FOREIGN INTERFERENCE ALLEGED IN CONSERVATIVE RACES. The Canadian Media Starts To Do Its Job

[ExFlyer]

16 minutes ago, Venandi said:

You and many others. 

If you are bound by rules in the act and thus unable to comment as journalist, politician or whatever then all discussion ends. Really, you've answered your own question and made my point in the process.

I want political leaders asking questions, I want journalists asking questions and seeking answers. I want them to ask the same questions I would ask if I had the venue to do it.

And that's why I don't want them read in.

Simple eh?

 

I did not ask a question, just repsonded what the security clearance rules are.

For sure questions should be asked but, I hope you understand the need for security of documents and information.

If they are not read in because they do not want the clearance, then they also know what the clearance is about and know why they don't get answers. Being read in also makes them n[more informed and knowledgeable and wiser and qualified to run the country. Remaing uninformed and ignorant only makes them look....uninformed and ignorant.

 

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Being read in also makes them n[more informed and knowledgeable and wiser and qualified to run the country

But they are the opposition. They don't run the country. Their job is to publicly hold the people who do run the country to account.

They cannot do that if they are muzzled.

It's one thing for Jagmeet, he is not the opposition party and he is currently propping up the government. So for him to know whether or not continuing that relationship is valid and prioritizing that over being muzzled makes sense.

But you are literally suggesting that the best course of action for the opposition is to not do its job.

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But they are the opposition. They don't run the country. Their job is to publicly hold the people who do run the country to account.

They cannot do that if they are muzzled.

It's one thing for Jagmeet, he is not the opposition party and he is currently propping up the government. So for him to know whether or not continuing that relationship is valid and prioritizing that over being muzzled makes sense.

But you are literally suggesting that the best course of action for the opposition is to not do its job.

They aspire to run the country. that aspiration should make them want to be in the know.

They are muzzling themselves...by not getting information they are entitled to.

As for jagneet, to me he is the biggest loser on the hill and he just pops up to keep himself in the news. he is an absolute zero from the leadership perspective.

I said, "Being read in also makes them more informed and knowledgeable and wiser and qualified to run the country " regardless how you wish to twist things, is that to be effective, ya gotta know what is going on and not just being a complainer. Remaining ignorant of situations and uniformed only makes a joke of your leadership potential.

 

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

They aspire to run the country. that aspiration should make them want to be in the know.

 

That is rediculous.  When they do run the country they'll know anyway, but in the meantime their job is to hold those who do run the country to account. 

Suggesting they shouldn't do their job now because they'd like a different job someday is not a reasonable position. 

Quote

They are muzzling themselves...by not getting information they are entitled to.

No, as it is they can still speak out and demand answers and not let the issue die. That's their job.  If they are forced to shut up, this all goes away which is just what justin wants. 

Quote

As for jagneet, to me he is the biggest loser on the hill and he just pops up to keep himself in the news. he is an absolute zero from the leadership perspective.

Agreed, but he does have to put on appearances.

Quote

I said, "Being read in also makes them more informed and knowledgeable and wiser and qualified to run the country "

And i correctly pointed out they don't. They are the loyal OPPOSITION.  Not the loyal  "get muzzled and shut up about it".

Quote

regardless how you wish to twist things, is that to be effective, ya gotta know what is going on and not just being a complainer. Remaining ignorant of situations and uniformed only makes a joke of your leadership potential.

Complete and utter horseshit 

To be effective you have to have the freedom to speak, the freedom to ask questions, the freedom to demand more answers.  

Giving that up just makes you a liberal lapdog. 

[CdnFox]

Trudeau won’t say if Liberal MPs allegedly conspired with foreign states - National | Globalnews.ca

Trudeau won’t say if Liberal MPs allegedly conspired with foreign states

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau would not say if current members of the Liberal caucus are named in a classified version of a stunning national security report that alleges some parliamentarians are either “semi-witting or witting” participants in foreign interference efforts.

 

If PP had read the reports, he would know the answer.  BUT - HE WOULDN"T BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IT.

As it is, he can ask questions, demand answers, if there's an election he can bring it up and hold both the libs and the ndp to account for not telling the public, he can speculate, he can do all kinds of things.  

That's how it works. 

[blackbird]

On 6/13/2024 at 2:18 PM, herbie said:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-conservative-mp-bob-saroya-took-trip-to-china-paid-for-by-communist/

 

"MPs of all political stripes accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of free travel last year, and many of those trips were bankrolled by entities with ties to foreign governments.

House of Commons Ethics Commissioner Mario Dion released his annual report Tuesday. It documents sponsored travel undertaken by 73 MPs — more than a fifth of all members — to foreign locales and a handful of Canadian destinations, paid for either wholly or in part by third-party groups."

Canadian MPs accepted $620K worth of free travel from third parties, foreign entities in 2017 | CBC News

[Moonbox]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

As i previously demonstrated its not even remotely the same

You didn't demonstrate anything.  You just sort of puked on yourself and then declared you were right, which is all you ever really do here.  

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But he didn't. He said justin isn't doing enough to defend canada. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ndps-jagmeet-singh-says-classified-version-of-foreign-interference/

Singh says report shows some MPs are ‘traitors to the country,’ accuses Trudeau of accepting foreign interference

Way to make a fool out of yourself again.  👍

[herbie]

On 6/14/2024 at 11:24 AM, Moonbox said:

Don't get the briefing, you can run your mouth, openly speculate and lob vague accusations to your heart's content.

But, but he even admitted that's why. Whereas Jag saw it and can't say who they are. But he can sure crow about going after the guilty, knowing none are from his clan.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You didn't demonstrate anything. 

Of course I did. But as usual you're going to insist that 100 - 50 doesn't equal 50. But I made it quite obviously clear with reason and logic that just because someone is not willing to take an unnecessary risk that doesn't mean he's not reliable

 Ye/

Quote

Singh says report shows some MPs are ‘traitors to the country,’ accuses Trudeau of accepting foreign interference

Which ones? What did they do? What specifically were the allegations? How badly should Canadians be worried based on the specific facts? What parties are they with specifically? Did any of them receive any warnings or any other indication that there was an issue?

He can't ask any of that. He knows the answer to a lot of it but he can't say it and he can't ask about it

You just proved my point. It's an odd thing with you, the longer our conversations go on the more that the chance of you proving yourself wrong and me right approaches one to one

[Moonbox]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You just proved my point

No, I proved that you were full of shit again, with a 10 second Google Search:

"Singh says report shows some MPs are ‘traitors to the country,’ accuses Trudeau of accepting foreign interference"

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, paradox34 said:

What's important is that our entire election system is vulnerable to outside manipulation.

Only because lobbyists are allowed to influence MP's in secret. Our whole system of government has been vulnerable to this forever.

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

No, I proved that you were full of shit again, with a 10 second Google Search:

Really! Well answer those questions i asked then!  If i'm wrong then he must have discussed them!  So lets hear them  

No?  Nothing? None of them? 

You mean he's not allowed to talk bout them? On NOES!!!! You were wrong again!!!! LOL!

Gotcha kiddo  

i dont know why you insist on looking stupid but hey, i'm not here to judge. 

IN any case PP doesn't want to be muzzled like that, and any one with a brain can see why. Jaggers isn't able to even ask questions about it any more. 

[Venandi]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

IN any case PP doesn't want to be muzzled like that, and any one with a brain can see why. Jaggers isn't able to even ask questions about it any more. 

It's not a difficult concept to hoist aboard, since there's no brain deficit at play here IMO (making up spin like that takes effort and creativity) it's simply partisan posturing.

Being in a national leadership role and not knowing the details is an unfortunate byproduct of the docket classification, but being read in extinguishes any possibility of holding the government to account or commenting on the nature of the alleged offences...that's his job, and it used to be the job of the media too. 

Saying things already in the public domain via open source reports/opinion columns and CSIS itself hardly qualifies as a security breach, and if Jag were challenged on it that's exactly what he would say. Ironically, were that to happen, it's  also what the people currently talking nonsense would default to as well. 

I don't even see the point of trying to make the point. If folks here are asserting that he broke the law then having him arrested, charged and jailed is the next logical step and they (themselves) should be demanding it. 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2024 by Venandi

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, Venandi said:

It's not a difficult concept to hoist aboard, since there's no brain deficit at play here IMO (making up spin like that takes effort and creativity) it's simply partisan posturing.

Being in a national leadership role and not knowing the details is an unfortunate byproduct of the docket classification, but being read in extinguishes any possibility of holding the government to account or commenting on the nature of the alleged offences...that's his job, and it used to be the job of the media too. 

Saying things already in the public domain via open source reports/opinion columns and CSIS itself hardly qualifies as a security breach, and if Jag were challenged on it that's exactly what he would say. Ironically, were that to happen, it's  also what the people currently talking nonsense would default to as well. 

I don't even see the point of trying to make the point. If folks here are asserting that he broke the law then having him arrested, charged and jailed is the next logical step and they (themselves) should be demanding it. 

For sure.

Jagmeet is in a weird position because while he is not the official opposition, he is the opposition. But he is also the government, having worked out a supply agreement with them to continue their governance based on their fulfillment of certain NDP policy. He's like Schrodinger's commie,  both the gov't and not the gov't at the same time and is only one or the other when he thinks someone's actually observing him  

but Poilievre has to maintain his ability to demand answers to questions and to demand that these answers be made public.

And you are correct, it does not require rocket science to figure this out Those complaining here are simply Liberal apologists who don't like the fact that they're favorite party doesn't look so good with regards to this

 

 

[ExFlyer]

OK,  things will get sorted out now. Trudeau has concerns. 🫠🤫

"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he has concerns about some of the findings of a foreign interference report from one of Canada's intelligence oversight bodies.

But he did not specify the exact nature of his concerns.

"There are a number of the conclusions of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians report that we don't entirely align with," Trudeau told reporters Sunday at the end of the Ukraine Peace Summit in Switzerland, without addressing which conclusions raised concerns."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/trudeau-says-he-has-concerns-about-some-findings-of-foreign-interference-report/ar-BB1okfQW?cvid=e595c4e1ea0e49fff63e3f63ce1726ef&ei=9

Edited June 16, 2024 by ExFlyer

[Moonbox]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Really! Well answer those questions i asked then!  If i'm wrong then he must have discussed them!

You're wrong because Jagger cried foul about treason, and you said he didn't.  Yet another clueless quick-take by our resident know-nothing.  🤡

 

 

Edited June 16, 2024 by Moonbox

[herbie]

As if compromising 170 MPs was easier and cheaper than a war room of media trolls on FB and X and Instagram at Bangla Desh wages.
Let them investigate and if any were truly acting for foreign interests, publicly sack them. They might even find one that was.

[Moonbox]

On 6/15/2024 at 2:21 PM, CdnFox said:

That is rediculous.  When they do run the country they'll know anyway, but in the meantime their job is to hold those who do run the country to account. 

You're holding the government to account by not even knowing what you're holding them to account for? 

It's like you're auditioning to be Pierre Poilievre's fluffer or something.  🤣

[CdnFox]

7 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

OK,  things will get sorted out now. Trudeau has concerns. 🫠🤫

"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he has concerns about some of the findings of a foreign interference report from one of Canada's intelligence oversight bodies.

But he did not specify the exact nature of his concerns.

"There are a number of the conclusions of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians report that we don't entirely align with," Trudeau told reporters Sunday at the end of the Ukraine Peace Summit in Switzerland, without addressing which conclusions raised concerns."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/trudeau-says-he-has-concerns-about-some-findings-of-foreign-interference-report/ar-BB1okfQW?cvid=e595c4e1ea0e49fff63e3f63ce1726ef&ei=9

WE'RE SAVED!!!!  Right!?!   Guys?  We're saved right guys???  Why are you looking at me like that....

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You're wrong because Jagger cried foul about treason, and you said he didn't. 

 

It was already reported long before jaggers opened his mouth and i said it was bad then.  The newspapers were reporting it before Jaggers said a word. 

Canada’s Parliament rocked by allegations of treason - POLITICO

He hasn't said anything we didn't already know. So repeating something that's in the public domain is fair - but Polievre ALSO ALREADY knew that.  And he knows it without signing anything  

Now - how about you explain why Jaggers didn't tell us the name of the people involved?   Why didn't ask questions about them in the house? Why is he not pushing the libs on details?  I mean - he knows what happened right? This is about good governance right? 

Why couldn't you answer my simple question?

Utter fail on your part kiddo.  All you've done yet again is prove my point. Sigh, 

I suspect we're about at your hissy fit stage where you will try to twist the defintion of something to side track the conversation from your obvious failure, and then eventually you'll claim your error was my fault because i post too much and follow me around yapping like a puppy on other subjects.  IF we could avoid that for once that'd be great but history doesn't give me much hope   

[Venandi]

Given the current security classification of the investigation and source documents, if you are trying to get to the bottom of this and hold individuals (and the government) accountable, then there's a simple choice to be made.

Either you attempt to reverse engineer known facts already in the public domain and thus are essentially

10 hours ago, Moonbox said:

 holding the government to account by not even knowing what you're holding them to account for? 

Or you know exactly what happened and exactly what they did but not only can't you hold them accountable, you can't even say a word about it.

If you see knowing the unreacted details as a simple function of leadership within a national party then you probably want PP read in. If you want him silenced you do too.

if you want the opposition party to hold the governing liberals to account in a public manner then you don't. There's no other available options here.

Personally, I want the opposition party to hold the liberals accountable and to ask the questions I would ask if I had the venue to ask them. That's especially true now that we have little in the way of media types actually doing that. 

15 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You're wrong because Jagger cried foul about treason, and you said he didn't.  Yet another clueless quick-take by our resident know-nothing.  🤡

Parroting things widely circulated in open source reports isn't a breach, but since you seem to be asserting that it is, are you also suggesting that Jag be charged?

If you aren't, how do you square that circle? 

Edited June 17, 2024 by Venandi

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Venandi said:

Given the current security classification of the investigation and source documents, if you are trying to get to the bottom of this and hold individuals (and the government) accountable, then there's a simple choice to be made.

Either you attempt to reverse engineer known facts already in the public domain and thus are essentially

Or you know exactly what happened and exactly what they did but not only can't you hold them accountable, you can't even say a word about it.

If you see knowing the unreacted details as a simple function of leadership within a national party then you probably want PP read in. If you want him silenced you do too.

if you want the opposition party to hold the governing liberals to account in a public manner then you don't. There's no other available options here.

Personally, I want the opposition party to hold the liberals accountable and to ask the questions I would ask if I had the venue to ask them. That's especially true now that we have little in the way of media types actually doing that. 

Parroting things widely circulated in open source reports isn't a breach, but since you seem to be asserting that it is, are you also suggesting that Jag be charged?

If you aren't, how do you square that circle? 

I think the only people who don't want to see the liberals held accountable are probably liberal supporters. Everyone else gets it. 

I do note that the first polling since justin really pushed the idea that PP is dishonest for not reading the report is out.  Ledger just released it.  20 point lead for the cpc, trudeau dropoed to his lowest since before 2015's election, 22 percent. 

Moonbat  can dance all he likes but at the end of the day Poilievre is doing his job and Justin isn't.

[Army Guy]

On 6/15/2024 at 9:24 AM, ExFlyer said:

The key is "being read in" and in order to be read in, you need to sign and abide by the Security Act.

If political leaders refuse to get cleared, that is, in my opinion, being a very poor leader. Not knowing or being able to see national documents that are secret makes them very poor leaders. You cannot presume to lead if you refuse to see or read documents that affect Canada.

As I have said previously, I had top secret clearance when I was in the military and I will forever be obliged and bound by the rules in the act.

I think that in this case being read in , only pertains to these two reports, by no means does it mean the entire file....just these two documents...So there is no way your getting the entire picture just a snapshot. Of what the liberal government wants to show...it has already been mentioned that there are thousands of documents still left out of the picture...

I know someone mention that if read in he could not fire a MP or identify an MP that was accused in these reports or take other actions...Liberal government has said the matter is under investigation by RCMP, and i'm sure if they find the evidence to charge someone they would do that..." yes hell would freeze over if a politician got charged with anything", once charged and convicted of a crime , can they still hold their seat ? or can party leaders fire them? Can the hold their seat while in prison ? not sure on any of those questions....That being said the part of the excuse where the party leader could not take take some sort of action would be a moot point, RCMP would look after the criminal part...

As for not being able to talk about it, i think mr sing has done that dance all around the edges of the grey zone...i don't think he really knows what he can say of not say...It won't be long before something or someone says or leaks something like the names, and this story gets bigger...Politicians are not very good at keeping secrets...   

[CrazyCanuck89]

On 6/13/2024 at 5:55 PM, CdnFox said:

no, there shouldn't have been any more than we're allowed. And that really wouldn't be how a foreign party would interfere.

Poilievre won't sign off on the report because doing so would severely limit his ability to comment on it in the future. His position is that it should be open for everybody to see. Certainly when he becomes prime minister he can see it without having to sign those documents and if the liberals haven't taken action he can at that point but if he signs it now he is limited as to what he can talk about later

Is that the interference will turn out to be key staff members who were supposed to be volunteers being paid agents of the Chinese. This is a pretty common game they play, and then that person controls what information the candidate winds up seeing and influences their votes later on.

But we deserve to know the level of interference, and who the names are. If a conservative conspired with a foreign government Or took money inappropriately they should be out of caucus

He's going to need to get it if he becomes PM.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, CrazyCanuck89 said:

He's going to need to get it if he becomes PM.

He'll get it anyway at that point as part of becoming PM, but it's not the PM's job to hold the PM to account and ask questions of the pm. That job belongs to the official opposition. Which is why at the moment he's not interested in signing away his right to ask questions and hold the government to account.

When the time comes it will be someone else holding him to account and they will want to ask the questions and demand answers and he will have to decide what his response will be. Hopefully it will be to take a lot more action on this issue than Trudeau is who has done nothing despite knowing about this for years