Crimes by Refugees

[Michael Hardner]

Can someone rational explain a real reason that this is a concern again, which means not including crass political gamesmanship.

Ignored Posters need not apply, ie. Don't post your fake violent horror stories meant to bleed hearts.  Thanks.

[herbie]

It is being claimed The Trump is going to use this point to attack Biden in the debates.
Nothing is too crass for the boor. No low is too low to stoop to.

[CITIZEN_2015]

I don't have statistics specific to crimes by refugees however, I believe refugees are mainly from violent societies or regions hit by violence, political upheaval and crimes. Sometimes they have to kill or steal in order to survive. They come here unchecked. Their background cannot or will not be checked. Some maybe former military commanders mass murdering for years and then escaped.

In summary some are from violent cultures or regions and this is the only way they know how to survive. They arrived in a civilized country with little penalties for crimes compared to what they used to or lived in before, 

[Moonlight Graham]

Poorer people with low incomes commit crime at a higher rate at the general population level.  This is true regardless of ethnicity, including poor white people born in North America.  Many refugees are poor with low incomes in western countries for various reasons (education, skills, including language skills).  Therefore, refugees (or their children etc) at the general level commit crime at higher rates than the general population.  Note:  not all refugees are uneducated or commit crime, and therefore shouldn't all be stereotyped as such.

The areas of highest crime and violence in my city tend are the poorer areas, dominated by low income immigrants, including many refugees.  Certain areas of my city have become less safe because of this.  Anecdotally, I have witnessed some of this violence first-hand, including 2 gun murders and 1 attempted murder.  I never saw this in the same city growing up.  As a citizen this concerns me.  There seems to be similar problems with some refugees in other western countries.

I have little knowledge of certain stories recently circulated in the media so I can't comment there.  But i'm also not interested in ignoring discussing a problem in the name of humanitarianism or because it offends some people.  Issues can't be addressed by ignoring them.

[Moonlight Graham]

5 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I don't have statistics specific to crimes by refugees however, I believe refugees are mainly from violent societies or regions hit by violence, political upheaval and crimes. Sometimes they have to kill or steal in order to survive. They come here unchecked. Their background cannot or will not be checked. Some maybe former military commanders mass murdering for years and then escaped.

In summary some are from violent cultures or regions and this is the only way they know how to survive. They arrived in a civilized country with little penalties for crimes compared to what they used to or lived in before, 

Some of this does have to do with countries/cultures/conditions people come from and lived within.  These learned adaptations aren't automatically deleted when they cross an invisible line.  Countries that are less stable and have weaker rule of law and political institutions tend to be poorer and more violent. 

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 Countries that are less stable and have weaker rule of law and political institutions tend to be poorer and more violent. 

And they seem to lie low when they are living without legal status.

11 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Poorer people with low incomes commit crime at a higher rate at the general population level.  This is true regardless of ethnicity, including poor white people born in North America.  Many refugees are poor with low incomes in western countries for various reasons (education, skills, including language skills).  Therefore, refugees (or their children etc) at the general level commit crime at higher rates than the general population.  Note:  not all refugees are uneducated or commit crime, and therefore shouldn't all be stereotyped as such.

The areas of highest crime and violence in my city tend are the poorer areas, dominated by low income immigrants, including many refugees.  Certain areas of my city have become less safe because of this.  Anecdotally, I have witnessed some of this violence first-hand, including 2 gun murders and 1 attempted murder.  I never saw this in the same city growing up.  As a citizen this concerns me.  There seems to be similar problems with some refugees in other western countries.

I have little knowledge of certain stories recently circulated in the media so I can't comment there.  But i'm also not interested in ignoring discussing a problem in the name of humanitarianism or because it offends some people.  Issues can't be addressed by ignoring them.

I posted a study recently that showed that immigrants have a lower crime rate.  And there seems to be only political reasons behind this.

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

I posted a study recently that showed that immigrants have a lower crime rate.  And there seems to be only political reasons behind this.

Of course immigrants have lower crimes rate. They passed through point system to qualify based on education, investment, adoptability, etc. They also go through a background check. I thought you were asking about refugees as per title of your thread.

[Michael Hardner]

19 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Of course immigrants have lower crimes rate. They passed through point system to qualify based on education, investment, adoptability, etc. They also go through a background check. I thought you were asking about refugees as per title of your thread.

The study covered both.  I'll look it up soon...

[herbie]

Why the people who've made up their minds have made up their minds forever. It's the new reality.

Give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll beat you to a pulp for showing him up.

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And they seem to lie low when they are living without legal status.

I posted a study recently that showed that immigrants have a lower crime rate.  And there seems to be only political reasons behind this.

Overall that very well may be true.  Certain classes of immigrants are brought in for your their education and skills, others aren't screened for that for humanitarian reasons.  We can't stereotype "immigrants" economically or in terms of crime because there's a huge range there.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

We can't stereotype "immigrants" economically or in terms of crime because there's a huge range there.

On this we agree.

[User]

23 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Can someone rational explain a real reason that this is a concern again, which means not including crass political gamesmanship.

Ignored Posters need not apply, ie. Don't post your fake violent horror stories meant to bleed hearts.  Thanks.

It seems you are conflating things here. You asked about refugees, but then the discussion turned to immigrants, and it seems you started this thread because I brought up illegal immigrants. 

 

 

[ironstone]

So do progressives not want crimes that are committed by refugees to be reported at all?

Do you want those criminals to be treated more leniently? Maybe Germany is the place to go.

 

[Michael Hardner]

22 hours ago, User said:

It seems you are conflating things here. You asked about refugees, but then the discussion turned to immigrants, and it seems you started this thread because I brought up illegal immigrants. 

Maybe.  I think the study I posted was about "immigrants" documented and undocumented.  The latter are called "illegal".

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Maybe.  I think the study I posted was about "immigrants" documented and undocumented.  The latter are called "illegal".

We desperately need to do better at screening both.

Michael Higgins: Trudeau ensured influence of IRGC will be felt in Canada for decades (msn.com)

She said a “lax immigration” system had allowed IRGC members, their families as well as Iranian officials, from the very top to mid-level, to get visas to Canada and establish themselves here.  

Six years of inaction has allowed the IRGC to “spread their tentacles in Canada. Their numbers have increased. Their influence has increased. We are going to feel that influence and the impact of them being in Canada and within our systems and institutions for decades to come.  

“This process of IRGC spreading its influence throughout the Western world has been going on for a very long time, unfortunately, and they have been able to infiltrate many of our academic institutions, our professional institutions and they have been money laundering.

“It’s influencing the political and the social landscape of Canada. It’s influencing the youth and mobilizing them against Western values, against Canadian security, in very subtle way and sometimes in very overt ways,” said Shahriari, co-founder of StopIRGC, a group of lawyers and volunteers dedicated to uncovering the extent of Iranian influence.  

 

All this has allowed the agents of China and Iran (I would add Hamas supporters.) to work against Canadian interests, to undermine our way of life and to subvert society. This is a betrayal of Canada and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau must bear responsibility for failing to crackdown on those who seek to destroy the values we cherish.  

“This is not who we are,” is a constant refrain from Trudeau.  

Well, who are we? What are we? What are our values? Why do we hold these values dear? And will those values be the same in ten or twenty years when the influence of the Chinese and Iranian (and Hamas supporters.) agents have permeated all aspects of Canada?  

To act like this shouldn't be a concern to Canadians and implying that anyone concerned is racist, is not a good look, MH.

[Michael Hardner]

Here's the study 

 

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

[Goddess]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Here's the study 

 

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

Thanks for finding it again.  I'll read it more when I have time.

 But I notice its the US, from 4 years ago and features Texas.

Texas might have some things to add to your study these days, in case you hadn't noticed the border situation down there lately.

[Michael Hardner]

22 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Texas might have some things to add to your study these days, in case you hadn't noticed the border situation down there lately.

Who though ?  Politicians ?  Because... well they're not trustworthy.  They don't show their work...

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Who though ?  Politicians ?  Because... well they're not trustworthy.  They don't show their work...

I think part of the problem is that it's not politicians - the ones creating border/immigration policy - that have to live with the every day consequences of the decisions they make.  And the decisions they make in regard to these things are based on politics/votes, rather than concern for the country or its citizens.

Media amplifies whatever politicians want them to.

Ask the citizenry how it's working out.

Our gov't ignores cries from the citizenry about the effects of mass immigration on housing, healthcare, the economy....until they were tanking in the polls.

I predict what's happening in Ireland and other EU countries, could very happen here soon.

 

[Yakuda]

On 6/22/2024 at 4:59 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Can someone rational explain a real reason that this is a concern again, which means not including crass political gamesmanship.

Ignored Posters need not apply, ie. Don't post your fake violent horror stories meant to bleed hearts.  Thanks.

By "refugees" do you mean illegals? If you can't tell the 2 apart then "someone rational" would be wasting their time trying to explain anything to you. 

Edited October 21, 2024 by Yakuda

[TreeBeard]

Crimes by migrants are less frequent than crimes by citizens. 
 

An increase immigration correlated to a drop in property crime. 
 

First, new immigrants do not have a significant impact on the property crime rate, but with time spent in Canada, a 10% increase in the recent-immigrant share or established-immigrant share decreases the property crime rate by 2% to 3%. Neither underreporting to police nor the dilution of the criminal pool by the addition of law-abiding immigrants can fully explain the size of the estimates. This suggests that immigration has a spillover effect, such as changing neighbourhood characteristics, which reduces crime rates in the long run.
https://crdcn.ca/publication/immigration-and-crime-evidence-from-canada/