are meant to fix, lol.

 

There is no reason why 'countless products' need to be made out of the usa.

You are way too uneducated to begin to understand how manufacturing supply chains work in this world.  
 

The result of these tariffs is that China and other nations will impose equal tariffs. Zero sum game, except for loads of economic disruption, supply chain nightmares and more taxes imposed on consumers.  

[Five of swords]

2 hours ago, Rebound said:

You are way too uneducated to begin to understand how manufacturing supply chains work in this world.  
 

The result of these tariffs is that China and other nations will impose equal tariffs. Zero sum game, except for loads of economic disruption, supply chain nightmares and more taxes imposed on consumers.  

If it is a zero sum game and they follow suit then you are admitting it gives an advantage...

[WestCanMan]

7 hours ago, Rebound said:

A tariff is a tax paid by Americans on the products we buy.  

You're so dumb lol. Do you actually not know when and why tariffs are used? 

[robosmith]

3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

There is no such thing as an untargetted tariff. All tariffs (at a minimum) target imported goods.

All tariffs are on imported goods BY DEFINITION. That is NOT what is meant by "targeted."

3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

No one is proposing that broad of a tariff. At most, the tariffs are targetted at a country or a set of countries.

Trump is proposing tariffs on ALL imported goods from China. 

Quote

What Are Trump’s Tariff Proposals?

When he was in office, Trump imposed several tariffs, including a 25% tariff on steel and a 10% tariff on aluminum imports from most countries.

Since then, Trump has expressed support for implementing additional tariffs. During his 2024 campaign, he proposed a 10% tax hike on all US imports and a 60% tariff on imports from China.

 

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You're so dumb lol. Do you actually not know when and why tariffs are used? 

Do you NOT know that is completely flexible and subject to the WHIMS of the POTUS? LMAO

[August1991]

8 hours ago, Rebound said:

Trump’s tax plan is terrible for the average American.

A tariff is a tax paid by Americans on the products we buy.  A tariff of 20% means the computers, smartphones, clothing, and most other products you buy will cost 20% more.  China does not pay the tariff, the American taxpayer does.

....

In Quebec, we have a tariff on maple syrup.

Do you Americans understand what Trump is doing?

[Hodad]

34 minutes ago, August1991 said:

In Quebec, we have a tariff on maple syrup.

Do you Americans understand what Trump is doing?

Yes. Saying crazy things to titillate a backward base that doesn't know any better. 

[gatomontes99]

Lmao...she's trying to goad him so she keeps looking at him. But she just ran train on 4 lies. Not one fact check from the lefty moderators.

 

[DUI_Offender]

9 hours ago, Rebound said:

Trump’s tax plan is terrible for the average American.

A tariff is a tax paid by Americans on the products we buy.  A tariff of 20% means the computers, smartphones, clothing, and most other products you buy will cost 20% more.  China does not pay the tariff, the American taxpayer does. And it is a regressive tax because the poor pay the same rate as the rich.  So it’s great for the rich and sucks for the poor, especially when Trump’s planned tax cuts for the rich and Capitol gains tax cuts are added in. 
 

It’s just the little guy giving money to the rich guy in Trump’s America. Trump’s plan is terrible for most Americans, it’s extremely inflationary, and other nations will retaliate on our exports. 

LOL.

Explaining it to the MAGA gang is hopeless. They do not understand how tariffs work.

It's obvious to just about anyone with an iota of business sense, that increasing tariffs on China and other countries will make the goods from China far more expensive, since the goods we have enjoyed from China will now have these dreaded tariffs on them. That will increase inflation even more, as working class families that went to places like WalMart, which carries a considerable amount of foreign cheap and affordable goods, will pay more.

In turn that means that families will ahve less disposable income for things like cars, entertainment, electronics (which ironically will be more expensive with said tariffs), etc. This will cause many companies to lose money and lay people off, which in turn, could trigger a recession.

We need less tariffs on goods, not more...

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

In Quebec, we have a tariff on maple syrup.

Do you Americans understand what Trump is doing?

We understand that what Trump is doing is lying continually.  
 

A Canadian maple syrup tariff protects domestic maple syrup from primarily American maple syrup.  
But that’s not the same as imposing a 20% tariff on iPhones and computers, which aren’t built in America. We don’t have those factories here.  
 

Joe Biden passed the CHIPS Act, to bring semiconductor manufacturing back to the US.  THEN maybe we add tariffs to protect those chips once they’re built here.  

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

Lmao...she's trying to goad him so she keeps looking at him. But she just ran train on 4 lies. Not one fact check from the lefty moderators.

 

They didn't have time to keep up with Trump's unending fire hose of lies.

But you don't care about those and prove it by citing 4 unspecified lies.